Open Letter to the Government from an AWOL Soldier

Wanderer · Post by **Wanderer** » 2007-11-11 09:29am

ray245 wrote:
Wanderer wrote:
Only because the Allies dropped the ball on prosecuting them for their crimes.

Still, they managed to nab several thousand.
Didn't the allies just ignore some people's actions in ww2 because they have some vital information and etc. Like the scientist in Japan's germ program or something...where they used plenty of humans as live subjects and they got away without any charges due to US wanting some germ program intel as well?

Yes that too.

Post by **Broomstick** » 2007-11-11 11:23am

ray245 wrote:Didn't the allies just ignore some people's actions in ww2 because they have some vital information and etc. Like the scientist in Japan's germ program or something...where they used plenty of humans as live subjects and they got away without any charges due to US wanting some germ program intel as well?

A better example is probably Werner Van Braun and his rocket science.

And why didn't Emporer Hirohito meet the same fate as Mussoli and Hitler?

DavidEC · Post by **DavidEC** » 2007-11-11 12:44pm

Because apparently he was venerated as semi-divine by the people, and doing something to him would make the US occupation very, very difficult.

Rawtooth · Post by **Rawtooth** » 2007-11-11 12:58pm

Broomstick wrote: A better example is probably Werner Van Braun and his rocket science.

And why didn't Emporer Hirohito meet the same fate as Mussoli and Hitler?

IIRC the Emporer avoided that fate by distancing himself from the war sometime when it became clear that Japan was going to lose. He basically was able to stand back and say "I didn't know about these war crimes, I was just a figure head!"

As for deserting, can't someone break a contract when they learn that the other person didn't make/create it in "good faith"? I.E. since Bush and Co. knew they were going to screw over anyone who signed, so the people who signed can break said contract?

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2007-11-11 01:29pm

Rawtooth wrote:
As for deserting, can't someone break a contract when they learn that the other person didn't make/create it in "good faith"? I.E. since Bush and Co. knew they were going to screw over anyone who signed, so the people who signed can break said contract?

I suppose, however since involuntary extentions are part of said contract I don't see how they can claim that.

Rawtooth · Post by **Rawtooth** » 2007-11-11 04:02pm

Knife wrote:I suppose, however since involuntary extentions are part of said contract I don't see how they can claim that.

I'm not contesting the involuntary extentions portion, but the contract itself. If the entire contract was entered into with the soldier under "good faith", i.e. the people who signed up during/after the start of the Iraq war, then they would be able to avoid fulfilling the contract.

The problem with this is having someone with the balls to try and prove the lack of "good faith" on the part of Bush and Co. in a court. I'm also not an expert on legal matters so I might be missing something else.

Justforfun000 · Post by **Justforfun000** » 2007-11-11 04:59pm

Wow way to completely mischaractarize what I said. Note that I specifically mentioned the need for obediance to LAWFUL orders. So somehow that got transmuted in your mind into goosestepping down the line of history. Would you like to attack something other than a strawman and address my actual position.

I misunderstood you then. I thought your point was as I described, but you've made it clear what it actually was.

As to your point about it being more then just a job, yes of course it is a lot more intense and time-consuming then the average, but the reality is that you do it for pay so it is indeed a job. My point was that ultimately it is a facet of your life and should be kept in a proper perspective. If they are trying to force you to do illegal or morally reprehensible actions, then as far as I'm concerned that should be enough to "void" your contract. There has to be proper accountability both ways or it's not fair.

CmdrWilkens · Post by **CmdrWilkens** » 2007-11-12 09:10pm

Justforfun000 wrote:
Wow way to completely mischaractarize what I said. Note that I specifically mentioned the need for obediance to LAWFUL orders. So somehow that got transmuted in your mind into goosestepping down the line of history. Would you like to attack something other than a strawman and address my actual position.
I misunderstood you then. I thought your point was as I described, but you've made it clear what it actually was.

As to your point about it being more then just a job, yes of course it is a lot more intense and time-consuming then the average, but the reality is that you do it for pay so it is indeed a job. My point was that ultimately it is a facet of your life and should be kept in a proper perspective. If they are trying to force you to do illegal or morally reprehensible actions, then as far as I'm concerned that should be enough to "void" your contract. There has to be proper accountability both ways or it's not fair.

Sure there has to be a requirement for legality and morality but ther problem is that running away instead of standing up and facing the consequences of claiming an action immoral or unlawful is just cowardice. If he truly believes that the requirements imposed upon him (the AWOL guy) then he should have refused and submitted to the legal process already in place for him to demonstrate just that. There is a system in place and this guy just decided to circumvent the whole thing because he really doesn't have the strength of conviction. That is why I don't have sympathy.

Oni Koneko Damien · Post by **Oni Koneko Damien** » 2007-11-13 01:20am

CmdrWilkens wrote: If he truly believes that the requirements imposed upon him (the AWOL guy) then he should have refused and submitted to the legal process already in place for him to demonstrate just that. There is a system in place and this guy just decided to circumvent the whole thing because he really doesn't have the strength of conviction. That is why I don't have sympathy.

You mean the system that others have already pointed out is incredibly time consuming and gives no guarantee that you'll actually be granted CO status?

I'm sorry, but someone who decides to forgo a system that's been proven time and again to be sub-standard at best doesn't 'lack conviction', he has a bit of common sense. If he's willing to face whatever charges are coming, which would seem to be the case, he claimed he was making no attempts to run from the law, then do you actually have anything more than 'Hah! He's a coward for not going by the book and going through a lengthy process that probably won't work!"?

A side note, I have a good friend who actually managed to get CO status. It took him about two years, over which he nearly attempted suicide several times over the situation he was in. Seeing what he had to go through to get it, I don't blame this guy at all for deserting.