Opinions which really do prove stupidity

[Atlan]

Already mentioned, but anyway:

Smokers defending their addiction. From stupid rationalizations about how it isn't as bad as people say, to full-blown conspiracy theories and persecution complexes.

This could be said about all addictions, but in the case of smoking, a child could tell you that it is disgusting, and makes her dizzy or worse. And children could also see how forcing people around you to breathe your second-hand smoke is not only a sign of idiocy, but a sign of extreme shelfisness (aka being an asshole).

Just as with Noah's Ark, it's peer pressure that keeps smoking acceptable, and even worse, it's peer pressure what gets people into the habit in the first place.

Yup. People claiming that they didn't knew smoking was BAD. Bullshit. I've been young, I've tried a smoke. Almost everyone in my class did. The first time you inhale, it feels like you want to cough your lungs out onto the floor.
THAT is your sign that smoking is BAD. The very first time you try it it's filthy and makes you feel like crap. No further signs needed, except, all the cool kids are doing it...

[Adept]

What about (though their numbers resemble almost oblivion) flat-earthers? It might be easy to see why a child might be swayed by this proposition at first (through common sensory experience on a day-to-day basis), but a lot of children also learn from a very young age through both very basic empirical data on how the Earth functions and detailed photographs from space that BLINDINGLY indicate that the Earth is spherical. Most children are clever enough to realize that their senses do not always tell them exactly how the world is, and it is shocking to me that some adults still (seemingly) prescribe to the ludicrous notion that the Earth is flat.

[Kitsune]

One thing is that I have heard that the Flat Earth Society was really just one person.....
Just a very loud one.
You can find a nut to believe almost anything

I mean that there is a claimed history but is that all real or just fiction?

[Traveller]

For me, the opinion that every single issue has an opposite(usually only one of course) and equally valid counter-argument that demands 'equal time' is the one that does it for me. Mostly an American invention, but its starting to gain traction everywhere as the perferred unspoken 'rule' by which contentious issues are discussed. Even most rationalists seem afraid to point out the simple fact that some ideas simply lack merit of ANY sort, and dont deserve 'equal time' much less a hearing.

Examples, the Earth is round-get over it

No amount of 'equal time' will make evolution go away or stop happening

Local Example, the media gives MORE than 'equal time' to the 'Lets keep dumping Raw sewage into the Pacific Ocean Crowd'. Why do they get so much press coverage when a lot of there material is outright false, misleading and or self-serving..I honestly cant say.

etc..etc

[Plekhanov]

Noah's Ark is offcourse a classic which is hard to top in terms of stupidity, but for another example I'll go for astrology. Propably vastly underrated in terms of the number of people who believe in it (after all, you can be of any faith and still believe in astrology on the side).

Homeopathy. I acknowledge the existance of the placebo effect but comon, it's just expensive water you're drinking

Veganism. I cannot see how for a normal person this can be healthy in any way

In what way is making the choice to not eat animal products 'proof of stupidity'?

[Rye]

Noah's Ark is offcourse a classic which is hard to top in terms of stupidity, but for another example I'll go for astrology. Propably vastly underrated in terms of the number of people who believe in it (after all, you can be of any faith and still believe in astrology on the side).

Homeopathy. I acknowledge the existance of the placebo effect but comon, it's just expensive water you're drinking

Veganism. I cannot see how for a normal person this can be healthy in any way

In what way is making the choice to not eat animal products 'proof of stupidity'?

It's voluntarily reducing your diet to such an extent it eventually requires some sort of treatment to get the nutrients you ought to be getting. It's like a selective anorexia, and without treatment, (i.e. pills/injections to get the nutrients required) it causes dementia and a whole host of other ailments. Don't get me wrong, I think vegetarianism is morally superior to a normal meaty diet, but veganism is a health risk.

But that's not stuff that kids grasp, so it might be a bit inappropriate (unlike homeopathy).

[K. A. Pital]

I would say conspiracy theories, religious literalism including creationism, racism and voodoo medicine beliefs (beliving in "traditional healers", all that crap) indicate large-scale logical failures, and could be assessed statistically as a measure of the level of stupidity of a population.

[TheKwas]

Outside of biblical literalism, I'm going to say racism and anti-gay bigotry (maybe not in the sense that it's 'icky', but in the sense that gays are actually 2nd class citizens) are two beliefsa I could see the obvious flaw in before I hit the ripe age of 9.

[Blue_Wolf]

Long time lurker, first time poster here. I just want to say "thanks" to Mike and the regular posters here on SDN. I grew up as an ultra-religious, YEC tard, and while I inherently knew how ridiculous some of the Bible was, the church leaders and parental pressure do a marvelous job of keeping your critical thought in check. And when you're younger, you're easier to brainwash. But along with science courses, good high school friends, and lots of reading, in addition to this site, I was able to break out of my utter stupidity and become a more rational person.

OK, on to the opinions that I think prove stupidity. I would say that belief in the concept of the Holy Trinity makes absolutely no sense at all, yet millions of Christians continue to assert it. My pastor always said, "The father, son and holy spirit are one and the same." As a kid, I always wondered how the hell that would work - if Jesus was supposedly sent to die for the sins of humanity, wouldn't that end the existence of God, as well? And what about Jesus' teachings? He always referenced his "heavenly father," yet if the Trinity elements were one and the same, why wouldn't he just speak directly? I don't know if that really qualifies, and I'm not being as precise as I would like to be with the written word, but I hope I have kind of tried to put forth an argument.

The other thing I always thought was bullshit, even as a kid, were the ridiculous arguments made by smokers demanding their "rights." When I was 9 years old, I accidentally inhaled some asshole's second-hand smoke in a family restaurant, and I experienced a long, painful coughing spell. It didn't take me much to figure out that a person's right to health should take precedence over a smoker's right to light up in public enclosed spaces. I even remember asking my Mom why it would be such a burden for them to smoke in private. But I think other posters have probably covered the smoking thing better than I, so I would say the Holy Trinity justifications are an expression of pure idiocy.

[ray245]

In politics, many opinions are often held up as proof that the other person is an idiot. Of course, the problem is that people tend to do this on a tribal basis, ie- conservatives consider any liberal opinions to be proof of stupidity and liberals do the opposite. And then you have the Mindless Middle, which takes the opposite tack and declares that BOTH sides' opinions indicate stupidity because the reasonable conclusion is always in the middle. And finally, you have the super open-minded brigade, which declares that NOTHING is proof of stupidity and every opinion has some validity to it.

The super open-minded brigade is clearly out to lunch: nobody would take someone seriously if he (for example) still believes in Santa Claus as an adult. So there are clearly opinions which can totally demolish someone's credibility in the eyes of virtually everyone. The question is: disregarding fanciful and extremely rare opinions, which opinions should legitimately belong in this category?

One good example for me is Noah's Ark. I started picking apart the flaws in this one when I was a child, and I personally think that if a child can see the logical flaws in the story, then there's really no excuse for an adult not to. The instant someone says he believes in the Noah's Ark story as an adult, I conclude that he's an idiot. A general belief in God may indicate a certain level of irrationality, but that's on a completely different level than accepting the Noah's Ark story as literal history. Mind you, since YECs generally believe Noah's Ark to be literal history, this serves as an indirect indictment of all YECs as well.

Can anyone come up with any other examples of something which you can justify as a litmus test for idiocy? And don't just start throwing out bad political ideas. A lot of smart people have bought into bad ideas for various reasons. I single out Noah's Ark because it has glaring logical flaws which can make an 8 year old kid raise his eyebrows, not just a university-trained expert.

If anything, Fear encourage people to support their stupid beliefs again and again. For example, people don't want to doubt the bible out of the fear, that once you doubt it you can no longer feel secure about the concept of an afterlife.

Then there is holocaust denials who might not be racist, but simply react to the fact that it seems unbelievable.

[Junghalli]

Homeopathy is a great example. It's just so ridiculous on its face. "Here's some medicine water that's been so diluted that statistically there isn't a single molecule of actual medicine in it. That'll be $400 please." It's just such laughably obvious bullshit.

[ray245]

Homeopathy is a great example. It's just so ridiculous on its face. "Here's some medicine water that's been so diluted that statistically there isn't a single molecule of actual medicine in it. That'll be $400 please." It's just such laughably obvious bullshit.

Well, the placebo effect can help a person at times.

[Stark]

It's not about whether someone feels that it works - it's that the very concept is so obviously stupid.

[Plekhanov]

In what way is making the choice to not eat animal products 'proof of stupidity'?

It's voluntarily reducing your diet to such an extent it eventually requires some sort of treatment to get the nutrients you ought to be getting. It's like a selective anorexia, and without treatment, (i.e. pills/injections to get the nutrients required) it causes dementia and a whole host of other ailments. Don't get me wrong, I think vegetarianism is morally superior to a normal meaty diet, but veganism is a health risk.

But that's not stuff that kids grasp, so it might be a bit inappropriate (unlike homeopathy).

I assume you're talking about Vitamin B12 here which isn't a problem for vegans who eat fortified products which so far as I'm aware is most of them. If you aren't talking about B12 what are you talking about and can you please give sources.

[Plekhanov]

Well, the placebo effect can help a person at times.

When homoeopathy was explained to me my first thought was 'of all the multitude of substances any one water molecule must have been near two since it formed how the hell is it supposed to know which substances properties it's supposed to remember and invert?' That is just one of numerous immediately apparent glaring flaws in homoeopathy that should be apparent to anyone with a modicum of intelligence.

For homoeopathy to have a placebo effect upon you you'd have to be stupid enough for none of those glaring flaws to have occurred to you.

[sketerpot]

Long time lurker, first time poster here. I just want to say "thanks" to Mike and the regular posters here on SDN. I grew up as an ultra-religious, YEC tard, and while I inherently knew how ridiculous some of the Bible was, the church leaders and parental pressure do a marvelous job of keeping your critical thought in check. And when you're younger, you're easier to brainwash. But along with science courses, good high school friends, and lots of reading, in addition to this site, I was able to break out of my utter stupidity and become a more rational person.

I was never as religious as you were, but I too give a lot of the credit for my current atheism and skepticism to a handful of web sites, including this one. The Internet is truly a wonderful, liberating thing. Congratulations, by the way, on getting over your childhood brainwashing. Most people never manage that.

OK, on to the opinions that I think prove stupidity. I would say that belief in the concept of the Holy Trinity makes absolutely no sense at all, yet millions of Christians continue to assert it. My pastor always said, "The father, son and holy spirit are one and the same." As a kid, I always wondered how the hell that would work - if Jesus was supposedly sent to die for the sins of humanity, wouldn't that end the existence of God, as well? And what about Jesus' teachings? He always referenced his "heavenly father," yet if the Trinity elements were one and the same, why wouldn't he just speak directly? I don't know if that really qualifies, and I'm not being as precise as I would like to be with the written word, but I hope I have kind of tried to put forth an argument.

See, I never had any problem with that when I was a Christian. I figured that of course they were speaking metaphorically, and Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit were three avatars of the same entity, thus neatly resolving the crisis. I imagined Jesus as being like a waldo of God, and the Holy Spirit was the form God took when He talked at you.

Now if you want a real insane religious doctrine, here's one for you: all sins are equal. Saying "shit" is every bit as bad as being a serial killer. Most of the Christians I've met will actually claim that this is true, "in God's eyes". And since God is the ultimate arbiter of Truth, then it must be so! You're as bad as Hitler and Charles Manson for momentarily doubting that God had a reason for making someone get tied up and raped in a basement. It's all part of God's plan.

I'm always surprised by how many Christians will defend this doctrine. And some of them are otherwise fairly intelligent, so I guess it doesn't work as a predictor of stupidity. It damn well should, though.

The other thing I always thought was bullshit, even as a kid, were the ridiculous arguments made by smokers demanding their "rights." When I was 9 years old, I accidentally inhaled some asshole's second-hand smoke in a family restaurant, and I experienced a long, painful coughing spell. It didn't take me much to figure out that a person's right to health should take precedence over a smoker's right to light up in public enclosed spaces. I even remember asking my Mom why it would be such a burden for them to smoke in private. But I think other posters have probably covered the smoking thing better than I, so I would say the Holy Trinity justifications are an expression of pure idiocy.

DAMN RIGHT. Every time I hear a smoker indignantly going on about his right to foul up the air for everyone around him, I immediately realize that I'm talking to a delusional idiot. This is incredibly selfish, and yet a huge number of people just don't get it. What the hell, asshole smoker?

[Lusankya]

Here's an Australia specific one:

If Labor gets voted in, then interest rates will rise because Labor's been voted in.

John Howard based two whole election campaigns on that.

This was especially easy to spot as being stupid in the second election where he tried to turn it into an issue, because interest rates were already rising quite rapidly. I actually met someone who believed that. I didn't tell her how stupid she was, though because it was my friend's aunt, and my friend was getting married, and she was being kind enough to let myself and the other bridesmaids stay at her place for the wedding.

[Stark]

Lus, remember when Howard got shitty at the Reserve Bank for saying 'yeah interest rates gon go up guys' when he was being all OMG MY +5 ECON BONUS = WE WIN? That was hilarious.

[ray245]

Well, the placebo effect can help a person at times.

When homoeopathy was explained to me my first thought was 'of all the multitude of substances any one water molecule must have been near two since it formed how the hell is it supposed to know which substances properties it's supposed to remember and invert?' That is just one of numerous immediately apparent glaring flaws in homoeopathy that should be apparent to anyone with a modicum of intelligence.

For homoeopathy to have a placebo effect upon you you'd have to be stupid enough for none of those glaring flaws to have occurred to you.

True, but if it works for those people who don't bother to think, who are we to say they should not pay so much money.

[Stark]

The thread is about opinions that prove stupidity, moron. That's why it's relevant.

[Lusankya]

Lus, remember when Howard got shitty at the Reserve Bank for saying 'yeah interest rates gon go up guys' when he was being all OMG MY +5 ECON BONUS = WE WIN? That was hilarious.

You mean that time right in the middle election? Which was probably at the same time that Peter Costello was there saying "oh yeah +5 ECON BONUS so vote for us kthxbai"?

And then they had to backtrack and say "yeah, well they're going up anyway, but in this hypothetical alternate universe in which Labor wins, they go up more!"

Yeah. I remember.

[wautd]

In the users of homoeopathy their defence, I could understand it when they use it as a last ditch effort though. When you're chronically ill or even dying from an incurable disease, you'll clutch your hands at any straw you can get.

That's not to say this New Age stuff is harmless when unchecked. I remember that one or two years ago someone died of cancer because he went to a quack who used "cosmic ray treatment" (or some bullshit like that). The tragic part that the patient would have had a good chance with chemo.

[mr friendly guy]

Here's an Australia specific one:

If Labor gets voted in, then interest rates will rise because Labor's been voted in.

John Howard based two whole election campaigns on that.

Ah, I find those people post on ABC and youtube.

This was especially easy to spot as being stupid in the second election where he tried to turn it into an issue, because interest rates were already rising quite rapidly. I actually met someone who believed that. I didn't tell her how stupid she was, though because it was my friend's aunt, and my friend was getting married, and she was being kind enough to let myself and the other bridesmaids stay at her place for the wedding.

What would she say now that interest rates are at record lows? Will she believe it be even lower under Howard?

My tip for stupidity is not so much a generic view, but an interpretation of statements. For example, failing to realise analogies or metaphors are, well just that.

A recent example has been when our PM described Gordon Gecko behaviour by bank executives as a cause of the global financial problem. Some idiot seemed to think Kevin Rudd believed real life behaved like a movie character and that Rudd was hopefully not getting guidance from the movie "Wall street".

[ray245]

The thread is about opinions that prove stupidity, moron. That's why it's relevant.

True, I shouldn't be off-topic too often. Although one of the most funny case about a person's stupidity is a person thinking that the government did something to our 'air supply' and water supply because her water sprinklers formed a rainbow.

[mr friendly guy]

The other really stupid view that I have run into, is "Lets just print money". Ok, some big economic power like the US might be able to get away with it for the short term (as long as they contract the money supply later) but a country like ours (Australia). What are these people thinking. Granted some of them were supporters of the racist and retarded One Nation party (who actually suggested that) so that explains a bit.

Even as a kid I didn't need to know about Germany's hyperinflation or the Chinese Nationalist strategy of doing it to know it caused inflationary problems. I just realised if it was so simple, why wasn't everyone doing it? Perhaps there is something more to it.

And yes, even today, someone, somewhere will suggest it. Yes, I do read the finance section and I couldn't help noticing this topic.