What we have to look forward to after 4 years of Obama

[salm]

I like how it's only the "land of the free" when the evangelicals are happy. When they're not, it's suddenly an oppressive totalitarian state. I guess the irony that they're the ones often trying to legislate oppression escapes them.

The conservatives aren´t really about small government. They´ve only convinced everybody that they are by repeating it again and again. But if government means poking around in other peoples bedrooms then they love their government.

I´ll give that one to the libertarians. At least they generally mean small government when they say it.

[Darth Wong]

I don't know what's worse: this laughable fearmongering or the fact that such a large group of people considers common ideas like universal health care and anti-discrimination laws to be "far left".

[Strider]

Tel-Aviv nuked in 2010 under President Obama (and then Israel just rolls over and dies, ROFL)? It'd be more likely to see crucifixions in D.C. by 2011 under President Palin.

[Samuel]

Well, during the civil rights era, the "moderate" position was letting the states decide. Extremism was having the feds promote equality under the law.

That was at the time of Little Rock of course. The Panthers helped shift the definitions.

[General Zod]

Well, during the civil rights era, the "moderate" position was letting the states decide. Extremism was having the feds promote equality under the law.

That was at the time of Little Rock of course. The Panthers helped shift the definitions.

No, that definition still applies. Except instead of black people it's now gay people; just look at how many idiots think allowing gay marriage on a federal level is considered extremist.

[Pint0 Xtreme]

This letter actually brings a smile to my face. The asshole's pedantic and panic ranting is only going to make the Obama victory even sweeter. Let's hope for a sweeter outcome where Prop 8 also fails.

[Kodiak]

This is just out and out fear-mongering, and not even plausible. All this is based largely on the premise that Obama has been lying about his desire to work with all kinds of political ideologies and goes and appoints strongly liberal justices which, IMHO, is anything but guaranteed. Also, as a point of information, the policies of the Boy Scouts of America explicitly prohibit any scout leader sleeping in the same tent as a boy. In fact, unless you have two leaders who are BOTH depraved pedophiles working together this would never happen. Has there ever, in fact, been any documented case of child molestation by an openly gay man who was a scout leader? I doubt it. Likely any such cases were perpetrated by sick and perverted "Upstanding pillars of the community" that are closet cases of their perversions.

[Darth Wong]

This is just out and out fear-mongering, and not even plausible. All this is based largely on the premise that Obama has been lying about his desire to work with all kinds of political ideologies and goes and appoints strongly liberal justices which, IMHO, is anything but guaranteed.

That depends on your definition of "strongly liberal". According to James Dobson, only the "far left" advocates anti-discrimination laws, and many people would strongly disagree with that assessment.

Also, as a point of information, the policies of the Boy Scouts of America explicitly prohibit any scout leader sleeping in the same tent as a boy.

Minor nitpick: it's allowed, but only if the man is the boy's father. The regulations normally disallow a scout leader from being isolated and alone with a boy at any time, never mind in a tent.

In fact, unless you have two leaders who are BOTH depraved pedophiles working together this would never happen. Has there ever, in fact, been any documented case of child molestation by an openly gay man who was a scout leader? I doubt it. Likely any such cases were perpetrated by sick and perverted "Upstanding pillars of the community" that are closet cases of their perversions.

I would be far more worried to leave my son with James Dobson than to leave him at a Cub Scout meeting where one of the leaders was gay.

[Kodiak]

Minor nitpick: it's allowed, but only if the man is the boy's father. The regulations normally disallow a scout leader from being isolated and alone with a boy at any time, never mind in a tent.

Yes, there is that exception. The 1st thing I learned at scoutmaster orientation is their cornerstone principle of "Two-deep leadership" which says in short: If you don't have 2 or more adult leaders going, you're not going at all.

I would be far more worried to leave my son with James Dobson than to leave him at a Cub Scout meeting where one of the leaders was gay.

Is it my imagination, or does the religious far-right reduce homosexuals to sociopaths who can't control their urges for more than 30 minutes? A gay man would have as much desire to molest a young boy as a hetero man would to molest a young girl, and yet they're constantly characiturized as sexual deviants with no control. It makes me sad to be a Christian.

[erik_t]

Also, as a point of information, the policies of the Boy Scouts of America explicitly prohibit any scout leader sleeping in the same tent as a boy.

Minor nitpick: it's allowed, but only if the man is the boy's father. The regulations normally disallow a scout leader from being isolated and alone with a boy at any time, never mind in a tent.

Are you sure on this? It wasn't the case ten-ish years ago, when one-on-one meetings with the scoutmaster were an explicit item on the rank-advancement checklist.

Not that I think such meetings are a scary threat, I'm just not sure if your statement is accurate in detail (although it's pretty close in general).

[Darth Wong]

Is it my imagination, or does the religious far-right reduce homosexuals to sociopaths who can't control their urges for more than 30 minutes?

It's not your imagination. I actually ran into a guy face-to-face who tried to peddle that line on me once. The exchange was like this:

HIM: Homosexuals seem to have an unhealthy urge to be pedophiles.
ME: What do you base that on?
HIM: I don't know how to explain it, but you have to look at the facts. Most pedophiles are homosexual.
ME: And what do you base that on?
HIM: Just look at the news. Look at all the homosexual pedophiles they catch in the news! Don't you watch the news?
ME: Sure I do. I saw the news about Elizabeth Smart. I saw the news about Cecilia Zhang. I saw the news about Leslie Mahafee and Kristen French. Again, what are you basing this on?
HIM: Hmmm, now that I think about it, you may be right. There are a lot of heterosexual pedophiles too.

This guy was actually more reasonable than the norm, in the sense that he actually conceded the point. But it's still a real problem that he was so sure of himself before our little discussion, even though he had obviously not bothered putting much thought into it.

A gay man would have as much desire to molest a young boy as a hetero man would to molest a young girl, and yet they're constantly characiturized as sexual deviants with no control. It makes me sad to be a Christian.

People like me believe that pedophilia is a psychological disorder: the result of a malformed or disturbed mind. Normal people don't have these urges.

People like James Dobson believe that pedophilia is the result of "weakness", or people "falling to temptation": an argument which (disturbingly enough) presumes that we all have these urges, and some of us are just better at controlling them (presumably with God's help) than others. Personally, I think this implies that if they think everyone has these urges, they probably have these urges themselves.

[Darth Wong]

Minor nitpick: it's allowed, but only if the man is the boy's father. The regulations normally disallow a scout leader from being isolated and alone with a boy at any time, never mind in a tent.

Are you sure on this? It wasn't the case ten-ish years ago, when one-on-one meetings with the scoutmaster were an explicit item on the rank-advancement checklist.

Not that I think such meetings are a scary threat, I'm just not sure if your statement is accurate in detail (although it's pretty close in general).

I don't know about the situation ten years ago. All I know is that I was told in orientation that the regulations today strictly prohibit a leader from being alone and isolated with a child at any time. Mind you, it's still possible to have a one-on-one meeting: it's just that you have to be within clear view of another leader at the time. He doesn't have to be listening in on your conversation.

[Solauren]

The Boy Scouts no longer exist as an organization. They chose to disband rather than be forced to obey the Supreme Court decision that they would have to hire homosexual scoutmasters and allow them to sleep in tents with young boys.

Focus on the Family are still conflating homosexuality and pedophilia, I see. What vile bigots. Are they trying to dehumanize gay people and encourage violence, or do they just consider that a nice bonus?

You know, I was a boy scout, and I don't remember my Boy Scout leader sleeping in the tent with any of us.

He had a seperate tent he slept in, near the fire, more or less in the center of the camp.

When we were in a cabin, he was in a seperate room.

So, I have to wonder why this man thinks Scoutmasters should sleep in the tent with young boys.....

[Aratech]

Also, as a point of information, the policies of the Boy Scouts of America explicitly prohibit any scout leader sleeping in the same tent as a boy.

Minor nitpick: it's allowed, but only if the man is the boy's father. The regulations normally disallow a scout leader from being isolated and alone with a boy at any time, never mind in a tent.

Are you sure on this? It wasn't the case ten-ish years ago, when one-on-one meetings with the scoutmaster were an explicit item on the rank-advancement checklist.

Not that I think such meetings are a scary threat, I'm just not sure if your statement is accurate in detail (although it's pretty close in general).

If it was anything like the ones I was in, you'd have the assistant scout master and J. Assistant Scoutmaster would be just on the other side of the door, managing the rest of the scouts who are waiting their turn to be interviewed. Eagle Scout Board of Review was much the same, except it was three scout masters instead of one. Interestingly, one of the questions I was asked was about homosexuals being allowed within the scouts.

[SCRawl]

I started reading this thing, and after the first little while I was wondering if it was meant to be a best-case scenario. Then I realized that no, they don't want this stuff to happen. Good for a chuckle.

Several things set off my bullshit meter, but the Boy Scout scaremongering deserves a response from me. I was in the Canadian version of that organization for several years during my childhood, and I can tell you that this line:

The Boy Scouts no longer exist as an organization. They chose to disband rather than be forced to obey the Supreme Court decision that they would have to hire homosexual scoutmasters and allow them to sleep in tents with young boys.

is just flat out wrong, if policies in the US are anything like here. Scout leaders are not permitted to sleep in the same tents as the scouts.

[Kodiak]

Are you sure on this? It wasn't the case ten-ish years ago, when one-on-one meetings with the scoutmaster were an explicit item on the rank-advancement checklist.

Not that I think such meetings are a scary threat, I'm just not sure if your statement is accurate in detail (although it's pretty close in general).

Usually what they do is have the meetings "1-on-1" but in one corner of a large room where you are seen but not heard. Also I've done "scoutmaster conferences" in rooms with the doors open or outside. There's really no reason to do 1-on-1's in locked rooms away from all eyes and ears. Also, the kid's Dad or mom is usually right outside waiting to take them home.

[SCRawl]

Ghetto edit: I thought I was making a new point about the scouts, but ended up just being another "me-too". Apparently I missed a number of posts. Sorry 'bout that.

[apocolypse]

As sort of an odd happenstance, the bottom of Wong's board has a "Yes on 8" google ad that seems to be semi-permanantly attached.

[Darth Wong]

I've never seen one of these "Yes on 8" Google ads. Google's ad system must be fairly sophisticated: sophisticated enough to know that I don't live in California so this ad is not targeted to me.

[General Zod]

I've never seen one of these "Yes on 8" Google ads. Google's ad system must be fairly sophisticated: sophisticated enough to know that I don't live in California so this ad is not targeted to me.

I haven't seen them either; although I am getting ads for Jenna Jameson's Zombie Strippers.

[erik_t]

Huh. Mine were in a separate room, and I guess it never occurred to me to have a private-ish meeting in a big open room. Again I don't personally see it as an issue, but whatever.

[Lord Poe]

I've never seen one of these "Yes on 8" Google ads. Google's ad system must be fairly sophisticated: sophisticated enough to know that I don't live in California so this ad is not targeted to me.

I'm not reading all that shit in the OP. I read the first few paragraphs of this "fantasy" letter, and I came away with the notion that I'll find a random cock in my ass if I vote for Obama, is that about it?

[apocolypse]

I've never seen one of these "Yes on 8" Google ads. Google's ad system must be fairly sophisticated: sophisticated enough to know that I don't live in California so this ad is not targeted to me.

Huh, in my naivete I just assumed that everyone was seeing them. I'm seeing a new version of the same one now actually too.

[Aratech]

I've never seen one of these "Yes on 8" Google ads. Google's ad system must be fairly sophisticated: sophisticated enough to know that I don't live in California so this ad is not targeted to me.

Huh, in my naivete I just assumed that everyone was seeing them. I'm seeing a new version of the same one now actually too.

All I get is 'Joe the Plumber' and 'Palin! A proven Maverick!'

You may insert your laughter at the latter at any time.

[Drooling Iguana]

I'm seeing an ad for this. Far more appropriate, I think.