Lou Dobbs is a birther?! [vid]

[Broomstick]

I'd think the presidency would go to Biden - after all, he was legal to be elected VP, and the VP takes over if the President can not serve, right? So if the P has to be removed due to ineligibility then, to my mind, the VP would be the next in line.

But, of course, we ARE talking politics here.... sense may have nothing to do with it.

[Prannon]

Just for the record:

No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty five years, and been fourteen Years a resident within the United States.

This can be found in Article II, Section 1 of the US Constitution, and this is all that it says about Presidential eligability requirements. Note the words "natural born citizen." There is nothing about being born in the Continental US in that clause. Only that one is a citizen from birth by virtue of being born on US territory or being born to US citizen parents. I was born in Perth, Australia, but my birth certificate says "US Citizen Born Abroad." By my interpretation of the Constitution, I'm just as eligable to run for office as George Bush.

IIRC the only reason that people would make hay out of this is that none of our previous presidents have ever been born abroad. They were all born in the US proper. The whole "You have to be born in the US!!!" shtick is an urban legend at best.

[Broomstick]

IIRC the only reason that people would make hay out of this is that none of our previous presidents have ever been born abroad.

No, I think it's because none of our previous presidents have been black - it's really giving a lot of bigots the heebie-jeebies and they'd anything to change that because (and I do think this is the deep dark fear) they are convinced the black man will do to them what they and their ancestors did to the blacks for the past 3-4 centuries.

[FSTargetDrone]

No, I think it's because none of our previous presidents have been black - it's really giving a lot of bigots the heebie-jeebies and they'd anything to change that because (and I do think this is the deep dark fear) they are convinced the black man will do to them what they and their ancestors did to the blacks for the past 3-4 centuries.

That, and perhaps even more so because he has a "foreign-sounding" named and a is Muslim (despite the fact that he is Christian).

One positive, despite all the nonsense: The majority of the voters picked him. And of that, there is no doubt. For all the problems we have in this country, that is saying a lot.

[CaptainChewbacca]

This can be found in Article II, Section 1 of the US Constitution, and this is all that it says about Presidential eligability requirements. Note the words "natural born citizen." There is nothing about being born in the Continental US in that clause. Only that one is a citizen from birth by virtue of being born on US territory or being born to US citizen parents. I was born in Perth, Australia, but my birth certificate says "US Citizen Born Abroad." By my interpretation of the Constitution, I'm just as eligable to run for office as George Bush.

I said it again on the last page, and I'll say it again. BEING BORN IN THE US IS ONLY ONE OF TWO WAYS TO BE A NATURAL-BORN CITIZEN. You need to be born in the US, (Jus Soli, of the soil) or to US Citizens ([Jus Sanguinus[/i], of the blood). The PROBLEM is that Obama doesn't meet the requirements for inherited citizenship from his parents, so that's why the nuts are harping on the location of his birth. You qualify to be president because your parents were adult citizens at the time of your birth. Obama's parents were not.

The specifics of 'Natural Born' were clarified under US law, and revised several times.

IIRC the only reason that people would make hay out of this is that none of our previous presidents have ever been born abroad. They were all born in the US proper. The whole "You have to be born in the US!!!" shtick is an urban legend at best.

It is also contrary to history. Chester A. Arthur was born to an American woman and an Irish man, and there was never any clear record to prove where he was born, and was in fact rumored to have been born in Canada. So, one former US President had even less proof of citizenship than Obama.

[bobalot]

No wonder your country is in the shitter at the moment. That fact that this bullshit has air time on prime time networks is mind boggling. It would be laughed at by every section of society in Australia. It's hard not to believe the common perception that America has a gigantic proportion of fucking retards.

[Civil War Man]

No wonder your country is in the shitter at the moment. That fact that this bullshit has air time on prime time networks is mind boggling. It would be laughed at by every section of society in Australia. It's hard not to believe the common perception that America has a gigantic proportion of fucking retards.

A story like this may not make the prime time in Australia, but I doubt it would be laughed at by every section of Australian society. Isn't there a sizable subsection of the country that celebrates a holiday that basically amounts to "fuck the minorities"? I remember there being several threads here and in Testing regarding that holiday.

It's embarrassing that major "news" networks would continue this bullshit, but the mindset that feeds it is hardly unique to the US.

[weemadando]

Actually we have now and have had in the past a shitload of parliamentarians who are immigrants.

The whole racism thing is Australia can be negated simply by having a lamb BBQ and a beer on STRAYA day.

[Vympel]

To the media's credit, even though the 'birthers' are getting some airtime, no one is taking them seriously. They're getting hammered, just look at Chris Matthews skewer this guy:-

Link

I've very rarely see someone explicitly call out "YOU ARE ENCOURAGING THESE WHACK JOBS. SHUT THE FUCK UP."

Young Turks Link

Notice her bizarre ranting near the end: "I want my country back!"

We all know what she's talking about. Like Cenk says - she wants her white country back.

[Alyeska]

I was talking to Nitram about this last night. While alarming, these Birthers might be a blessing in disguise. The paranoids and ultra conservatives are tearing the GOP apart. They are disenfranchising the Moderates and reducing the power of the party. The power struggle underway increases the odds of another Democrat victory.

[LadyTevar]

The doccument Obama has presented isn't a birth certificate, it is a 'Certificate of Live Birth', and is (apparently) different somehow. I know that oftentimes Americans born abroad who can't get a birth certificate will USE a CLB for official doccumentation, and it generally carries the same legal weight.

The 'Certificate of Live Birth' even SAYS on it (and it is cearly visible in the pictures produced on FactCheck): "This copy serves as prima facie evidence of the fact of birth in any court proceeding." And it has the Hawaii Department of Health's official seal and signature on it, as well.

FactCheck says:

The certificate has all the elements the State Department requires for proving citizenship to obtain a U.S. passport: "your full name, the full name of your parent(s), date and place of birth, sex, date the birth record was filed, and the seal or other certification of the official custodian of such records." The names, date and place of birth, and filing date are all evident on the scanned version, and you can see the seal above.

The document is a "certification of birth," also known as a short-form birth certificate. The long form is drawn up by the hospital and includes additional information such as birth weight and parents' hometowns. The short form is printed by the state and draws from a database with fewer details. The Hawaii Department of Health's birth record request form does not give the option to request a photocopy of your long-form birth certificate, but their short form has enough information to be acceptable to the State Department.

So, yeah, it is technically not the actual birth certificate, but there is no reason why it shouldn't be valid.

As a registrar with the State of WV, I can inform you both that a "Certificate of Live Birth" is the legal title of the documents commonly referred to as "Birth Certificates".

It is a "Certificate of Live Birth" to differentiate it from the "Certificate of StillBirth", aka a "Fetal Death Certificate". (The difference? If the baby takes a breath, it's a Live Birth. If they don't take a breath, it's StillBirth. If they take a breath, then die, doctors have to fill out a Live Birth as well as a Certificate of Death because the baby lived even for a second.)

So those throwing fits about a "Certificate of Live Birth" vs a "Birth Certificate" are idjits who don't know it's the Same Damn Thing.

[FSTargetDrone]

Even if you had a gold-plated, 5-star, Blue-Ribbon Certificate of Authenticity attached to his birth documents, for these people it still wouldn't be enough. They would say the government or the Administration or the UN faked the documents. There is no convincing people who see a conspiracy here that the man is legitimately in power.

[CaptainChewbacca]

It is a "Certificate of Live Birth" to differentiate it from the "Certificate of StillBirth", aka a "Fetal Death Certificate". (The difference? If the baby takes a breath, it's a Live Birth. If they don't take a breath, it's StillBirth. If they take a breath, then die, doctors have to fill out a Live Birth as well as a Certificate of Death because the baby lived even for a second.)

So those throwing fits about a "Certificate of Live Birth" vs a "Birth Certificate" are idjits who don't know it's the Same Damn Thing.

My bad, I thought a birth certificate was issued by the hospital, and a CLB was the state record.

[Elfdart]

The US Constitution requires that any president be born in the country, for some archaic reason. It's not enough to just be a citizen.

It'd make more sense if it required them to actually live in the country as a citizen for x years or something prior to being elected, I think.

But seriously, we already knew Lou Dobbs was a worthless blowhard, didn't we?

He's been a race-baiter ever since he realized he could get more viewers for his foundering show. This is the same racist douchecock who claimed Teh Meskins were spreading leprosy. That is, when they weren't plotting to take back California and Texas.

[Samuel]

Isn't leprosy so hard to get it is effectively non-contagious?

[General Zod]

Isn't leprosy so hard to get it is effectively non-contagious?

You don't honestly expect ignorant blowhards to know better do you?

[Kuja]

So Lou Dobbs is a moron. Big deal. (Was that many embedded flash videos honestly necessary?)

It's not a real DA thread without a six-page-two-movie-three-picture-double-post infodump.


More on-topic, I agree with the sentiment that publicizing the "real" birth certificate would just allow these nutbags to add more fuel to the fire. The best solution, as unpleasant as it is, is to ignore them to death.

[Elfdart]

It's embarrassing that major "news" networks would continue this bullshit, but the mindset that feeds it is hardly unique to the US.

Charles Pierce called out MSNBC and the other networks for booking Dick Vader's daughter on a regular basis.


Notice how the guest host on the "liberal" Countdown show tries to kick up dust and change the subject when it's pointed out that MSNBC is an outlet for Republitard agitprop just like CNN and Fox.

[Elfdart]

Looks like CNN has had enough of this horseshit:

LINK

The Lou Dobbs "Birthers" saga may be coming to a close. This morning, the President of the Southern Poverty Law Center, a major civil rights group, wrote a letter calling on CNN President Jon Klein to remove CNN host Lou Dobbs from the air. The request stems from a segment on Dobbs' radio show this past Tuesday where Dobbs did his part to keep alive the conspiracy theory that President Obama is not an American citizen (AKA the "birther" theory). On air, he speculated: "I'm starting to think we have a document issue. You suppose he's un... no, I won't even use the word undocumented, it wouldn't be right."

Dear Mr. Klein,


As an important and respected news organization, CNN has a special responsibility to ensure the accuracy of its reporting. We have written to you before about our concern that Lou Dobbs repeatedly fails to live up to this standard in his reporting on immigration. Now, Mr. Dobbs is again trading in falsehoods and racist conspiracy theories, questioning President Obama's American citizenship.

On the July 15 edition of "Lou Dobbs Tonight," Mr. Dobbs questioned the official certificate provided by the president and the State of Hawaii and complained that President Obama has not made public the "original document." On his radio program, Mr. Dobbs has repeatedly questioned the president's fitness for office, demanding he "show the documents" and, at one point, jokingly suggesting President Obama may be "undocumented."

The truth about the president's birth is not in dispute. It has been verified by Factcheck.org, among many other serious news organizations, and his official birth documents have been made public. CNN itself has repeatedly reported on the falsity of the claims of the "birthers," and the network's esteemed legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin, recently called those claims "a joke." As you know, even Mr. Dobbs' frequent fill-in anchor, Kitty Pilgrim, debunked the birthers on the July 17 edition of Mr. Dobbs' own CNN show. The fact that Mr. Dobbs suggests otherwise on CNN -- while real CNN reporters tell the truth -- is both deplorable and an embarrassment to all serious journalists.

As he has in several other instances, Mr. Dobbs, in taking up the birthers' claims, is adopting an unsubstantiated conspiracy theory that originated on the radical racist right. As Gawker.com has reported, this particular conspiracy theory was first developed by an open anti-Semite and circulated by right-wing extremists who cannot accept the fact that a black man has been elected president of the United States. Among its adherents was neo-Nazi James von Brunn, the alleged murderer of a security guard at the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington, D.C., this June. Von Brunn had helped spread the birthers' claims on the Internet and attacked the "dishonest & conspiratorial Media" for not taking them up.

This is not the first time Mr. Dobbs has pushed racist conspiracy theories or defamatory falsehoods about immigrants. We wrote you in 2007 to bring to your attention his utterly false claim that 7,000 new cases of leprosy had appeared in the United States in a recent three-year period, due at least in part to immigrants. (The real number, according to official statistics, was about 400. Mr. Dobbs took his spurious information from the late right-wing extremist, Madeleine Cosman.) In addition, Mr. Dobbs has reported as fact the so-called Aztlan conspiracy, which claims that undocumented Mexican immigrants are part of a plot to "reconquer" the American Southwest. He has suggested there is something to a related conspiracy theory that claims the governments of Mexico, the United States and Canada are secretly planning to merge into the "North American Union." He has falsely claimed that "illegal aliens" fill one third of American prison and jail cells. And Mr. Dobbs has routinely disparaged, on CNN's air, those who have had the integrity to point out the falsity of these and similar claims.

Respectable news organizations should not employ reporters willing to peddle racist conspiracy theories and false propaganda. It's time for CNN to remove Mr. Dobbs from the airwaves.

Sincerely,
J. Richard Cohen
President

The SPLC isn't the first group to have demanded the removal of Dobbs. Yesterday, the progressive watchdog group Media Matters blasted out a press release to reporters charging that "CNN has a very serious Lou Dobbs problem." Now, it seems the message may have started to seep through. TVNewser reported today that Jon Klein sent a memo to group of Dobbs' staffers explaining in no uncertain terms that the whole "birthers" story is "dead."

In part, Klein writes, "It seems this story is dead- because anyone who still is not convinced doesn't really have a legitimate beef." Klein asked CNN researchers to dig into the question of why Obama couldn't produce the original birth certificate. The researchers contacted the Hawaii Health Dept. and confirmed that paper documents were discarded in 2001 when the department went paperless. That reportedly includes Pres. Obama's original birth certificate.

A day late and a dollar short.

[General Zod]

Now if these idiot birthers would just take the hint that their movement is dead.

[bobalot]

No wonder your country is in the shitter at the moment. That fact that this bullshit has air time on prime time networks is mind boggling. It would be laughed at by every section of society in Australia. It's hard not to believe the common perception that America has a gigantic proportion of fucking retards.

A story like this may not make the prime time in Australia, but I doubt it would be laughed at by every section of Australian society. Isn't there a sizable subsection of the country that celebrates a holiday that basically amounts to "fuck the minorities"? I remember there being several threads here and in Testing regarding that holiday.

It's embarrassing that major "news" networks would continue this bullshit, but the mindset that feeds it is hardly unique to the US.

Fuck the minorities? Which day exactly is that? Since I am a "minority" within Australia, I would love to know what this day is. I seemed to have missed it for my entire life.

[LMSx]

The US Constitution requires that any president be born in the country, for some archaic reason. It's not enough to just be a citizen.

If I remember correctly I read that the Founding Fathers were paranoid about a foreign puppet being installed based on an example from Poland. If that's true, that's another little shard of evidence that mindless FF worship is pretty retarded.

I wouldn't be surprised if Obama never publicly released his birth certificate. It's an awfully effective way to distract and split some of the ignorant base from the elected officials. Better chasing ghosts than rallying to stop health care.

[Mr Bean]

The US Constitution requires that any president be born in the country, for some archaic reason. It's not enough to just be a citizen.

If I remember correctly I read that the Founding Fathers were paranoid about a foreign puppet being installed based on an example from Poland. If that's true, that's another little shard of evidence that mindless FF worship is pretty retarded.

Incorrect, the FF where very much concerned that the King would get his name put on the ballot. Crown Loyalists existed in the brand new United States for several decades after we threw the English out, and they were very worried that enough of them where around in certain colonies to face the issue that the King of England might be able to buy/bribe/steal enough votes to win the Presidency if anyone could become President. Recall, quite a few of our first Presidents could not server as President having all been born in either England or in an English Colony. It was not until President number 8 that we had US born citizens serving as President. After all Washington was born in the English Colony of Virgina not in America. So that rule was fast and lose for three decades anyway.

I wouldn't be surprised if Obama never publicly released his birth certificate. It's an awfully effective way to distract and split some of the ignorant base from the elected officials. Better chasing ghosts than rallying to stop health care.

He already released his Birth Certificate(Certificate of Live Birth), he has not released his Long-Form Birth Certificate which is another page or so of information like attending physician, time, payment information and the like. The one which everyone else in the world uses when your asked by companies for proof of ID has been released.

[Samuel]

You have to admit that would have been awesome- King George the Third running and winning an election to presidency of the United States. Of course, that brings up the whole "What did we go through all this work for"?

[Elfdart]

Incorrect, the FF where very much concerned that the King would get his name put on the ballot. Crown Loyalists existed in the brand new United States for several decades after we threw the English out, and they were very worried that enough of them where around in certain colonies to face the issue that the King of England might be able to buy/bribe/steal enough votes to win the Presidency if anyone could become President.

That's part of it. Before the Constitution was written, one proposal for the new government was to bring some European prince over to be King of America. The Founders put an end to that idea once and for all, since they were vehemently opposed to monarchy of any kind -almost as much as they were opposed to democracy.