Rogue 9 wrote:
In effect, banning concealed carry only disarms potential victims; to an armed criminal, it's just one more charge appended to the end of a doubtlessly already long rap sheet.
What a load of shit; it's not what this thread is about, of course, but the implication here is that accidental woundings from law abiding citizens using their guns crappily are not even worth consideration. Also, what if you can't pin a known criminal on anything else and they're carrying a gun? You'd be able to throw the book at them for that and get a warrant to search the rest of their property based on it, and that would be better than nothing.
As for Mike's original question, the answer is that known thugs aren't licensed to carry concealed weapons, not even in the most gun-friendly states of the U.S. So it is already illegal for a criminal to carry a concealed weapon; making it illegal for a law-abiding citizen to do so doesn't change the criminals' legal situation with regards to firearms in the least.
What if the criminal hasn't been caught yet?
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Rogue 9 wrote:As for Mike's original question, the answer is that known thugs aren't licensed to carry concealed weapons, not even in the most gun-friendly states of the U.S. So it is already illegal for a criminal to carry a concealed weapon; making it illegal for a law-abiding citizen to do so doesn't change the criminals' legal situation with regards to firearms in the least.
What if the criminal hasn't been caught yet?
Argh, I seem to have inadvertently started a threadjack.
Anyways, Rogue probably means that even if they hadn't been convicted or indicted of a crime yet, carrying an concealed firearm unliscensed is still a crime in most US jurisdictions, so you could still string somebody up on that charge regardless of the legality of owning a firearm. There's no reason why legalizing the possession of firearms would have to be all-or-nothing.
Perhaps you're not grasping the point Matt, he asked what happens if the criminal hasnt been arrested and thus is legally allowed his concealed carry just like all the law abiding gunmen...after all, only known criminals would be denied...
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Matt Huang wrote:I'm sorry, I'm more familiar with the MD system, in which concealed-carry permits are almost never issued, regardless of criminal status.
So, the law abiding folk likely wouldn't have one either...right...so...what the fuck was the point of all this bullshit?
"Prodesse Non Nocere." "It's all about popularity really, if your invisible friend that tells you to invade places is called Napoleon, you're a loony, if he's called Jesus then you're the president." "I'd drive more people insane, but I'd have to double back and pick them up first..." "All it takes for bullshit to thrive is for rational men to do nothing." - Kevin Farrell, B.A. Journalism. BOTM - EBC - Horseman - G&C - Vampire
Matt Huang wrote:That if you're carrying a concealed firearm without a permit, then you're already committing a crime?
Right, so where does having a gun with you to take on the evil criminals come into the equation?
"Prodesse Non Nocere." "It's all about popularity really, if your invisible friend that tells you to invade places is called Napoleon, you're a loony, if he's called Jesus then you're the president." "I'd drive more people insane, but I'd have to double back and pick them up first..." "All it takes for bullshit to thrive is for rational men to do nothing." - Kevin Farrell, B.A. Journalism. BOTM - EBC - Horseman - G&C - Vampire
Matt Huang wrote:That if you're carrying a concealed firearm without a permit, then you're already committing a crime?
Right, so where does having a gun with you to take on the evil criminals come into the equation?
I don't know; at some point the thread degenerated from the legality of nonlethal self-defense weapons like pepper spray to the legality of guns.
I popped in because Rogue seemed to be implying that would-be criminals would not license their firearms or apply for concealed-carry permits (with the implicit understanding that such activities would make it easier to trace such weapons used in the commission of a crime back to the person who registered it), and Zuul seemed to completely ignore that.
Thankyou, UK members, for clearing that up for me. I find it comforting that the UK isn't stupid enough to say "Run or roll over and take it."
In any event, making firearms illegal is going to make it harder for the criminals to acquire them. Not impossible, but harder. Honestly, the whole debate over concealed carry is one big circle of arguments. Regardless of whether you're armed or not, the guy who has the weapon ready to use first has the advantage. And in almost every country, state, or city, the first one to pull a weapon is in the deepest shit (legally speaking).
Also note that a screwdriver is plenty dangerous and can be purchased by almost anyone. Knowing how to deal with a an armed assailant will help more than being armed yourself. And that does include "just giving them your damn wallet" if that's what they're after. Though if they just want to hurt you that'll mean knowing how to disarm them and go from there.
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The whole "Only criminals will have weapons if they are de-legalized!" argument is a red herring, anyway. There is no blanket rule like this, as shown by countries like my own, where it is flat out illegal to carry concealed firearms, and somehow, criminals don't rule the streets unopposed, despite the ease with which you can buy a stolen Kalashnikov or TT pistol.
The rate of gun murder is also lower than in the US ; fancy that...could it be, perhaps, that culture also matters in these things?
Once the VT massacre occurred, we had many gun nuts whinging about students and other members of the public needing to carry weapons in the workplace and streets, but that reasoning seemed so retarded even though it was well intended and normal people have a right to defend themselves against attackers (you get plenty of UK murders that don't need firearms).
But I heard of a utterly ridiculous case in America where a injured bugler sued a business he attempted to rob by hurting himself against broken glass (either embedded in the wall where the twat climbed over or when he broke through a window).
(either embedded in the wall where the twat climbed over or when he broke through a window).