The Apology

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mr friendly guy
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Post by mr friendly guy »

Now people are babbling on about the money taxpayers will fork out if compensation gets off the ground. The usual I didn't support it (because I wasn't born then), so why should I fork it out. Hey, does that mean I can ask right wing conservatives to my tax dollars (an I am taxed at 40% marginal rate) out of funding for the clusterfuck in Iraq, since I didn't want to go to war? Or does only conservatives allowed to make this argument.

Lets do some simple maths. IIRC the only successful claimant to sue got around between 100-200 K. Lets assume each successful case gets a whopping $1 million. The Aboriginal Legal service has 600 stolen generation cases to be reviewed (source today's West Australian on the front page).

Thats about $600 million AUD.
How much tax cuts is the Rudd government planning to give us. $31 BILLION.
How much was Howard planning to give us if he won. $34 BILLION.

The differential in tax cuts between the Rudd government and Howards old maladministration could easily afford this. This is beyond mean spirited that a lot of Australians aren't willing for the government to fork out compensation money when its a mere fraction of the tax cuts we are getting. It just saddens me especially since I am living in a state where the majority don't support an apology and we had 4 member of parliament from my state walking out. God damn it. Queensland is supposed to be the red neck state. :cry:
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Post by Walsh »

Most people I've spoken to fit into one of two camps. One, that they don't really care since it has nothing to do with them, and two, that they are glad it's done and it should have happened ages ago. My grandparents are the only people I know that think it was wrong to apologise, and that it opens the floodgates for lawsuits blah blah etcetera. No surprise that they were rabid Howard-huggers.

I just read in the Daily Telegraph that there are calls for the British government to endorse the apology to the stolen generations, since it had "heavy historic responsibility" in aiding the removal of indigenous children, or something.
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Post by Glocksman »

The usual I didn't support it (because I wasn't born then), so why should I fork it out. Hey, does that mean I can ask right wing conservatives to my tax dollars (an I am taxed at 40% marginal rate) out of funding for the clusterfuck in Iraq, since I didn't want to go to war? Or does only conservatives allowed to make this argument.
Playing Devil's Advocate here, the difference is that you were alive during the Iraq debates and presumably voted in the elections, no matter that you voted for the opposition and they lost.

Whereas many of your younger 'liberals' weren't even alive when the kidnappings ceased.

That said, the remaining kidnapped children certainly deserve compensation of some kind.
Though the nature of it is up to Australian society to work out using the political process.
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Zablorg
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Post by Zablorg »

We watched a video which explained in detail what these peoples lives were like. Horrible.

The "I didn't do it so why should I say sorry" argument could be taken two ways, depending on the context of "sorry".
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mr friendly guy
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Post by mr friendly guy »

Glocksman wrote:
The usual I didn't support it (because I wasn't born then), so why should I fork it out. Hey, does that mean I can ask right wing conservatives to my tax dollars (an I am taxed at 40% marginal rate) out of funding for the clusterfuck in Iraq, since I didn't want to go to war? Or does only conservatives allowed to make this argument.
Playing Devil's Advocate here, the difference is that you were alive during the Iraq debates and presumably voted in the elections, no matter that you voted for the opposition and they lost.

Whereas many of your younger 'liberals' weren't even alive when the kidnappings ceased.
I love how you use liberals in inverted commas. I guess the rest of the world realises that Liberal in Australia actually means conservative. :lol:

That being said unless the beginning of Iraq war fell exactly on an election time (which it didn't) there was no way for me to vote against it.

But going along with your devil's advocate, I can simply change the topic to something else right wing people tend to like, for example paying benefits to war veterans. After all, I certainly wasn't around for even the Vietnam war. Now I generally don't have a problem with benefits to war veterans, but the same logic applies. If hypothetically someone (born after the end of any war) out there doesn't want their tax payers dollars to go to war veterans, then that argument has equal weight as liberal supporters who moan and whine about tax payers money going to compensate Aborigines.
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mr friendly guy
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Post by mr friendly guy »

It seems Dr Nelson's speech distorted the truth. What a shock.
Fresh apology demanded for Nelson speech


Sherrill Nixon
February 16, 2008

AN ABORIGINAL woman says she feels as though she has been "stolen all over again" after her story of separation from her father 50 years ago was used by the Opposition Leader, Brendan Nelson, in his apology speech.

Faye Lynam, from Shepparton in northern Victoria, has demanded a public apology from Dr Nelson, who she says took her story out of context by implying her father gave her to welfare authorities willingly.

She sobbed yesterday as she asked why he did not gain her permission to use her quotes in his "toxic" speech on Wednesday, which sandwiched her story between comments defending removal policies and rejecting calls for compensation.

"My dad was not happy that I was taken," Mrs Lynam said.

"They cheated us, they cheated me of my life with him and now I feel like I'm stolen all over again. I am ashamed that he [Nelson] has done this to me, I'm so ashamed."

Dr Nelson rang Mrs Lynam, 57, on Thursday night to apologise after learning of her distress at his speech, during which thousands of people across the country turned their backs in protest and which was snubbed by several of his own party members, including the frontbencher Peter Dutton, the finance spokesman, who absented himself from the historic parliamentary sitting.

Mr Dutton has not commented on his reasons for leaving the chamber during the apology.

Dr Nelson's spokesman said the record from which Dr Nelson quoted - an oral history kept in the National Library of Australia - was publicly available.

"Brendan rang Faye last night and said to her if there was anything in the speech that she felt was offensive or hurtful, he apologised for that," he said.

But Mrs Lynam said she wanted a public apology, since the original speech was telecast widely.

The education worker was in Canberra on Wednesday to celebrate the Prime Minister's apology. However, she did not learn how her quotes had been used until she returned home on Thursday, and said most of her friends and family did not even know she had been removed before Dr Nelson told her story.

"When I went for a so-called better life, I was sexually assaulted, used as a little slave," said Mrs Lynam, who returned to her father at 16 after having lived in several foster homes.

"I was on such a high up there [in Canberra], we got a sorry, now we can start moving forward. And then being hit by this, it's like ripping my heart out all over again."

In his speech, Dr Nelson led into Mrs Lynam's story by saying: "No one should bring a sense of moral superiority to this debate in seeking to diminish the view that good was being sought to be done."

He then quoted from her oral history, including the passage: "Personally I don't want people to say, 'I'm sorry, Faye' - I just want them to understand. It was very hurtful to leave Dad … Dad said to me, 'It's hard for daddy and the authorities won't let you stay with me in a tent on the riverbank. You're a little girl and you need someone to look after you.' I remember him telling us that, and I cried."

He went on to say there should not be a compensation fund.

Meanwhile, the leader of Stolen Generations Victoria, Lyn Austin, said up to 40 Victorian people removed from their families are planning to seek compensation through the courts.

Her cousin Neville Austin, 44, has briefed a leading QC, Jack Rush, to sue the Victorian Government in what is expected to be the first stolen generations claim in the state.

The case is yet to be filed.

with Mark Davis
I am glad John Howards version of historical revisionism, er I mean history hasn't come to past. Hopefully we can end those retards' version of the "Culture wars" as well. I can only imagine we would have been told the version that Aborigines really got it better being taken from their parents, eh?
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Post by Lusankya »

What's this whole fuss about, anyway? I distinctly remember reading somewhere that Australian history started in 1970, when we sprung out of Zeus's head fully grown up and multicultural, and quite possibly clad in Grecian armour which represents our niceness and stuff. ;)


Seriouly, though, it looks as though Rudd has figured out that the best way to make everyone hate Nelson is to give him as much publicity as possible. That guy can't seem to open his mouth without insulting everybody.
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mr friendly guy
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Post by mr friendly guy »

As predicted, conservative nutjobs are at it again

This is from Miranda Devine who famously gave us David Hicks is guilty because he pled guilty line. She obviously missed the point that Hicks didn't get a fair trial so we won't know how much his involvement really was.

Observe some snippets
But for a Government big on symbolism, the message is that the minister is listening only to the usual suspects from the old rights-based Aboriginal power establishment, who have vested interests in the rotten status quo that has been so disastrous for so many Aboriginal children. So disastrous that researchers in the latest Medical Journal Of Australia seriously advocate a mass antibiotic program in remote communities because of the soaring rate of sexually transmitted diseases among children
Ah, the usual "symbolism vs practical" false dilemna fallacy. For some reason conservatives like using this line so much. Apparently spending a few days crafting a speech and 15 minutes saying it must be a really big effort for Kevin Rudd, such that his government can't actually do practical things. Well I guess since Howard couldn't even do that, it must seem like a big effort doesn't it to the Right.
So dysfunctional that the former indigenous affairs minister Mal Brough tells of one community in which eight six-year-olds were raped by older children, aged eight to 10. In another, recent health checks identified 300 rat bites on children.

Yet when Opposition Leader Brendan Nelson began listing the unpalatable, well-documented facts of Aboriginal misery during his apology speech on Wednesday, he was attacked.
These dumbshits still don't get it. The apology was primarily to acknowledge wrong done to the stolen generation. Complaining about other problems in Aboriginal communities is a red herring.

I suppose right wing retards might "get it" if someone started complaining about the Iraq war stating that its premise was based on lies, while people were celebrating Anzac day or Rememberance day. But I wouldn't hold my breath as they seem to have evolved the mutant ability to ignore blatant double standards. Except when other people do it.
"They do not want to hear the truth because it's so offensive and insulting," says Brough, the former army officer whose passion to actually fix problems in dysfunctional Aboriginal communities drove the Northern Territory emergency intervention. The aim was to re-establish social norms the rest of Australia takes for granted, by inserting police, preventing alcohol and drug abuse, performing medical checks and instituting income management.
The irony of the pot calling a kettle black. Hey Mr Brough. You conservatives have refused to hear the truth about the stolen generation, even cravenly attempting to say the number of Aborigines taken doesn't constitute a generation. You don't want to hear the truth because you find it offensive and insulting that your glorious Australian history actually has periods where you shouldn't be proud of, and even be ashamed of.

For those who don't remember, Mal Brough was the attention whore minister. When he became apparent he would lose his seat he begged Kevin Rudd to "think of the children" line (or similar premise) in reference to the Government's intervention into Aboriginal communities.
After 75 days in office, Macklin has not visited a single remote Aboriginal community. Her spokeswoman stressed on Friday that, as Opposition spokeswoman, she travelled to 15 communities last year and gained "a lot of corporate knowledge" to inform her decisions.
After 10 FUCKING YEARS in office the Coalition could not even say a single sorry. Yet we are supposed to come down hard on a government which has already done more in a few months than Howard did in ten years. Give me a break.

Also notice throughout her right wing rant where she aportions blame. When Labor is in power, the fault lies with the Rudd government not doing enough. However if the Coalition is in power, the problems in the Aboriginal communities are the fault of ... yeah well she certainly doesn't blame the governmen.t Got to love that mentality. Never mind that the Howard government had 10 years to improve these problems while Jenny Macklin has only been minister for 75 days. But its never too early to criticise the opposition, so speaks the Right.
The first test of the Government's commitment will be whether Rudd invites Brough to join his new bipartisan Policy Commission on indigenous reform, as Nelson requested. The former minister will no doubt be troublesome but no one can question his knowledge and passion. Nelson should make it a condition of his own involvement.
No, the first test would be whether the Government actually improves things like standard of living, education and health for Aborigines and deals with the paedophile filth hiding in them. Not some symbolic bullshit like having Mal Brough join the team. Oh, hang on a minute. I thought you guys were interested in practical rather than symbolic measures.

But maybe we can have Brough join the team, after he takes acting lessons from Hilary Clinton. Then we might see a grown man cry next time he blabs on about thinking of the children. Oh wait, Mick Malthouse already beat you to it.
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Post by Darth Wong »

Conservatives are ranting that this apology is merely "symbolic" and doesn't accomplish anything? Does that mean that politicians should never be allowed to say anything to the public unless they're passing a bill at the time?
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Post by Elfdart »

Holy shit all that racist pigswill sounds familiar! It's almost word-for-word identical to the kind of white supremacist apologetics we get in this country whenever someone commemorates the atrocities committed against Indians and Blacks. Snatching the children of Apaches, Sioux and Navajos was common here, too. And of course if anyone should point out how despicable that was, there's the usual horseshit about alcoholism on the reservations, or black kids born out of wedlock (described in lip-smacking detail), and so on.

The big difference is, racist special pleaders in the US go one better and accuse black men needing to be enslaved so they could learn about Baby Jesus and be chained up before they could rape white women; and Injuns of being cannibal savages who were herded onto reservations for their own good.

So our white supremacist fucktards are more inventive than yours.
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Post by Adrian Laguna »

Darth Wong wrote:Conservatives are ranting that this apology is merely "symbolic" and doesn't accomplish anything? Does that mean that politicians should never be allowed to say anything to the public unless they're passing a bill at the time?
You know, it would be nice if that where true.
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