NY Governor Involved In Prostituion Ring?

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Post by SirNitram »

HemlockGrey wrote:
Isn't it interesting that the Feds had arranged a wiretap? That Spitzer's name is leaked immediately?
Are you insinuating this is a sinister Republican plot to discredit Spitzer?

In any case, the guy's always been a Grade A asshole and even if I'm not sold on the importance of the case its nice to see him sweat a bit.
This investigation into Spitzer and this ring happened to be in 07.. When the DoJ lost it's AG because he had been conducting politicial firings. This is also not the only Democratic politician to be targetted so strangely. Siegelman had a pretty politicized situation as well.

And of course, the blatant, choking double-standard.

'Sinister'? Probably not. But plan to discredit and throw out Spitzer? Probably.
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Post by Flagg »

SirNitram wrote:
HemlockGrey wrote:
Isn't it interesting that the Feds had arranged a wiretap? That Spitzer's name is leaked immediately?
Are you insinuating this is a sinister Republican plot to discredit Spitzer?

In any case, the guy's always been a Grade A asshole and even if I'm not sold on the importance of the case its nice to see him sweat a bit.
This investigation into Spitzer and this ring happened to be in 07.. When the DoJ lost it's AG because he had been conducting politicial firings. This is also not the only Democratic politician to be targetted so strangely. Siegelman had a pretty politicized situation as well.

And of course, the blatant, choking double-standard.

'Sinister'? Probably not. But plan to discredit and throw out Spitzer? Probably.
While I agree that the motive for the investigation doesn't pass the smell test, it's at least pretty apparent that this fucker actually did something. So I'll shake my fist at the politically motivated DoJ, but I'm not gonna cry over spilled hypocrite.
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Post by SirNitram »

Flagg wrote:While I agree that the motive for the investigation doesn't pass the smell test, it's at least pretty apparent that this fucker actually did something. So I'll shake my fist at the politically motivated DoJ, but I'm not gonna cry over spilled hypocrite.
Agreed. Charge him with solitician. I think bringing up the 1910 'White Slave Traffic Act' into it is a joke and a half.
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Post by Flagg »

SirNitram wrote:
Flagg wrote:While I agree that the motive for the investigation doesn't pass the smell test, it's at least pretty apparent that this fucker actually did something. So I'll shake my fist at the politically motivated DoJ, but I'm not gonna cry over spilled hypocrite.
Agreed. Charge him with solitician. I think bringing up the 1910 'White Slave Traffic Act' into it is a joke and a half.
Oh yeah, that's ridiculous. That needs to be amended to "underage" and made non gender-specific. I think that law might be successfully challenged under the equal protection clause in the 14th amendment.
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Post by FSTargetDrone »

Darth Wong wrote:Why does everyone keep saying "Spitzer involved in prostitution ring" when he was merely hiring a hooker? If some junkie buys a hit off a dealer at a street corner, do people say "junkie found to be involved in drug smuggling operation"?
I only used that phrase in the OP title because it happened to be the headlines on the various TV reports as the story was breaking, but it is definitely overstating it to say he is involved in the ring itself, at least as it seems right now.
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Post by MKSheppard »

So apparently he was doing this for like six to ten years back; IOW, during his term as AG when he was a total dick to everyone.
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Post by Big Orange »

While the Republicans are running the American economy and foreign policy down into the Earth's core, while aiming at setting society back several centuries, they have the nerve to shriek about a relatively low ranking Democrat Party functionary having a paid night out with a pretty twenty/thirty something courtesan? :?
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Post by Edward Yee »

Problem for Spitzer is, he's the one who made himself all the more vulnerable with his preceding reputation, and he can color people's reactions by being a dick, as Sheppard has said. (Turns out he told an opposing politician "[l]isten, I'm a fucking steamroller and I'll roll over you and anybody else" soon after her took gubernatorial office.)
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Post by Ubiquitous »

Big Orange wrote:While the Republicans are running the American economy and foreign policy down into the Earth's core, while aiming at setting society back several centuries, they have the nerve to shriek about a relatively low ranking Democrat Party functionary having a paid night out with a pretty twenty/thirty something courtesan? :?
That's great logic Big Orange. Two wrongs make a right!

The guy got caught. The guy tried to clampdown on prostitution whilst simultaneously fucking high class hookers.

People who defend cunt dribble hypocrite politicians like this deserve exactly what they get. No wonder America got Bush for 8 years: the entire population, not just the republitards, are hypocrites and will overlook any bullshit as long as it is by someone from 'their party'. Have expectations of public officials fallen so low that they can commit crimes whilst trying to punish others for them and get defended/covered up by supporters for it?
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Post by Stuart »

Flagg wrote:That needs to be amended to "underage" and made non gender-specific. I think that law might be successfully challenged under the equal protection clause in the 14th amendment.
I think most people would agree but the law is the way it is at the moment. The Mann Act was a good law for its time but those times have passed. It does need to be revised to reflect modern mores and transport facilities. The act itself is still very badly needed though.

On this particular case. What this stinks of is OCCB. This smells to me like there is a major organized crime investigation going down - probably into one or all of the Five Families and this is the first step in the dance. Like it or not prostitution is one of the big Mob money earners - either the club was directly owned by one of the Families or they were paying one of the families for "protection" (prostitution being especially susceptible to protection/extortion rackets since the earning power of one of the girls is greatly reduced if somebody throws a bottle of acid in her face).

My guess would be that the word went out to all the banks - be especially vigilant in reporting suspicious payments. That applies to going out and coming in. Money coming in could easily be payoffs or income from rackets. money going out could be blackmail or payments for illegal services.

So, the bank reported this guy for the payments and they traced him to the escort agency. My bet is that agency was already under surveillance for possible mob links and OCCB simply put the two together. Then, they realized the guy was paying for hookers. So, they have a problem. They can either bust the whole investigation or they can make it look like he is the only target. Want to bet there's a back-door deal been struck? "You make it look like we set out to get you and we'll see you get off light."

In other words this is (as usual) a cock-up (singularly appropriate phrase in this conection) rather than a conspiracy; OCCB set out to nail the Five Familes and they hit a priapatetic governer instead.
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Post by HemlockGrey »

to shriek about a relatively low ranking Democrat Party functionary having a paid night out with a pretty twenty/thirty something courtesan?
Actually, as far as scalps go, this one's fairly significant. Spitzer was the scourge of Wall Street for a number of years, a high-flying Governor of a powerful state with possible presidential aspirations, and now his career is pretty much over.
Turns out he told an opposing politician "[l]isten, I'm a fucking steamroller and I'll roll over you and anybody else" soon after her took gubernatorial office.
Its always a little satisfying to see that kind of hubris ripped apart. Nelson Rockefeller, Robert Moses and the Daleys can get away with that kind of stuff, but they never made the lame mistake of sleeping with prostitutes.
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Post by Big Orange »

Ubiquitous wrote:That's great logic Big Orange. Two wrongs make a right!

The guy got caught. The guy tried to clampdown on prostitution whilst simultaneously fucking high class hookers.
The actual act itself is not as bad as the hypocrisy involved, true, but I'm numbed from hypocrisy over relatively harmless sexual acts from politicians of any stripe, and Stuart's mentioning the old school Mafia being investigated bein a more serious issue (with Spitzer being secondary collateral as far as I can tell).
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Post by Darth Wong »

Ubiquitous wrote:Have expectations of public officials fallen so low that they can commit crimes whilst trying to punish others for them and get defended/covered up by supporters for it?
I opposed criminalization of consenting-adult prostitution for years before this happened. You can't treat all laws as if they are equivalent. The Republicans violate human rights laws, conflict of interest laws, separation of powers, etc., and this cannot be remotely comparable to violating puritanical prostitution laws in any sane world.

Having said that, he is indeed a hypocrite, but at least he's a hypocrite about something that doesn't matter all that much. Not like running on a "cut wasteful spending" platform and then running up the most gigantic spending increases in history.
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Post by Big Orange »

HemlockGrey wrote: Actually, as far as scalps go, this one's fairly significant. Spitzer was the scourge of Wall Street for a number of years, a high-flying Governor of a powerful state with possible presidential aspirations, and now his career is pretty much over.
He may have been significant when he had ambitions for the White House, but in the couple of years to many months leading up to this silly scandal, Spitzer seems irrelevant in regards to the current Presidential Run with his tarring and feathering carried out by the Neocons being another vague attempt to get at liberals, Democrats, Clinton and Obama.
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Post by ArmorPierce »

Well, I got no sympathy for him. He was clamping down on prostitution whilst hiring them at the same time. What a fucktard.
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Post by Darth Wong »

I suppose his enthusiastic endorsement of Clinton for president will now lose some of its value ...
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Post by Stuart »

Darth Wong wrote:I suppose his enthusiastic endorsement of Clinton for president will now lose some of its value ...
Politically perhaps. From an entertainment point of view, you should hear the jokes ricocheting around inside the Beltway.

"Did you hear Spitzer has enthusiastically endorsed HRC? Gave her six diamonds."

That's just one of the tamer ones.
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Post by Elfdart »

If Spitzer pussies out and resigns, then this "scandal" will become officially the biggest pile of chickenshit ever. The Mann Act? An act designed to prevent interracial couples from fleeing the lynch mobs in the South and dating/marrying somewhere that they wouldn't be strung up? They might as well charge Spitzer under the Fugitive Slave Act and throw in a few counts of aggravated witchcraft while they're at it.
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If you want proof that this is just a Wowser Walpurgisnacht, take a look at what happened in New Jersey when Dem. Governor John Corzine's motorcade crashed and burned at over 90 mph (the speed limit was 65) -nearly killing the governor and several others. Speeding is a misdemeanor (like paying for sex), and several people were seriously injured and almost killed. And yet there was no mass hysteria, because recklessly endangering the lives of others is nothing compared to the evils of pussy.
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Post by LMSx »

Stuart wrote: I think most people would agree but the law is the way it is at the moment. The Mann Act was a good law for its time but those times have passed. It does need to be revised to reflect modern mores and transport facilities. The act itself is still very badly needed though.
Elfdart wrote: If Spitzer pussies out and resigns, then this "scandal" will become officially the biggest pile of chickenshit ever. The Mann Act? An act designed to prevent interracial couples from fleeing the lynch mobs in the South and dating/marrying somewhere that they wouldn't be strung up? They might as well charge Spitzer under the Fugitive Slave Act and throw in a few counts of aggravated witchcraft while they're at it.
Conflict!

I'm not an expert, but the Mann Act's first prosecution being for an interracial affair between a famous boxer and his girlfriend makes it sound like just another racist Jim Crow law.
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Post by Darth Wong »

Stuart wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:I suppose his enthusiastic endorsement of Clinton for president will now lose some of its value ...
Politically perhaps. From an entertainment point of view, you should hear the jokes ricocheting around inside the Beltway.

"Did you hear Spitzer has enthusiastically endorsed HRC? Gave her six diamonds."

That's just one of the tamer ones.
At least the man is consistent. If you like whores, then you'll obviously want to endorse Hillary.
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LMSx wrote:I'm not an expert, but the Mann Act's first prosecution being for an interracial affair between a famous boxer and his girlfriend makes it sound like just another racist Jim Crow law.
For some reason, I thought the Mann Act had been long ago struck down. Silly me.

Here's a history:
The Long, Colorful History of the Mann Act

by Eric Weiner

All Things Considered, March 11, 2008 · Federal prosecutors might charge New York's Democratic governor, Eliot Spitzer, under a relatively obscure — and controversial — 1910 law that was originally intended to combat forced prostitution and "debauchery." Its official name is the White Slave Traffic Act, but it's better known as the Mann Act, named after its author, Rep. James R. Mann (R-IL).

In recent years, the Mann Act has been used selectively. But it has not faded into irrelevance. Last week, four people suspected of running the Emperor's Club — the prostitution service that Spitzer allegedly frequented — were charged with violating the Mann Act, among other crimes including money laundering.

Enacted during a time of great change and "moral panic," the Mann Act was originally designed to combat forced prostitution. The law, however, has been applied broadly over the years and, critics say, used as a tool of political persecution and even blackmail. In the past century, thousands of people have been prosecuted under the Mann Act, including celebrities such as Charlie Chaplin, Frank Lloyd Wright, Chuck Berry and Jack Johnson.

Allegations of Racism

Johnson, the first African-American heavyweight boxing champion, was among the first to be charged under the act. In 1913, he was accused of ostensibly transporting a prostitute from Pittsburgh to Chicago. Johnson was convicted and given the maximum sentence: one year and one day. Critics, however, believe that Johnson's case was racially motivated — the "prostitute" was his white girlfriend.

In 1944, Charlie Chaplin was prosecuted under the Mann Act in a case stemming from a paternity suit involving the actress Joan Barry. Some believe the case was motivated by Chaplin's left-of-center political views. He was ultimately acquitted, but his image in the U.S. never fully recovered.

In 1959, singer Chuck Berry was convicted under the Mann Act of transporting across state lines an underage Apache girl who was arrested on a prostitution charge weeks later. He ended up serving 20 months in prison on a variety of charges.

A Product of Its Time

The Mann Act, perhaps more than most laws, was clearly a product of its time. At the turn of the last century, the Industrial Revolution had taken hold and the old order of rural, largely male-dominated America began to fade. New technologies, such as the typewriter, allowed many women to support themselves financially for the first time, and many flocked to the cities. The modern notion of dating was born.

With these changes came concerns about the country's moral underpinnings. By 1907, a full-fledged moral panic set in. There were rumors, taken as truth, that women were being forced into prostitution and shuttled around the country by vast networks controlled by immigrants, who were arriving in the U.S. by the millions. The plague of "white slavery" was on everyone's minds. Muckraking journalists fueled the hysteria with sensationalized stories of innocent girls kidnapped off the streets by foreigners, drugged, smuggled across the country and forced to work in brothels.


It was into this charged environment that the Mann Act was born. Signed into law by President Taft in 1910, the Act made it a crime to transport women across state lines "for the purpose of prostitution or debauchery, or for any other immoral purpose." It was that last clause "for any other immoral purpose" — that would prove the most problematic and give rise to concerns that the law enabled the government to legislate morality.

Amending the Mann Act

Over the years, the Supreme Court has repeatedly held that prosecution under the Mann Act was constitutional. The act has never been repealed, but it has been substantially amended in recent years. In 1978, Congress updated the definition of "transportation" in the act and added protection for minors of either sex against sexual exploitation.

A 1986 amendment further protected minors and replaced "debauchery" and "any other immoral purpose" with "any sexual activity for which any person can be charged with a criminal offense." That allowed the government to get out of the business of "legislating morality" while retaining the essence of the Mann Act as a weapon in the fight against human trafficking.
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Post by Stuart »

LMSx wrote: I'm not an expert, but the Mann Act's first prosecution being for an interracial affair between a famous boxer and his girlfriend makes it sound like just another racist Jim Crow law.
As a couple of people have pointed out, the Mann Act was originally passed to prevent forced prostitution. There was a perception (not unjustified) that young immigrant women in the large arrival centers were being abducted or tricked into questionable employment then shipped around the country to assorted brothels in non-immigrant areas. There, the women would literally be worked to death (40+ clients a day not being unusual) and replaced. The scale of the problem was exagerrated at the time; there was, however, a very real industry of that kind.

That the Mann Act was abused for various purposes is not open to question; there is no doubt that it was. However, it addressed a very real social problem that is still with us today. There are significant numbers of women (mostly from South East Asia) who are held in slavery-like conditions in various brothels. The Mann Act has been used to drop the hammer on those organizing that trade.

Some examples (taken from Trafficking of Women to the United States

"From on or about June 1995 until on or about January 1998, the Kwon family recruited and transported Chinese-Korean women from China to the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands for the purpose of exploiting and abusing them for profit. They were promised legitimate waitressing jobs but then forced to work at a karaoke club and submit to customers' sexual demands. Some of the women also complained of physical and sexual abuse by their bosses. The women were held at a barracks apartment. The defendants took their passports, visas, and airline tickets. The women were only allowed to leave the barracks apartment with permission and an escort. The women were threatened with violence, including death, if they left or attempted to leave without paying their debt."

"The defendants recruited women in China for jobs as waitresses in the Commonwealth of the Northern Marianas Islands in the District of Guam. Shortly after the women arrived and started working in the bar, they were pressed into service as prostitutes."

"In conjunction with Thai traffickers, Ludwig Janak, a German national who operated a tour guide service in Thailand, recruited Thai women to come to the United States to work. Several of the women were told they would have good jobs working in restaurants. Once in the US, Thai traffickers and a Korean madam forced the women into prostitution. The women were held against their will at a brothel house and forced to work as prostitutes until their $35,000 smuggling debt was paid off. The women were kept in the underground brothel by bars on the windows and 24-hour surveillance. The defendants required that each woman sleep with four to five hundred customers to pay off the smuggling fee."

In one Dallas brothel, Thai nationals were locked up and forced to work as prostitutes. They were treated like animals in that if they did not do as they were told, they would not receive any food.

"In 1998 in northern California, a Hmong gang kidnapped, raped, and forced into prostitution Hmong girls. There were roughly 15 girls, ages 13 to 15, whom were trafficked to other cities and forced to submit to sexual slavery for members of their own ethnic community. Even more recently... four teenage Hmong girls were lured to Detroit by Hmong men and boys where they were allegedly gang raped, assaulted, and threatened with death if they tried to escape."

"In August 1999, an organized crime task force in Atlanta, indicted 13 members of an Asian smuggling ring for trafficking up to 1,000 Asian women and girls, between the ages of 13 and 25, to Atlanta and other US cities for prostitution. The women and girls were held in bondage until their $30,000 to $40,000 contracts were paid off. One brothel was described by law enforcement as a “prison compound” with barbed wire, fences, chained dogs, and gang members who served as guards."

"In Los Angeles, traffickers kidnapped a Chinese woman, raped her, forced her into prostitution, posted guards to control her movements, and burned her with cigarettes. Asian street gangs such as Black Dragons and Koolboyz have provided protection to brothels where trafficked women are forcibly held."

The problem is that in such cases, it's often hard to get the girls in question to testify against those responsible for their abuse. They may be terrorized into silence or simply too ashamed to describe their ordeal in court. The Mann Act allows a prosecution without testimony from the victims since all the prosecution has to do is prove the girl crossed a state line - and if she arrived in San Francisco and was freed from captivity in (say) Omaha, that's a given.
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Spitzer is in his car, right now, on the way to a press conference to announce his resignation:
Eliot Spitzer expected to resign

By Stevenson Swanson

Tribune national correspondent

9:46 AM CDT, March 12, 2008

NEW YORK

Gov. Eliot Spitzer, the former self-described "steamroller" prosecutor whose political career was built on crusading campaigns against corporate wrong-doers, is expected to resign today, two days after allegations surfaced that he had been a client of a high-priced prostitution service, according to government sources.

Spitzer is to give a brief statement at 10:30 a.m. CDT in his Manhattan office, a spokesman said.

He reportedly will remain the state's chief executive through this week, after which Lt. Gov. David Paterson would become the 55th governor.

After a brief appearance Monday to make a terse apology to his family and the citizens of the Empire State, Spitzer had been sequestered in his Fifth Avenue apartment.

On Tuesday, a Republican leader in the state legislature said that if he would initiate impeachment proceedings against Spitzer if the governor did not resign.

Spitzer, a 48-year-old father of three teenage daughters, was identified as "Client 9" in a federal complaint against Emperors Club VIP, a prostitution service that reportedly charges its affluent clients $1,000 to $5,000 a hour. The New York governor, whose family wealth has been estimated at $500 million, allegedly arranged for a prostitute identified as "Kristen" to meet him at a Washington hotel last month, for which he paid her $4,300.

Spitzer's resignation comes after a stormy year as governor of the Empire State, during which his hard-charging prosecutor's personality seemed ill-suited in Albany, the state capital, where deal-making and jawboning are more often needed for a governor to accomplish his agenda.

Lt. Gov. David Paterson, a former state legislator from Harlem, will succeed Spitzer as governor, becoming the first African-American governor in the state's history. Paterson, who is legally blind, is the first person with a major physical disability to occupy the highest office in the state since Franklin D. Roosevelt, who was left paralyzed below the waist by polio.

Paterson, 53, would be the first governor in the nation's history to be legally blind. An infection that he suffered as an infant left him blind in his left eye and with severely limited sight in his right eye.

Newsday contributed to this report.
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Post by Vaporous »

And he's gone. A shame. He had a lot of promise. Very stupid of him to do what he did knowing how many enemies he had waiting in the wings. He gave them a sword, and they ran him through.
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Stuart
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Joined: 2004-10-26 09:23am
Location: The military-industrial complex

Post by Stuart »

FSTargetDrone wrote:Spitzer is in his car, right now, on the way to a press conference to announce his resignation:
Yup. he's gone. The Yahoo photoslide show shows his wife looking very unhappy. He'd be well advised to wear five pairs of underpants before going to bed tonight,
Nations do not survive by setting examples for others
Nations survive by making examples of others
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