The Employee Free Choice Act

[Duckie]

Last week, the latest version of the Employee Free Choice Act (EFCA) was formally introduced to both chambers of Congress

Is that Card Check? Or whatever it's called now? I love how Secret Ballots are vital for electing our leaders and for deciding unionization in Mexico, but is apparently evil for determining if your workshop unionizes.

This is of course a fair comparision, if we presumed that during the secret election, the US government started looking at ballots and exiling anybody who voted against the incumbent.

I'm rather surprised it's possible to one- or rather, two-liner without actually reading the OP because it was TLDR (Too Long/Liberal, Didn't Read) and get away with it.

[MKSheppard]

If the Board finds that a majority of the employees in a unit appropriate for bargaining has signed valid authorizations designating the individual or labor organization specified in the petition as their bargaining representative and that no other individual or labor organization is currently certified or recognized as the exclusive representative of any of the employees in the unit, the Board shall not direct an election but shall certify the individual or labor organization as the representative described in subsection (a).

So in other words; all the Union needs to do to Unionize a place is to send their people out to put pressure onto the workers to sign their names to the petition -- they then can automatically form a union, without you know, that small matter of an independent election overseen by the NRLB, which would you know, result in different results than that obtained by Union goon pressure.

I do love how there are FOUR FUCKING UNIONS ALONE in the US Postal Service. Thankfully, I can tell each of them to fuck themselves, and remain non-union. I'm a motherfucking government servant; my job is automatically guranteed against anything but nuclear fucking war; since the mail will always have to be delivered.

[Aaron]

Actually, its not you I'm so annoyed at, its Mike, with his anti-union, anti-government worker stance.

Fair enough.

My father works for the feds, his pension is 2% per year worked, of the average of the last 3 years worked. Really piss-poor. And no bonuses, despite the fact that he's saved the government and the taxpayer his income value dozens of times a year.

For us if your an NCO, you wind up with 40% of your best four years, if you do 25 years. It's lower if you get out before then, so 40% of four years a Cpl isn't that great. 40% of four years as an MWO is a lot better. Mind you I understand that they've changed it now, so I'm not sure what is going on.

[MKSheppard]

This is of course a fair comparision, if we presumed that during the secret election, the US government started looking at ballots and exiling anybody who voted against the incumbent.

It's too bad you fucking stupid bitch, that the Company doesn't oversee the election, but the NRLB. You do not pass go; and you do not collect $200.

That said, If I was a business owner, and my employees unionized, I'd liquidate the whole thing, and move on to a different business field with the proceedings from the liquidation rather than deal with Union bullshit.

Sure, it sucks about my employees; but I'd have told them during the Union Campaign; "If this unionization happens, I'm closing my business".

[Duckie]

This is of course a fair comparision, if we presumed that during the secret election, the US government started looking at ballots and exiling anybody who voted against the incumbent.

It's too bad you fucking stupid bitch, that the Company doesn't oversee the election, but the NRLB. You do not pass go; and you do not collect $200.

That said, If I was a business owner, and my employees unionized, I'd liquidate the whole thing, and move on to a different business field with the proceedings from the liquidation rather than deal with Union bullshit.

Sure, it sucks about my employees; but I'd have told them during the Union Campaign; "If this unionization happens, I'm closing my business".

Oh? And if the OP is so massively wrong and the EFCA is unnecessary and there's no problem with Secret Ballots, why don't you refute the OP instead of making one liners and vintage 1900s-era internet tough guy "Fuck that union shit, if employees tried to assert rights in my business I'd just make them unemployed and starve them to death!" [Maybe you could hire some scabs, too, Shep, or call in the US Military to bust up strikes?- A good note is that people like you in charge of businesses are exactly the reason why unionisation, this act, and the entirety of the labour movement exist]

I'll admit I know nothing of the EFCA beyond what I've heard in the media, but I support it already because all I've seen from the right in media and in the small scale is bullshitting about secret elections and the poor poor businesses/economy that will result from this, stating "It's fine like it is" (which is almost never true when a conservative says it), and then a few people frothing at the mouth at the word Union (some of it justified, some of it not).

[MKSheppard]

Oh? And if the OP is so massively wrong and the EFCA is unnecessary and there's no problem with Secret Ballots, why don't you refute the OP instead of making one liners

No, you're the stupid fuck who thinks that the company can manipulate NRLB overseen secret elections, but absolutely no pressure tactics occur when the Union goes around and pressures people to sign their name to that unionization paper.

and vintage 1900s-era internet tough guy "Fuck that union shit, if employees tried to assert rights in my business I'd just make them unemployed and starve them to death!"

That's actually happened you know. Usually in smallish companies owned by the founder -- who decides that fuck it, he's had a good run with the company, and doesn't want the extra hassle of dealing with the unions, so he liquidates the company, takes his money and vacations in the Bahamas, leaving the idiot workers shit out of luck.

Maybe you could hire some scabs, too, Shep, or call in the US Military to bust up strikes?

Scabs are the greatest thing ever. And why do I need the US Military when I have the State Police?

[Glocksman]

Scabs are the greatest thing ever. And why do I need the US Military when I have the State Police?

The MSP can protect you from a 7.62x54R rifle bullet fired from 300 meters away?
I have other weapons of course, but the Nagant seems to be the traditional firearm used in worker and peasant uprisings.

[MKSheppard]

I have other weapons of course, but the Nagant seems to be the traditional firearm used in worker and peasant uprisings.

And you don't know the history of State Police in the US don't you?

[Glocksman]

I know enough about it to 'shoot and scoot', instead of trying to fight a stand up battle.
As Dirty Harry once said 'a man's got to know his limitations', and I have read up on my labor history.

FWIW, a business owner isn't POTUS and the state police aren't the USSS and can't secure every place within rifle range of a potential 'target', and they damn sure aren't going to jump between you and the 152gr bullet headed for your sternum.

[Darth Wong]

So at most 60% of what you make now is equal to what you make now.

It's pretty goddamned good for someone who isn't working at all.

You do realize that there is no actual pension fund for federal government employees? And that this government that we have is looking at giving everyone pay cuts, and is targetting women as well?

You do realize that most private-sector workers and small business owners have no pension at all, with or without a separate fund for it, and must fund their own retirements with their own private savings?

Fucking spoiled ignorant brat. This is exactly why I have such contempt for the big public unions. They're so goddamned insulated from reality that they honestly think they're suffering when their compensation is still far superior to most of the people who pay their salaries.

[Ziggy Stardust]

So in other words; all the Union needs to do to Unionize a place is to send their people out to put pressure onto the workers to sign their names to the petition -- they then can automatically form a union, without you know, that small matter of an independent election overseen by the NRLB, which would you know, result in different results than that obtained by Union goon pressure.

Did you even read my post in its entirety? Yes, Union pressure is a problem, which I acknowledged. However, there is nothing to stop the employer from also applying pressure. And, as I mentioned, the employer has more power to apply this pressure, in a far more effective manner. The NRLB oversees the EFCA just as much as it does under the current system, so that complaint means nothing.

No, you're the stupid fuck who thinks that the company can manipulate NRLB overseen secret elections, but absolutely no pressure tactics occur when the Union goes around and pressures people to sign their name to that unionization paper.

And you're the stupid fuck who didn't read the god-damned original post, which addresses what you are bitching about. Union pressure is a problem, yes. So is employer pressure. But guess what? They were both problems under the pre-EFCA system, too. So shut the fuck up, or address the original post instead of ranting about shit I already addressed.

That's actually happened you know. Usually in smallish companies owned by the founder -- who decides that fuck it, he's had a good run with the company, and doesn't want the extra hassle of dealing with the unions, so he liquidates the company, takes his money and vacations in the Bahamas, leaving the idiot workers shit out of luck.

Which is the entire point of the EFCA. Thanks for reading.

[D.Turtle]

My impression with regards to Unions in the US (and several other countries) is two-fold:

A lack of good government-run social services: Health care, pensions, unemployment benefits among others. I would also put worker protection (protection from being fired at will) under this.

This then results in a huge gap between union-jobs and non-union jobs. Not only in benefits/compensation/wages for the workers, but also in costs to the employer.

Wouldn't the best solution therefore be the following:
First of all, eliminate the huge difference in social services by making them standard. Universal health care, proper pensions and unemployment benefits and so on.
Secondly, extend the benefits of wage increases and the like negotiated between unions and employees to all workers - regardless of them being in the union or not. The more members the union has, the larger their ability to put pressure on the employer - providing the benefit for people to unionize, while at the same time eliminating the huge wage and benefits gap between union and non-union jobs.

Of course, the rules/law of implementing something like that are a bit more complex. But thats (very) broadly the way it works here in Germany.