Stas Bush wrote:That would be a massive denial of reality. The strategic "big push" to expunge US military bases frome everywhere in Central Asia has begun long before Obama was even becoming considered for a President.
Well, unfortunately, that's what the neo-cons are best at; massive denial of reality. So it's just par for the course.
No. It is just politics. Politicians take the credit for sucesses started long before they were in office and get blamed for mistakes started long before as well.
Russia re-associating with its old republics is neither a victory or a defeat, thus why your point is irrelevant. The lack of reality from neo-cons is their trying to make it into one.
The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. -- Wikipedia's No Original Research policy page.
apocolypse wrote:
Here's where I would disagree. Perhaps it's semantics, but I do not consider them anything of the nature. Now, if the Tajik et al governments are now obligated to stay in this union with no chance of removing themselves, then I would agree with you. However, I do not see anything stating as much, and would be rather surprised if the countries allowed such a stipulation. They are still autonomous, but have pledged to cooperate for mutual benefit.
Legally. In terms of the actual power dynamics, the fact that Moscow can intervene in those republics at-will means they are not autonomous at all. The situation is analogus to the USA and Cuba in the early 20th century, before Castro, I'd say, except it was mutually entered into... But it still lets Moscow dictate policy and control part of the army and police of the other states.
The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. -- Wikipedia's No Original Research policy page.
I guess this is a reasonable, workable precaution against the other ex-Soviet republics and regions either getting delusions of grandeur like Georgia or becoming feral like Chechnya. Back in the 1970s there was a brief, relatively obscure border skirmish between Red China and the Soviets, it has even been directly referenced in World War Z.
'Alright guard, begin the unnecessarily slow moving dipping mechanism...' - Dr. Evil
'Secondly, I don't see why "income inequality" is a bad thing. Poverty is not an injustice. There is no such thing as causes for poverty, only causes for wealth. Poverty is not a wrong, but taking money from those who have it to equalize incomes is basically theft, which is wrong.' - Typical Randroid
'I think it's gone a little bit wrong.' - The Doctor
If we could wipe out the leadership of Al-Qaeda, or otherwise get a moral victory that would let us get out of Afghanistan without looking bad, then frankly the Russians and their supposed Counter-NATO are welcome to the country - in fact, I'd actively encourage them to get their noses into it.
“It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life.” -Jean-Luc Picard
"Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them." -Margaret Atwood
Call me stupid, but I didn't actually see any mention in the article of Russia having supreme control over these new forces in a way that would reduce the other states into mere vassals (they are based in Russia under single command, yes; but nothing else). Presumably they can still cancel the treaty and/or withdraw their own troops from this coalition.
This is a far cry from an empire; and whatever people may have thought, Russia was and still is one of the Great Powers. This maybe confirms it in the minds of many, but it doesn't actually change anything, unless Russia starts to propose more and more similar treaties that would truly reduce the other contributors into vassals and autonomous members like the Grand Duchy of Finland of old.
Confiteor Deo omnipotenti; beatae Mariae semper Virgini; beato Michaeli Archangelo; sanctis Apostolis, omnibus sanctis... Tibit Pater, quia peccavi nimis, cogitatione, verbo et opere, mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa! Kyrie Eleison!
The Imperial Senate (defunct) * Knights Astrum Clades * The Mess
The Central Asian states have made an art form of plying the rapids between their three large neighbors. Few of them will wish to part with any of the money that really paying into a mutual aid agreement would require. Why should the Kazakhs rush to waste treasure (or blood) in Eastern European conflicts?
The Shanghai Cooperation Organization had enough trouble over Ossetia. None of Russia's "partners" was particularly happy to give quiet sanction to a breakaway. And many of the Central Asian republics would much prefer Nuboco to Southstream, given Russia's history of hardball.
This is a positive step for Russia, but not a sweeping victory for all time.
Tiriol wrote:Call me stupid, but I didn't actually see any mention in the article of Russia having supreme control over these new forces in a way that would reduce the other states into mere vassals (they are based in Russia under single command, yes; but nothing else). Presumably they can still cancel the treaty and/or withdraw their own troops from this coalition.
This is a far cry from an empire; and whatever people may have thought, Russia was and still is one of the Great Powers. This maybe confirms it in the minds of many, but it doesn't actually change anything, unless Russia starts to propose more and more similar treaties that would truly reduce the other contributors into vassals and autonomous members like the Grand Duchy of Finland of old.
This sounds a hell of lot more like NATO's STANAVFORLANT (but on land) then any real attempt to start a second Russian Empire.
M1891/30: A bad day on the range is better then a good day at work.
