The 'black powder loophole' in gun laws...

[Sidewinder]

Truck mounted scorpions for drive-bys are next, mark my words.

Can you imagine a muzzle-loader drive-by?

In a pick-up truck driving by
Front rank FIRE!
Middle rank FIRE!
Rear rank FIRE!

It would be interesting to see someone actually try to use muzzle-loaders in a drive-by shooting, but even Forrest Gump would realize the gangsters will need to pack a LOT of people in the truck's cargo bay to equal the firepower of a single semiautomatic pistol, never mind something like a submachine gun or assault rifle. Such a large group would be a warning the would-be target can spot a mile away.

[Chardok]

Truck mounted scorpions for drive-bys are next, mark my words.

Are you talking about the arachnid, or the submachine gun?

http://www.roman-empire.net/army/scorpion-pics.html <--that. Like a ballista, only smaller.

[Ritterin Sophia]

Truck mounted scorpions for drive-bys are next, mark my words.

Are you talking about the arachnid, or the submachine gun?

The Siege Engine:

[Beowulf]

I think they were grandfathered in, and there's also an exemption for pieces used to trigger artificial avalanches. In both cases I am pretty bloody sure that only solid shot can be used, or blanks.

No, the 90mm piece I'm talking about was a prototype built in WW2, well after the National Firearms Act. See the bottom of this page for some video of it firing. I know a number of people have working 60mm and 81mm mortars, but they may have been produced before 1933.
http://www.armamentsales.com/videos.htm


The avalanche control guns most certainly do fire exploding shells; solid shot would not be effective. The weapons used are 75 and 106mm recoilless rifles, usually from very firmly bolted down positions at ski slopes, and 105mm howitzers which are fully mobile and moved as needed to take care of roads. They are operated by civilians, but they aren’t really privately owned, the weapons are army property only being lent out.

The ammo is considered a destructive device. So you need a background check to own it, and pay a $200 transfer tax per round. Also, the gun is as well. Though the transfer tax isn't as much of a deal with those.

[The Kernel]

Course, some people in the US actually have WW2 era artillery pieces in working condition with ammo; and I still can’t figure out how some of that is legal, like the privately owned 90mm anti tank gun.

Pfft that's nothing compared to some private collections out there like this one.

[Sea Skimmer]

Pfft that's nothing compared to some private collections out there like this one.

What, collections full of tanks with guns rendered permanently non functional? I’ll take the fully functional heavy anti tank gun myself, so that if the ATF goes crazy and starts driving M1s around my compound I can knock them out with flank shots.

[The Kernel]

Pfft that's nothing compared to some private collections out there like this one.

What, collections full of tanks with guns rendered permanently non functional? I’ll take the fully functional heavy anti tank gun myself, so that if the ATF goes crazy and starts driving M1s around my compound I can knock them out with flank shots.

Actually most of those tank guns are most certainly NOT non-functional.

[Balrog]

question, does new york have any regulation for Spring/tension, pnumonic, rapid catalysation, electromagnetic, or hydrolyic launch systems for small projectiles?

or are their laws just for cordite and saltpeter?

I don't know about New York, but in California anyone over the age of 16 can buy a hunting crossbow with a repeating loader.

I thought it was a law that only disabled hunters could use crossbows?

[Sea Skimmer]

[
Actually most of those tank guns are most certainly NOT non-functional.

Some of the ones just visiting might still have working guns, but that guys own collection sure doesn’t. Your OWN LINK goes into detail about how the things are demilitarized!

Each country has its own rules about the degree to which a tank must be deactivated before it can gain entry. To get the Hellcat into Britain, which has relatively permissive laws, and then into the U.S., workers had to torch a hole roughly the diameter of the muzzle into the barrel's side and cut off the rear end of the gun. The tank was sprayed with disinfectant to prevent the spread of animal diseases in this country.

[The Kernel]

Some of the ones just visiting might still have working guns, but that guys own collection sure doesn’t. Your OWN LINK goes into detail about how the things are demilitarized!

Actually I've been to that compound several times and although several of his tanks don't have functional weapons, several of the ones he acquired before a lot of attention was on his collection do. In fact one of the SCUDs he imported didn't have any demilitarization done AT ALL until the Feds took notice

I haven't spoked to Jacques in a few years, but I know for a fact that several of his systems still function and that he has live ammo for them. The guy is a freaking nut and he has no qualms about skirting a government regulation or two--heck that's part of the reason he has the things.

[Ryan Thunder]

Course, some people in the US actually have WW2 era artillery pieces in working condition with ammo; and I still can’t figure out how some of that is legal, like the privately owned 90mm anti tank gun.

Pfft that's nothing compared to some private collections out there like this one.

That man is awesome, whoever he is.

Is that the guy who drives them around town and stuff? Must be damn expensive if he does; wouldn't treads ruin the road?

[Stuart]

The gangsters will need to pack a LOT of people in the truck's cargo bay to equal the firepower of a single semiautomatic pistol, never mind something like a submachine gun or assault rifle. Such a large group would be a warning the would-be target can spot a mile away.

That's true, and the likely response of the gangsta's on the other side is the one proven counter.

"FORM SQUARE!"

You know this could put an entirely new complexion on inner city violence. Now that is a timeline worth exploring, practical breech-loading weapons were never invented so the world still uses muzzle-loaders. A thought, how does one arm an aircraft with muzzle-loading weapons? And can anybody imagine a tank with a muzzle-loading gun?

[That NOS Guy]

You know this could put an entirely new complexion on inner city violence. Now that is a timeline worth exploring, practical breech-loading weapons were never invented so the world still uses muzzle-loaders. A thought, how does one arm an aircraft with muzzle-loading weapons? And can anybody imagine a tank with a muzzle-loading gun?

Wouldn't that just be like the Ontos where it had multiple barrels and to be reloaded by a fully exposed crew?

[Glocksman]

Hmm. Well, I know a few people willing to sell you a musket. Good condition, only two hundred years old

What? Three shots a minute sounds all right to me!

When I can get a brand new musket? Pass.

Oh, and Glocksman, to answer your question: a moron who can't buy a modern weapon. Like, say, someone who's a convicted felon.

He'd have to be a complete moron to prefer a muzzleloading rifle* over a stolen .38 revolver to use in criminal activity.
Then again, criminals for the most part aren't mental giants.


*The report didn't mention the even deadlier 'high capacity blackpowder assault pistols', AKA 'cap and ball revolvers'.
Eyewitness News must be slipping since they missed that part of the loophole.

[Sea Skimmer]

You know this could put an entirely new complexion on inner city violence. Now that is a timeline worth exploring, practical breech-loading weapons were never invented so the world still uses muzzle-loaders. A thought, how does one arm an aircraft with muzzle-loading weapons? And can anybody imagine a tank with a muzzle-loading gun?

Easily, you’d just have the tanks work in closely nit pairs, with each tank crew reloading the others gun in turn, so no one is exposed out the hatches too long. Alternatively, if you had a really long tank and a short gun, you could depress it behind some kind of armored cover for reloading, as certain RML armed turret ships did.

Aircraft would just use huge masses of rockets, until Metalstorm technology becomes practical. A lack of effective lightweight anti aircraft guns would make low level attacks much more survivable.

[Lancer]

I demand my second-amendment right to wield blackpowder muzzleloaders! Not only do they send a 0.50 cal ball of "fuck off" to your enemy, they also provide you with a smokescreen for cover!

[Keevan_Colton]

And are your very best bet if you want to shoot an intruder in your swimming pool as Mythbusters proved.

[Beowulf]

You know this could put an entirely new complexion on inner city violence. Now that is a timeline worth exploring, practical breech-loading weapons were never invented so the world still uses muzzle-loaders. A thought, how does one arm an aircraft with muzzle-loading weapons? And can anybody imagine a tank with a muzzle-loading gun?

Easily, you’d just have the tanks work in closely nit pairs, with each tank crew reloading the others gun in turn, so no one is exposed out the hatches too long. Alternatively, if you had a really long tank and a short gun, you could depress it behind some kind of armored cover for reloading, as certain RML armed turret ships did.

Aircraft would just use huge masses of rockets, until Metalstorm technology becomes practical. A lack of effective lightweight anti aircraft guns would make low level attacks much more survivable.

Maybe use a removable breech on the gun. Take it off, reload it, put it back on. Kinda similar to a cap and ball revolver, but without a gap between the cylinder and the barrel.

[Lisa]

Well people have been known to deer hunt with a mountain howitzer...

It's an old site but it makes me laugh every time I read it.

[The Spartan]

He'd have to be a complete moron to prefer a muzzleloading rifle* over a stolen .38 revolver to use in criminal activity.
Then again, criminals for the most part aren't mental giants.

It may not have occured to them that there were still cap and ball revolvers available. As you noted, criminals (and the criminally insane) don't often tend towards the mental giant end of the intelligence spectrum.

[Stuart]

Easily, you’d just have the tanks work in closely nit pairs, with each tank crew reloading the others gun in turn, so no one is exposed out the hatches too long. Alternatively, if you had a really long tank and a short gun, you could depress it behind some kind of armored cover for reloading, as certain RML armed turret ships did.

I like the idea of an ONTOS-like multi-gun vehicle better. I guess that the way it would be done is to have a pre-shaped propellent slug that gets pushed into the barrel with a Minie ball like round on top of it. Big scope for development of caseless rounds here.

Aircraft would just use huge masses of rockets, until Metalstorm technology becomes practical. A lack of effective lightweight anti aircraft guns would make low level attacks much more survivable.

Rockets would probably be the big thing. An anti-aircraft system might well be a multiple-rocket pack hooked to a radar system. Reloading is done by switching packs over.

You know, there is a good alternate time line story here.....

[Scottish Ninja]

Part of the "FEAR FEAR FEAR" story that they're pushing, of course, is the caliber. Of course, a modern .50 is super-powerful and therefore super-deadly, so an old .50 caliber gun must also be super-powerful and super-deadly too!

We shouldn't really be surprised, though - this is the same news media that calls anything automatic a "machine gun" and anything semi-automatic which is not a pistol an "assault rifle" and go "yeah, same difference" if anyone informs them of things like "facts".

[Sea Skimmer]

I like the idea of an ONTOS-like multi-gun vehicle better. I guess that the way it would be done is to have a pre-shaped propellent slug that gets pushed into the barrel with a Minie ball like round on top of it. Big scope for development of caseless rounds here.

Well logically you could have a gun you can reload in the turret, and have an external pack of additional barrels or missile launchers to give yourself a higher burst rate of fire. Place the turret at the rear, and mount the engine on one side of the front of the tank, with a slot for reloading the main barrel alongside. Barrels will have to be short for efficient reloading, so tank guns will probably be relatively high caliber, perhaps similar to the now defunct 165mm demolition gun.

I can’t think tanks will be nearly as common as they are today though, since they simply aren’t needed as much. The threat of indirect fire artillery is greatly reduced, and a machine gun would have to be huge. I’d imagine the galting gun is the best basis for a muzzle loader, since you can ‘easily’ adapt it multiple step loading.

[The_Saint]

Now we have fairly restrictive laws out here but apparently there are some dodgy loop holes in regards to "crew served weapons" ... so basically if it takes more than one person to operate it it's legal... There are other rules in place to prevent people acquiring .50 cal MG's.... though there is someone in possession of a working 40mm Bofors....


Truck mount that for a smash and grab...

pffft .50calibre ... I'm guessing 300mm+ ...Metal storm-like truck mount: remove that pesky security grill for the smash and grab.