Israel turning away Darfur refugees

[Exmoor Cat]

Just an quick thought, I'm sure that even Isreal's infrastructure could handle two thousand people added suddenly, just not as a monolithic block. If those people were spread around by families instead of just...here's two thousand people, they need their own apartment complex and two thousand jobs near there..... most countries could handle the influx.

It's not the numbers thing, Israel's done it twice to my vague recollection - Ethiopian Jews and Yemeni jews were taken in en masse.

[Darth Mortis]

In my opinion, Isreal is afraid that mixed in with the refugees will be terrorist cells. That is why they are refusing the whole lot.

[Keevan_Colton]

Yeah, couldnt be a policy of being fucking dicks on these sort of things eh?

I suggest you take a glance at another thread in this forum I've just posted.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

If I recall correctly, Israel is one of the few nations in the world that actually grants and denies citizenship based on race. Correct me if I am wrong.

[Keevan_Colton]

If I recall correctly, Israel is one of the few nations in the world that actually grants and denies citizenship based on race. Correct me if I am wrong.

Well, it's based on the idea of a racial homeland...if you're a jew, you're in...just gotta keep the darkies and the muzzies out...

[Ace Pace]

If I recall correctly, Israel is one of the few nations in the world that actually grants and denies citizenship based on race. Correct me if I am wrong.

Well, it's based on the idea of a racial homeland...if you're a jew, you're in...just gotta keep the darkies and the muzzies out...

Now, lets be percise, Israel does not disqualify citizenship based on race, it just makes it easier to get citizenship if you're a Jew.
Still fucking assholish.

[Keevan_Colton]

If I recall correctly, Israel is one of the few nations in the world that actually grants and denies citizenship based on race. Correct me if I am wrong.

Well, it's based on the idea of a racial homeland...if you're a jew, you're in...just gotta keep the darkies and the muzzies out...

Now, lets be percise, Israel does not disqualify citizenship based on race, it just makes it easier to get citizenship if you're a Jew.
Still fucking assholish.

Yes, and by a similar vein, Jim Crow laws didn't bar blacks from voting...it just made it far harder...

[Sea Skimmer]

Now, lets be percise, Israel does not disqualify citizenship based on race, it just makes it easier to get citizenship if you're a Jew.
Still fucking assholish.

Or part of the extended family of a Jew, the wife of a son for example is eligible for those special provisions, even if only the father was actually Jewish. They made that little amendment after they realized that the supply of Jewish immigrants was drying up because people didn’t want to see there families broken up or subject to different requirements.

But as it is, the Israeli laws governing citizenship for non Jews are actually laxer in some respects then those of the United States. For example you only have to reside in the country for three out of the previous five years and the three need not be continuous, while America requires five continuous years residence.

Personally though, I can’t see why anyone but a hard core Zionist would want to move to the place to begin with. The Israeli Arab population will eventually outnumber the Jews in any case, and hopefully when that happens they’ll strike the bullshit from the law and it can become a decent place to live. I guess its just too fucking hard for them all to remember that they DID live in peace with each other before for hundreds of years at a time.

[Coyote]

If I recall correctly, Israel is one of the few nations in the world that actually grants and denies citizenship based on race. Correct me if I am wrong.

Well, it's based on the idea of a racial homeland...if you're a jew, you're in...just gotta keep the darkies and the muzzies out...

Which is so funny, considering that 55% or more of the Israeli population is precisely that: "darkies", ie, non-whites.

Unless of course you buy into the stereotype that all Jews are white guys named Hymie with giant hook noses and frumpy wives in tow.

[Keevan_Colton]

If I recall correctly, Israel is one of the few nations in the world that actually grants and denies citizenship based on race. Correct me if I am wrong.

Well, it's based on the idea of a racial homeland...if you're a jew, you're in...just gotta keep the darkies and the muzzies out...

Which is so funny, considering that 55% or more of the Israeli population is precisely that: "darkies", ie, non-whites.

Unless of course you buy into the stereotype that all Jews are white guys named Hymie with giant hook noses and frumpy wives in tow.

In case the smiley and atrocious spelling of the terms wasn't a give away, it was a jab at the attitudes that are behind it, rather than the particulars. The point being that it isn't far removed from the attitude of such luminaries of free thinking and tolerance as the KKK and neo-nazi's...not that there are at all any ideological comparisons to be drawn along those lines.

[Block]

Well, it's based on the idea of a racial homeland...if you're a jew, you're in...just gotta keep the darkies and the muzzies out...

Which is so funny, considering that 55% or more of the Israeli population is precisely that: "darkies", ie, non-whites.

Unless of course you buy into the stereotype that all Jews are white guys named Hymie with giant hook noses and frumpy wives in tow.

In case the smiley and atrocious spelling of the terms wasn't a give away, it was a jab at the attitudes that are behind it, rather than the particulars. The point being that it isn't far removed from the attitude of such luminaries of free thinking and tolerance as the KKK and neo-nazi's...not that there are at all any ideological comparisons to be drawn along those lines.

Yes because god forbid a group that's been persecuted since the dawn of time want a nation where they're the majority. Where's the league of Arabs in all this? They're always talking about Muslim brotherhood why aren't they running out to help with open arms? But then they don't even want the Palestinians, so why would they want a bunch of africans I guess? Must be nice judging others from a safe distance.

[Maraxus]

Considering that Israel apparently has the infrastructure necessary to assimilate any Jews who enter the nation no questions asked, aside from the apparently large number of Russians who aren't even Jewish, in order to maintain this "majority", this is just a case of Israel being a colossal dick head. By the way, not all people in northern Africa/Sudan are Muslim. That's the entire point of the genocide. Most of the information I've seen states that the actual victims of the genocide are largely animists, and thus wouldn't be incorporated into this so-called "Muslim Brotherhood" in any case.

[Block]

Considering that Israel apparently has the infrastructure necessary to assimilate any Jews who enter the nation no questions asked, aside from the apparently large number of Russians who aren't even Jewish, in order to maintain this "majority", this is just a case of Israel being a colossal dick head. By the way, not all people in northern Africa/Sudan are Muslim. That's the entire point of the genocide. Most of the information I've seen states that the actual victims of the genocide are largely animists, and thus wouldn't be incorporated into this so-called "Muslim Brotherhood" in any case.

Interesting, from what I've read it's the Muslims that are being slaughtered by the Janjaweed.

[Axis Kast]

Where Islam could function as a tool for the training of a soldier to shed his remorse for his victims, as is the case for soldiers who are sent south, the Muslim soldier is imbued with the belief that he does not have to adhere to any boundaries because the enemy is not a co-religionist. In those areas where government solkdiers and the local population in a war zone are both Muslim, the race factor becomes instrumental in the formation of the soldier's character. This explains the shocking incidents of mass rape that have been carried out by both the Janjaweed Arab militia and the regular armed forces in Darfur. In view of the way Arab soldiers behaved toward southern women throughout the North-South war - often justifying sexual assault on grounds that they did not share the same faith - that a Mujslim soldier should violate the bodily integrity of a Muslim woman, as they did in Darfur, reveals not only the manipulation of the soldiers but also the intersection of religion and race as the state's tools of suppression, alternating between race and religion according to the prevailing political and military situation in a given region.

Jok Mardut Jok, Sudan: Race, Religion, and Violence (Oxford: Oneworld Press, 2007), pp. 17-18.

The problem in Darfur is socially manufactured. Many of the black victims are Muslims in their own eyes, but not in those of the Sudanese state, run by northerner Arabs. Practically, as in Rwanda, there can be little obvious distinction between the two. There are cases of Africans arriving at Janjaweed camps for training and complaining, when ridiculed (and probably much worse) that, "We look just like you!"

Israel's hesitance to accept Darfuri refugees probably stems not so much from regret that they are Muslim per se (they are not necessarily a natural pro-Palestinian constituency), but from a preference to direct state resources toward other recipients (namely Jews). I have trouble being anything more than mildly disappointed. It isn't as if Israel is the odd party out, in this regard. I didn't expect more, and it's hard to oblige a sovereign country to do more.

[Coyote]

I believe many of the Darfuri being victimized are actually Christians and Animists, in which case I don't understand why they'd not go to Ethiopia or Eritrea, where there is a large Christian population and it is much shorter, and through territory that is just as dangerous.

It is also unlikely that they managed to stumble all the fucking way through Egypt without being noticed. My bet is on Egyptian border patrol hustling them out and dumping them on Israel's doorstep to make it the Evil Zionist's PR headache.

[eyl]

Considering that Israel apparently has the infrastructure necessary to assimilate any Jews who enter the nation no questions asked, aside from the apparently large number of Russians who aren't even Jewish, in order to maintain this "majority", this is just a case of Israel being a colossal dick head.

While Israel has assimilated large number of immigrants, it's not as painless or easy a process as you seem to think. There's still a long way to go with the Russian immigrants, for example, most of whom have been here at least a decade.

My bet is on Egyptian border patrol hustling them out and dumping them on Israel's doorstep to make it the Evil Zionist's PR headache.

My understanding as that at least some of them got to and stayed in Egypt for a while, were ill-treated, and moved on to Israel.

[Ace Pace]

Personally though, I can’t see why anyone but a hard core Zionist would want to move to the place to begin with. The Israeli Arab population will eventually outnumber the Jews in any case, and hopefully when that happens they’ll strike the bullshit from the law and it can become a decent place to live. I guess its just too fucking hard for them all to remember that they DID live in peace with each other before for hundreds of years at a time.

Being a good 30% or so of the population hasn't helped them much in voting, their votes are even more splintered then the Jewish population.
Right now, demographically, it's going to be an 'epic' fight between the ultra orthodox and the arabs about who will out number each other. Right now the ultra orthodox are winning by a slim percentage. And I'll reference you to 1919 and 1921, when certain arabs, such as Haj Amin El Husseini started riling up and organising the Arabs to drive the jews out, because at the time, the Arabs were selling the country to the Immigrant jews.

[Maraxus]

I don't understand why they'd not go to Ethiopia or Eritrea, where there is a large Christian population and it is much shorter, and through territory that is just as dangerous.

Just look at a map. In order to get to either Ethiopia or Eritrea, you'd have to cross the entire country of Sudan, a long walk through unfriendly territory, especially when the government is trying to wipe you out. It's a relatively shorter walk through the north into Egypt than to the east and into Ethiopia.

[Maraxus]

While Israel has assimilated large number of immigrants, it's not as painless or easy a process as you seem to think. There's still a long way to go with the Russian immigrants, for example, most of whom have been here at least a decade.

But that's not the point. Regardless of whether Israel has been able to assimilate all of them, they still opened their gates to people who were not Jewish in the name of increasing the "majority" of the Jewish population in Israel. Why can't the same be done to the Darfuris, especially considering that refugees often don't plan on staying long term, as many Russian immigrants do?

[eyl]

But that's not the point. Regardless of whether Israel has been able to assimilate all of them, they still opened their gates to people who were not Jewish in the name of increasing the "majority" of the Jewish population in Israel. Why can't the same be done to the Darfuris, especially considering that refugees often don't plan on staying long term, as many Russian immigrants do?

Not letting in the Darfuris simply requires enforcing the current law. Stopping the Russian immigrants would have required changing it.

Mind you, the way the Israeli government has been dealing with the issue of the Darfuri refugees is a whole mess of half-assed measures, not anything approaching a coherent policy. I wouldn't be surprised to find a different decision coming down in a few weeks.

[Axis Kast]

I believe many of the Darfuri being victimized are actually Christians and Animists, in which case I don't understand why they'd not go to Ethiopia or Eritrea, where there is a large Christian population and it is much shorter, and through territory that is just as dangerous.

The typical Darfuri refugee heads for nearby Chad. Those who find their way to other destinations are the exception, rather than the rule. Eritrea is a long way off, and a Muslim nation.

There can be no doubt: many Darfuri are Christians and Animists. But a large number are also Muslim. Treatment is meeted out partly on cultural lines: nomads versus pastoralists.

[Exmoor Cat]

Considering that Israel apparently has the infrastructure necessary to assimilate any Jews who enter the nation no questions asked, aside from the apparently large number of Russians who aren't even Jewish, in order to maintain this "majority", this is just a case of Israel being a colossal dick head. By the way, not all people in northern Africa/Sudan are Muslim. That's the entire point of the genocide. Most of the information I've seen states that the actual victims of the genocide are largely animists, and thus wouldn't be incorporated into this so-called "Muslim Brotherhood" in any case.

Interesting, from what I've read it's the Muslims that are being slaughtered by the Janjaweed.

Source? Either your source is up the spout or they're conducting some equal opportunities massacres along the way. The Janjaweed are an Islamic militia. Might be they're a law unto themselves now and no longer taknig orders from certain elements in Khartoum.

[Axis Kast]

"Certain elements in Khartoum" do not necessarily care one way or the other about how Darfuri pastoralists view themselves in terms of culture, religion, or race.

Israel is probably not "playing ball" with this particular set of refugees because they haven't the means to sustain themselves. They'll be wards of the state, or near enough, and they can use the idea of state sovereignty to back up their tight-fisted play. Probably they're not even losing much sleep: there aren't exactly others lining up to do the job. We can argue over whether that means anything from an ethnical standpoint (I would argue that it doesn't), but it's going to be hard to dislodge the Israelis from their position with talk.

[Androsphinx]

Israel to grant citizenship to hundreds of Darfur refugees

Israel intends to grant citizenship to several hundred refugees from Darfur who are currently in the country, Interior Minister Meir Sheetrit said Tuesday.

Speaking at a holiday toast for Kadima activists at party headquarters in Petah Tikva, Sheetrit disclosed that he has been working with Prime Minister Ehud Olmert on a plan to determine, in coordination with the United Nations, a quota of refugees who would become naturalized Israeli citizens.

Sheetrit said that his ministry has begun laying the groundwork for implementing the plan, which includes a thorough investigation of every refugee from Darfur residing in Israel.

Israeli law gives the interior minister the option of granting citizenship to people who do not meet any other citizenship criteria.

Estimates put the number of asylum seekers and refugees in Israel today at more than 2,000, many of them from Sudan. The UN estimates that since 2003, when the fighting began in the Darfur region of western Sudan, more than 200,000 people have been killed and 2.5 million people have been uprooted from their homes.

Israel, Sheetrit said, cannot ignore the refugees' fate because of the history of the Jewish people. "Just as prime minister Menachem Begin acted to grant citizenship to refugees from Vietnam, the same ought to be done today," the minister said.

In July, Olmert announced that any refugee caught crossing into Israel from Egypt would be returned to that country through an official crossing. Olmert said this arrangment had been finalized in discussions with Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak, but Egypt later issued a denial.

[Androsphinx]

Perhaps the thread title could be emended?