What Defeat Will Do To The GOP (Op-ED)

[Guardsman Bass]

Basically, they're afraid that if Obama loses, and it comes out to something like the supposed Bradley Effect (meaning that Obama does drastically worse than predicted, particularly among white voters), then black people will riot in the big cities, like they did back in 1968. It's not going to happen, though; the 1968 riots were a combination of a youth bulge, declining employment in the ghettoes, and the turbulence of de-segregation.

[ray245]

I've been hearing a lot of rightwingers mentioning that "blacks will riot if Obama loses", what are they trying to say? That you should vote for Obama to avoid that? Can anyone explain this to me?

They're trying to convince everyone that black people are dangerous savages and their influence on American politics should be resisted.

Don't forget their influence on White Women. They can't be trusted with the white women

Let's see how they are going to convince the general public with that that line of thought, given that Obama's mother IS a white woman.

[salm]

Let's see how they are going to convince the general public with that that line of thought, given that Obama's mother IS a white woman.

Have you not noticed that most people don´t give a damn if someone has mixed parents. If one of them is black then the kid is considered black.
It makes my fingernails curl everytime i hear it but that´s how it is.

[ray245]

Let's see how they are going to convince the general public with that that line of thought, given that Obama's mother IS a white woman.

Have you not noticed that most people don´t give a damn if someone has mixed parents. If one of them is black then the kid is considered black.
It makes my fingernails curl everytime i hear it but that´s how it is.

If they are selling this kind of idea to the right-wing conservative part of the US, then this kind of actions and idea might work with them.

The problem is selling these kind of ideas to the centrist in the US. I doubt this kind of ideas can be sold to the 'centrists'.

[The Spartan]

The problem is selling these kind of ideas to the centrist in the US. I doubt this kind of ideas can be sold to the 'centrists'.

The very fact that Obama is still considered a black candidate, in spite of being half-white, should clue you into this notion being very, very wrong.

[Medic]

It's simple what the Republican Party will become, besides simple obstructionists. (at least a sizable portion I bet will move in lock-step to stonewall the Dems)

Yes, they will be the arbiters of fiscal responsibility again. Watch them actually care about the budget deficit now that it isn't their responsibility. You already see Fox News spouting this shit about all of Obama's energy and infrastructure initiatives to help the economy. Quote Jane Skinner Fox News:

Where's the money gonna come from?

Gotta love that fair and balanced smell in the morning. Smells like -- hypocrisy.

Where the FUCK were they the last 6-7 years of the GWOT and W's spend-and-cut-taxes? To reiterate the current consensus, the right-wing brings very little to the national discourse at this point in time. 1994 they came in with a head of steam but grew corrupt. I really hope if the Dems have a rough 2 years under Obama because of the weight of the problems W's handed off to him, that they remind voters "remember the LAST time Republicans Revolution? Remember: they failed to keep their promises and gave us much of the problems we have now. Think they'll be any different?" Time will tell if Republicans genuinely restructure their party, ideals and priorities.

I'm not holding my breath.

[ray245]

The problem is selling these kind of ideas to the centrist in the US. I doubt this kind of ideas can be sold to the 'centrists'.

The very fact that Obama is still considered a black candidate, in spite of being half-white, should clue you into this notion being very, very wrong.

Oh well, I do hope that this view can be changed in the next few years.

[Samuel]

The problem is selling these kind of ideas to the centrist in the US. I doubt this kind of ideas can be sold to the 'centrists'.

The very fact that Obama is still considered a black candidate, in spite of being half-white, should clue you into this notion being very, very wrong.

Oh well, I do hope that this view can be changed in the next few years.

It won't. You have to remember, that in the US we call white people white- there is no equivalent for the term African-Americans. White is considered the default and if you aren't white, you are one category or another of "colored people" (in the past) or -American (now).

Countries that adopt a more nuanced view do so because the population is so mixed they can't just ignore it. That is what occurred in Latin America- they invented a new term because so many are half Indian and half white- Mestizos.

It is unlikely to occur in the US- too many white people are completely insulated from non-whites.

[Darth Wong]

Don't forget their influence on White Women. They can't be trusted with the white women

Let's see how they are going to convince the general public with that that line of thought, given that Obama's mother IS a white woman.

You don't know anything about how white racists think, do you? It's about racial "purity" for them; there is "pure white" and then there is everything else.

[Jaevric]

Not to mention the fact that, to a white racist, having mixed-race parents is arguably worse than having same-race parents because there is obviously something wrong with a white man (or worse, a white woman) who would have children with someone from an "inferior" ethnicity.

Perhaps unsurprisingly, for a white man to have sex with someone from another race seems to be generally acceptable as long as they aren't marrying her or acknowledging any kids that result; for a white woman to even have sex with someone from another race is an abberation even without bringing kids into it.

At least that seems to be the consensus among the local racists I've heard voice an opinion.

[JME2]

Indeed.

I've been wondering about this potential fallout, both publicly and personally. In regards to the latter for I'm actually afraid to talk to the aunt I mentioned in the Election thread for a couple of days. I love her, but while she's become disenfranchised with Bush, she is still an ardent GOP supporter. If Prop 8 had failed, she'd probably be going even more nuts than just Obama's ascension.

[ArcturusMengsk]

Here's the way I think - I think - the next couple of election cycles will go down:

Obama will extricate us from the Bush Administration's adventurism and will solve the energy/economic crisis, thus assuring his second term. The G.O.P. will completely radicalize in 2012, fielding the conservative equivalent of George McGovern and ensuring it suffers a greater defeat than the one just inflicted on it last night. I don't believe Biden will be the standard-bearer in 2016, but if Obama is as successful as I think he will be the Democrats will probably be able to get a one-term President out of the deal, running on Obama's record. It wouldn't surprise me for the Republican Party to undergo an ideological shift by 2020, and I'd imagine they'd give a "Rockefeller Republican" (such as David Petraeus) the nod in that cycle and win big.

Of course, external events may prove me wrong, and I'm working off a gut feeling. But this seems a possibility to me.

[The Yosemite Bear]

hell I'm suprised that they haven't started showing "Birth of a Nation" at Palin Rallies/

[Eframepilot]

It's simple what the Republican Party will become, besides simple obstructionists. (at least a sizable portion I bet will move in lock-step to stonewall the Dems)

Yes, they will be the arbiters of fiscal responsibility again. Watch them actually care about the budget deficit now that it isn't their responsibility. You already see Fox News spouting this shit about all of Obama's energy and infrastructure initiatives to help the economy. Quote Jane Skinner Fox News:

Where's the money gonna come from?

Gotta love that fair and balanced smell in the morning. Smells like -- hypocrisy.

Where the FUCK were they the last 6-7 years of the GWOT and W's spend-and-cut-taxes? To reiterate the current consensus, the right-wing brings very little to the national discourse at this point in time. 1994 they came in with a head of steam but grew corrupt. I really hope if the Dems have a rough 2 years under Obama because of the weight of the problems W's handed off to him, that they remind voters "remember the LAST time Republicans Revolution? Remember: they failed to keep their promises and gave us much of the problems we have now. Think they'll be any different?" Time will tell if Republicans genuinely restructure their party, ideals and priorities.

I'm not holding my breath.

Fortunately the Republicans have blown all credibility on being the party of fiscal responsibility. They clearly showed themselves to be worse than the Democrats in every respect except raising taxes. Their only hope of regaining power in the next eight years is for Obama and the Democrats to completely blow it. They may. But Obama has shown how incredibly dangerous it is to underestimate him.

[Captain Kruger]

I have to agree with the predictions of the Right going more radical…because it's already happening in my own house. My roommate is an absolutely rabid Conservative Christian Republican down to the very core. He didn't like McCain because he wasn't far enough to the right and he worships Palin like the Second Fucking Coming. I told him McCain would've had a better shot of getting support from centrists if he hadn't picked Wacko Alaska Woman, but he scoffed at that and said he didn't care about centrists; the party should've stuck to the Republican base. The fact that about 60% of American voters are centrists and this election cycle was naturally hostile to Republicans was totally lost on him. And then there's the fact that he believes to the last word every single drop of rumormongering about Obama...he's a closet Muslim and Marxist, he shares Jeremiah Wright's beliefs, he knowingly counts terrorists as his friends, etc. Never mind the fact that all his "information" comes from Fox News, the Right's unofficial propaganda channel. In his own words, Obama's win proved that "there's a lot of stupid people in this country."

[Darth Wong]

It's funny how hardcore Republicans like your roommate think their critics are stupid, yet the Democrats won by taking the college-educated vote. The GOP's core strength was in the old Confederate states and the Midwest flyover states. They tried to make a prophet out of "Joe the Plumber", for fuck's sake. The party deliberately caters to the stupid and ignorant.

[Flagg]

It's funny how hardcore Republicans like your roommate think their critics are stupid, yet the Democrats won by taking the college-educated vote. The GOP's core strength was in the old Confederate states and the Midwest flyover states. They tried to make a prophet out of "Joe the Plumber", for fuck's sake. The party deliberately caters to the stupid and ignorant.

You mean "Sam the Welfare Recipient" right?


Yeah, turns out "Joe" (Sam's middle name) was on welfare twice, so he truly is a republican icon. You know, a rampant lying hypocritical douchebag.

[Captain Kruger]

It's funny how hardcore Republicans like your roommate think their critics are stupid, yet the Democrats won by taking the college-educated vote. The GOP's core strength was in the old Confederate states and the Midwest flyover states. They tried to make a prophet out of "Joe the Plumber", for fuck's sake. The party deliberately caters to the stupid and ignorant.

There's a skewed sense of reality involved that I just don't get. A few weeks back, he actually had the gall to tell me that the more educated people are, the more likely they are to vote conservative. And he also said that Obama's going to ruin our health care system because socialized medicine can't possibly work. (**cough** CANADA **cough**) He's clearly from another planet and somehow forgot he moved to Earth. I guess I should've turned off my ears around him after he stated that all morality comes from God.

[Samuel]

It's funny how hardcore Republicans like your roommate think their critics are stupid, yet the Democrats won by taking the college-educated vote. The GOP's core strength was in the old Confederate states and the Midwest flyover states. They tried to make a prophet out of "Joe the Plumber", for fuck's sake. The party deliberately caters to the stupid and ignorant.

There's a skewed sense of reality involved that I just don't get. A few weeks back, he actually had the gall to tell me that the more educated people are, the more likely they are to vote conservative. And he also said that Obama's going to ruin our health care system because socialized medicine can't possibly work. (**cough** CANADA **cough**) He's clearly from another planet and somehow forgot he moved to Earth. I guess I should've turned off my ears around him after he stated that all morality comes from God.

It is what comes from never having left the United States. Americans are too provincial... although me saying that is calling the kettle blacks. Still, it is true- people in the US need to travel more to foreign countries, and not just weekend stay overs.

You still will have stupid people, but then someone in their group can always go "funny, it doesn't work that way in xwereistan".

[Patrick Degan]

It's funny how hardcore Republicans like your roommate think their critics are stupid, yet the Democrats won by taking the college-educated vote. The GOP's core strength was in the old Confederate states and the Midwest flyover states. They tried to make a prophet out of "Joe the Plumber", for fuck's sake. The party deliberately caters to the stupid and ignorant.

There's a skewed sense of reality involved that I just don't get. A few weeks back, he actually had the gall to tell me that the more educated people are, the more likely they are to vote conservative.

Your flatmate can flog bullshit like that because part of the Right Wing's propaganda barrage has been that liberalism is based entirely on emotion, whereas conservatism is the result of considered thought and philosophy —therefore, conservatism is the more intellectual position, therefore higher education must automatically result in conservatism, therefore the higher educated must naturally gravitate to voting conservative. Unless the campuses have been thoroughly infiltrated by Marxists, that is. Because it's just simply impossible that anybody with any education could possibly reject conservatism unless it's message has been blocked or subverted.

And this is what they sell to the knuckledragging mouthbreathers who drink GOP-brand KoolAid; most of whom haven't cracked open a book since leaving high school, as well the Randroids.

[The Yosemite Bear]

This has got to be the biggest bit of psychos.... Hatred for allthings requiring observation and examination. Yet they claim to be logicall...

[Samuel]

This has got to be the biggest bit of psychos.... Hatred for allthings requiring observation and examination. Yet they claim to be logicall...

It is perfectly logical and entirely irrational. Sort of like Aristotle come to think of it.

[Broomstick]

Let's see how they are going to convince the general public with that that line of thought, given that Obama's mother IS a white woman.

Have you not noticed that most people don´t give a damn if someone has mixed parents. If one of them is black then the kid is considered black.
It makes my fingernails curl everytime i hear it but that´s how it is.

If they are selling this kind of idea to the right-wing conservative part of the US, then this kind of actions and idea might work with them.

The problem is selling these kind of ideas to the centrist in the US. I doubt this kind of ideas can be sold to the 'centrists'.

Ray, I'm getting fucking tired of you spouting off about the US in a manner that shows you are completely clueless about US culture.

For better or worse, Obama is a black man in the US. This is because his father was black, and because anyone with functioning eyeballs can take one look at him and see he has recent African ancestry. For the very same reason, his sister Maya is Asian, because her father was from Indonesia. That's right - they're half-siblings and in the US they are considered to be of two different races even if in the same breath the speaker mentions "and they both have the same white mother". That is the culture, whether conservative, centrist, or flaming liberal.

Of course, anyone with functioning eyeballs can look at Mr. Obama and see he also has recent Caucasian ancestry, too (ditto for his half-sister). We aren't so stupid we don't notice these things. Nonetheless, those of mixed ancestry are usually lumped in with the non-white parent.

[Patrick Degan]

This has got to be the biggest bit of psychos.... Hatred for allthings requiring observation and examination. Yet they claim to be logicall...

It is perfectly logical and entirely irrational. Sort of like Aristotle come to think of it.

I had thought of the parallels to Aristotle as well.

[ray245]

Ray, I'm getting fucking tired of you spouting off about the US in a manner that shows you are completely clueless about US culture.

For better or worse, Obama is a black man in the US. This is because his father was black, and because anyone with functioning eyeballs can take one look at him and see he has recent African ancestry. For the very same reason, his sister Maya is Asian, because her father was from Indonesia. That's right - they're half-siblings and in the US they are considered to be of two different races even if in the same breath the speaker mentions "and they both have the same white mother". That is the culture, whether conservative, centrist, or flaming liberal.

Of course, anyone with functioning eyeballs can look at Mr. Obama and see he also has recent Caucasian ancestry, too (ditto for his half-sister). We aren't so stupid we don't notice these things. Nonetheless, those of mixed ancestry are usually lumped in with the non-white parent.

Well, I don't consider myself to be really knowledgeable on US culture, due to the fact that I never lived in the US. I would loved to travel there if I can afford to...but that is something that is left for the future.

Is there anyone in the US, who is from a mixed descent, and is considered to be a 'white' as opposed to a black or Asian?