The Romulan Republic wrote:I suspect that their's a measure of denialism going. That its easier to rationalize away what Trump said than to admit that they may have just spent the last year and a half, in some cases, supporting a rapist for President.
Or maybe I'm giving them too much credit, and they just that think rape is okay.
Bet you a dollar there are Democrats who on some level believe that they know the rape accusations against Bill Clinton are true... and aren't utterly crushed with remorse for having supported him. It's not that they think rape is cool, it's that the human brain is good at cognitive dissonance.
FireNexus wrote:"With the exception of cheating Bernie out of the nom, Dems have always proven to be far more loyal to each other than Republicans!"
Holy shit. He's doing it. He's going to war with the GOP. With their most loyal voting bloc as soldiers. SQUEEEEEEEEE!
The tea-flavored wing of the right is now playing the monster to the Republican Party's Dr. Frankenstein, with Donald Trump cast as the monster's brain.
I'd feel sorry for the monster, if said monster weren't such a jerk.
Hell, I'd say their's a less than negligible chance that Bill Clinton is guilty, and I'd still (grudgingly, bitterly) vote for him over Trump or his like.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver
"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.
I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
It does bring up a serious question as to what part he's going to play in Hillary's administration, if any. This is one of the problematic things about electing Hillary-- she brings some baggage to the position, including Slick Willy.
It would almost be easier if she quietly divorced him shortly before taking office, but *that* would create quite a flap in and of itself. I don't think there have been any single Presidents apart from Buchanan.
The tea-flavored wing of the right is now playing the monster to the Republican Party's Dr. Frankenstein, with Donald Trump cast as the monster's brain.
I'd feel sorry for the monster, if said monster weren't such a jerk.
Reminds me of this piece.
And it might be getting even worse (for the Republican Party at least).
The rest of the party could try distancing themselves from him, but with only about a month to go until the general election it might be too late, just like the article said. And of course there's the party base. The base overall wants him, and Republicans abandoning him are going to look "impure" to them. We'll know for sure how this plays out after the general election.
Seeing current events as they are is wrecking me emotionally. So I say 'farewell' to this forum. For anyone who wonders.
Elheru Aran wrote:It does bring up a serious question as to what part he's going to play in Hillary's administration, if any. This is one of the problematic things about electing Hillary-- she brings some baggage to the position, including Slick Willy.
It would almost be easier if she quietly divorced him shortly before taking office, but *that* would create quite a flap in and of itself. I don't think there have been any single Presidents apart from Buchanan.
Jefferson, off the top of my head.
His wife died very young, and his First Lady was his daughter.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver
"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.
I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
Elheru Aran wrote:It does bring up a serious question as to what part he's going to play in Hillary's administration, if any. This is one of the problematic things about electing Hillary-- she brings some baggage to the position, including Slick Willy.
It would almost be easier if she quietly divorced him shortly before taking office, but *that* would create quite a flap in and of itself. I don't think there have been any single Presidents apart from Buchanan.
Jefferson, off the top of my head.
His wife died very young, and his First Lady was his daughter.
Ah, point. However that was long enough ago that it counts as different times, surely? These days an unmarried President is basically unheard-of. It would be particularly unusual as Hillary was IIRC (after all I was only a kid at the time) an exceptionally active First Lady, and one would expect Bill to be similarly active in promoting their pet projects now that the roles are reversed... but on the other hand she might not want him to be as visible as she was, for fear of it looking like he's running the show.
Here's a hint: If you're going to attempt to instigate infighting via deception, don't announce that that's what you're doing on a publicly viewable forum.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver
"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.
I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
Elheru Aran wrote:It does bring up a serious question as to what part he's going to play in Hillary's administration, if any. This is one of the problematic things about electing Hillary-- she brings some baggage to the position, including Slick Willy.
It would almost be easier if she quietly divorced him shortly before taking office, but *that* would create quite a flap in and of itself. I don't think there have been any single Presidents apart from Buchanan.
That's dumb as hell. "Quietly divorce" Bill Clinton? How would that work?
Simon_Jester wrote:
The Romulan Republic wrote:I suspect that their's a measure of denialism going. That its easier to rationalize away what Trump said than to admit that they may have just spent the last year and a half, in some cases, supporting a rapist for President.
Or maybe I'm giving them too much credit, and they just that think rape is okay.
Bet you a dollar there are Democrats who on some level believe that they know the rape accusations against Bill Clinton are true... and aren't utterly crushed with remorse for having supported him. It's not that they think rape is cool, it's that the human brain is good at cognitive dissonance.
Bill's personal life, and political for that matter, is becoming much darker for me as the years go by. The Juanita Broaderick stuff is real tough for me to grapple with, and Clinton could certainly be called a predator. At the same time, I think he's a good example of just how gross the sexual culture of the 1970's-90's could get. Look at the people who went after Clinton for Lewinsky - practically every one of the top Republicans in the House was guilty/accused of some sort of sexual misconduct or had an affair. Gingrich was having an affair at the time he was going after Clinton. Tom DeLay was such an inveterate pussyhound that people called him "Hot Tub Tom." Denny Hastert turned out to be a child molester. So I don't know what to do with this.
What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun.
The Romulan Republic wrote:Here's a hint: If you're going to attempt to instigate infighting via deception, don't announce that that's what you're doing on a publicly viewable forum.
Because Trump, as we know, is an avid viewer of ancient SF boards
Last edited by Iroscato on 2016-10-11 02:07pm, edited 1 time in total.
Yeah, I've always taken the subtext of the Birther movement to be, "The rules don't count here! This is different! HE'S BLACK! BLACK, I SAY! ARE YOU ALL BLIND!?
- Raw Shark
Destiny and fate are for those too weak to forge their own futures. Where we are 'supposed' to be is irrelevent.
The Romulan Republic wrote:Here's a hint: If you're going to attempt to instigate infighting via deception, don't announce that that's what you're doing on a publicly viewable forum.
Here's a hint: Donald Trump is way too much of a delusional narcissist to check. He's routinely retweeted sarcastic compliments made by people who hate him. If it's going to work at all, my announcement of that will do nothing to stop it. And really, do you think the deplorables themselves are introspective enough to care anyway?
I had a Bill Maher quote here. But fuck him for his white privelegy "joke".
The Romulan Republic wrote:Here's a hint: If you're going to attempt to instigate infighting via deception, don't announce that that's what you're doing on a publicly viewable forum.
Because Trump, as we know, is an avid viewer of ancient SF boards
Of course I don't imagine that Trump reads this forum. Its not about him, after all.
But some of his supporters who might otherwise be deceived might.
I just find it odd to announce that you're engaging in a political deception.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver
"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.
I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
It really isn't deception. It's posing an idea relatively transparently in hopes he or they are such assholes that they don't care. As hopes go, it's not terribly out there.
I had a Bill Maher quote here. But fuck him for his white privelegy "joke".
Well, I doubt the Donald needs much encouragement to go that route, in any case.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver
"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.
I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
Elheru Aran wrote:It does bring up a serious question as to what part he's going to play in Hillary's administration, if any. This is one of the problematic things about electing Hillary-- she brings some baggage to the position, including Slick Willy.
It would almost be easier if she quietly divorced him shortly before taking office, but *that* would create quite a flap in and of itself. I don't think there have been any single Presidents apart from Buchanan.
That's dumb as hell. "Quietly divorce" Bill Clinton? How would that work?
Reading comprehension much? 'that would create quite a flap in and of itself'. Granted the sentence (and thought) was poorly constructed, but I acknowledged it wouldn't happen quietly.
It's a bit of mischief at best, a hypothetical one at that. I don't think FN is expecting to single-handedly take down the GOP with a hashtag (though if you do manage it, I'll make a point to never, ever get on your bad side O.o )
Yeah, I've always taken the subtext of the Birther movement to be, "The rules don't count here! This is different! HE'S BLACK! BLACK, I SAY! ARE YOU ALL BLIND!?
- Raw Shark
Destiny and fate are for those too weak to forge their own futures. Where we are 'supposed' to be is irrelevent.
Wouldn't that make you Emperor of the Internet or something?
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver
"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.
I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
It does seem to be slowly expanding after my Reddit comment on it. The way these things go it'll probably Peter out. I'd need somebody with a lot of followers to RT it. Preferably some Trumpkin. But man, that would be awesome.
I don't expect it, but it's like buying a lottery ticket. When the jackpot's big enough, you imagine what you'd do with the money.
I had a Bill Maher quote here. But fuck him for his white privelegy "joke".
The Romulan Republic wrote:Well, I doubt the Donald needs much encouragement to go that route, in any case.
The encouragement is to burn the party as a whole, rather than get vengeance against particular actors. I want to convince him and his, such that I expect to accomplish anything, that the best way to get back at the establishment is to burn down what they have established.
I had a Bill Maher quote here. But fuck him for his white privelegy "joke".
The Romulan Republic wrote:Hell, I'd say their's a less than negligible chance that Bill Clinton is guilty, and I'd still (grudgingly, bitterly) vote for him over Trump or his like.
Elheru Aran wrote:It does bring up a serious question as to what part he's going to play in Hillary's administration, if any. This is one of the problematic things about electing Hillary-- she brings some baggage to the position, including Slick Willy.
It would almost be easier if she quietly divorced him shortly before taking office, but *that* would create quite a flap in and of itself. I don't think there have been any single Presidents apart from Buchanan.
Nobody worth paying any attention could possibly blame Hillary for having divorced Bill Clinton at any point in the past twenty years.
That said... There is considerable doubt over Clinton's guilt. As Alyrium noted a few days ago, the accusations against him were made twenty years ago, and the alleged crime took place twenty years before that. It would be extremely difficult to mount an effective defense against the allegations at this late date, and it would be equally difficult to prove the allegations.
This is an extremely good example of the basic paradox associated with rape charges. On the one hand, false accusations are extremely rare; on the other hand, "innocent until proven guilty" IS a value our society normally holds to.
Oh, I agree with innocent until proven guilty as a principle. I don't think Bill should face any legal consequences without proof, and I wouldn't even go so far as to say that he is guilty.
But it wouldn't surprise me if he is either, and I must point out that simply having been made a long time ago, while it does make the accusation hard to prove, does not make it false, or even less likely.
It just means that we'll likely never know.
Edit: And while I can't really blame Hillary for not divorcing Bill, I actually would have admired her if she had.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver
"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.
I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
Simon_Jester wrote:Nobody worth paying any attention could possibly blame Hillary for having divorced Bill Clinton at any point in the past twenty years.
That said... There is considerable doubt over Clinton's guilt. As Alyrium noted a few days ago, the accusations against him were made twenty years ago, and the alleged crime took place twenty years before that. It would be extremely difficult to mount an effective defense against the allegations at this late date, and it would be equally difficult to prove the allegations.
This is an extremely good example of the basic paradox associated with rape charges. On the one hand, false accusations are extremely rare; on the other hand, "innocent until proven guilty" IS a value our society normally holds to.
Don't think you need to accuse Bill of being a rapist, especially since the word "predatory" would be more accurate. I don't know what to do with Juanita Broadrick's accusations, especially considering her recent dive into the lunatic right-wing fever swamps. But I do know that Bill comes out of an extremely gross sexual culture, wherein powerful men aggressively propositioning women was common practice but never discussed. Or if it was discussed, it was with a wink and a nod, rather than the moral disgust it deserved.
Nor was this simply limited to Clinton. If you look at the Republican leadership that went after Clinton, virtually all of them were accused of having affairs, confirmed to have had affairs, or committed serious sexual misconduct while in office. But dealing with that would flip over a lot of stones that most pols don't want flipped, and for good reason.
What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun.
Yeah. That's definitely in play. I'm not sure whether the current generation of politicians (that is to say, the ones born in the '60s and '70s instead of the '40s) are doing any differently on average. I'd HOPE that anyone entering politics nowadays, even if they're a lustful creep by nature, would understand that scandals happen, that accusations of sexual misconduct do come out, and get taken more seriously with every passing decade.
But there are probably still a lot of sleazy men using high political office to gain sexual access to women.
