weemadando wrote:Of course they haven't but that isn't the goddamn point. Proxy wars tend to be in shithole countries with minimal impacts on international trade. But last I check Iran wasn't also funding a proxy Navy to extort tolls on it's behalf in the Straits of Hormuz. Or China doing the same in the Straits of Malacca.
Iran wouldn't dare because the last time they did, they got a good and thorough smack down by the US Navy. Neither would China because they would effectively endanger any ties they had with SEA or the USN for that matter and destroy any good will effectively in the region.
It's a dangerous fucking path to walk down. Because like it or not, we are reliant on sea-lanes to keep economies rolling and the moment we have event a hint of a return to privateering then we had better damn well hope that every country is as magnanimous and fair as your own.
Privateering was only effective in times when there was no dominant navy. On the other hand, the USN practically dominates every corner of the globe and no navy would dare challenge the USN too far from home waters.
If the fucking problem is a letter of marque given to rogue companies, give it to the damn navies who have stationed themselves there, or to navies to run the Q-Ships. Most shipping companies probably can't afford Q-ships themselves because no insurance company would insure a ship that would deliberately put itself in harm's way. I didn't even fucking suggest giving letters of marques to just about any tom dick and harry so this is one large strawman to hoist on a stick.
STGOD: Byzantine Empire Your spirit, diseased as it is, refuses to allow you to give up, no matter what threats you face... and whatever wreckage you leave behind you.
Kreia
weemadando wrote:Of course they haven't but that isn't the goddamn point. Proxy wars tend to be in shithole countries with minimal impacts on international trade. But last I check Iran wasn't also funding a proxy Navy to extort tolls on it's behalf in the Straits of Hormuz. Or China doing the same in the Straits of Malacca.
Iran wouldn't dare because the last time they did, they got a good and thorough smack down by the US Navy. Neither would China because they would effectively endanger any ties they had with SEA or the USN for that matter and destroy any good will effectively in the region.
It's a dangerous fucking path to walk down. Because like it or not, we are reliant on sea-lanes to keep economies rolling and the moment we have event a hint of a return to privateering then we had better damn well hope that every country is as magnanimous and fair as your own.
Privateering was only effective in times when there was no dominant navy. On the other hand, the USN practically dominates every corner of the globe and no navy would dare challenge the USN too far from home waters.
If the fucking problem is a letter of marque given to rogue companies, give it to the damn navies who have stationed themselves there, or to navies to run the Q-Ships. Most shipping companies probably can't afford Q-ships themselves because no insurance company would insure a ship that would deliberately put itself in harm's way. I didn't even fucking suggest giving letters of marques to just about any tom dick and harry so this is one large strawman to hoist on a stick.
That was my original point - that we have to have gov'ts controlling the sea lanes, not private enterprise. I interpreted your original post to mean that the corporations, not the gov'ts should be seeking the solution.
Kanastrous wrote:Do national navies actually need letters of marque?
Doesn't a national navy's status as an armed force of a national government grant it the equivalent of the privileges conferred by a letter of marque?
More or less, but it seems that there is a certain reluctance to pursue the pirates vigorously for some obscene reason beyond making a scene out of it. As if they have no mandate to pursue them vigorously. That, and the shipping companies do not want those navies to damage their ships.
STGOD: Byzantine Empire Your spirit, diseased as it is, refuses to allow you to give up, no matter what threats you face... and whatever wreckage you leave behind you.
Kreia
Stargate Nerd wrote:Do shipping companies even want someone attacking the pirates?
No they don't. Which is why I say they are a bunch of spineless morons. But hey, seems like they would rather pay hefty insurance premiums and pay ransoms than to deal with the problem permanently.
Yes, deal with the problem permanently and in the process risk creating a whole new fucking world of problems as suddenly every gov't with an agenda starts handing out letters of marque to various groups on their own soil and suddenly every single shipping lane in the world becomes a tollway patrolled by pirates masquerading as PMCs.
Did you even read the post tree you quoted? Stargate Nerd asked if the shipping companies want someone attacking the pirates in response to my pointing out that the shipping companies don't want the Navy to deal with the problem, Fingolfin answered no, and you start ranting about privateers? The point is that the shipping companies don't want anyone, including national navies, dealing with the problem, which is a large part of the problem itself. That I wonder who's paying Blackwater is peripheral to the point. And I still don't know, because you hijacked the damn thread. So: Since the shipping companies don't want people shooting at the pirates, and the United States has a navy to shoot the pirates with if it really wants the pirates shot, who the hell is paying Blackwater?
I wasn't really thinking Blackwater having their own ship and patrolling as much as mercenaries like them being hired to be on the ships in question and guard against pirates.
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who did not.
His Divine Shadow wrote:I wasn't really thinking Blackwater having their own ship and patrolling as much as mercenaries like them being hired to be on the ships in question and guard against pirates.
They offer that service as well. My brother, who currently is sailing on a tanker, believes that to be quite futile however, as the shipping companies are afraid of legal issues and of course there is the fact that Blackwater is not what one would describe as disciplined. Finally, you need quite a few of those guys to really guard a ship that is several hundred meters long and then you run into the problem of costs. If it costs you more than one million to guard a ship on that trip, then you really cut into profits.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
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A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------ My LPs
The Blackwater thing is old news. As of last October, they were in talks with 13 shipping companies for escort services, using their ship the McArthur, a converted oceanographic research vessel. The Japanese hired them, too, as it turns out.
Though, this was all last year. Who knows what Blackwater is going to do next, or what they even have the capability of doing? Apparently they changed their name to Xe and have a new CEO, and the State Department has already decided not to renew their contract with them.
