And now, as promised, a special comment.

[Dragon Angel]

Self-centered whiny cunt screeching about how the world discriminates against them based on the choices they made? Check.

Call back when you were born with a disability that closes off major avenues to you, like the military, police, fire dept, space program, airline pilot, etc etc.

OH WAIT. Can I just perform a deaf-ectomy with a rusty railroad spike on both of your ears?

Fucking whiny bitch cunt.

-sigh-

Depends on how you see it, I guess? La Maupin took a VERY over-the-top view on Olbermann's comment, but this does not help anything. Or, have you forgotten the perpetual hiding that comes with changing one's physical sex?

Optional? The dissonance between mind and body is enough to drive a person to suicide. Please, call that optional one more time.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Eh, Shep's been stewing in this ever since he called me an it after Poe got banned. I'd just hoped that my consistent effort at showing him courtesy and respect after that would cause him to provide some in return. Instead I just get more of the same. I might as well be his battered fucking housewife at this point--come on, Shep, yes, Katie is a stupid fucking cunt with her histrionics knob dialed to 500%, but that remark was not merely uncalled for, but categorically false. Of all the deserving ways to insult Katie you had to ignore them and choose the one which just shoves someone who, for all we've had our spats, has still considered you her friend for the past ten years, all the further away from you. Jesus christ, dude. why?

[MKSheppard]

Shep, WTF? Transsexuality does indeed close pretty much off all the things you just listed

No it doesn't. It only closes them off if you want to have your cake and eat it as well. I know this waste of genetic material, and there's nothing preventing them from having either of the careers I listed above, except their fanatical desire to become a transwoman.

[Steve]

Shep, WTF? Transsexuality does indeed close pretty much off all the things you just listed

No it doesn't. It only closes them off if you want to have your cake and eat it as well. I know this waste of genetic material, and there's nothing preventing them from having either of the careers I listed above, except their fanatical desire to become a transwoman.

Shep? Three words.

Sit and spin.

I mean it. Yes, we get it. You're deaf. There are jobs you'd love to do that you can't. Call me back when being deaf could get you maliciously murdered by someone who can then get their sentences ameliorated, if not winning outright acquittal, on a "deaf-panic" defense.

[Knife]

While Shep has gone over the top, perhaps it is karma that the OT is over the top to begin with. I took Olberman's jab as a direct joke about the possibility of Coulter being a hypocrite in her actions against people. Her stated stance on various issues, if implemented, would have her out of the workplace an in a house barefoot and pregnant. He could have very well made a joke about her tapping her feet under the bathroom door in an airport, or being a free market drone while thousands lose their homes and starve in the Great Depression V 2.0. As it is, he went with obvious jabs at her base looks, and she does look manly, but in the end I took it as a quick jab at her personal looks with a heap of hypocrisy in there as well.

As it is, though, the rage in the OT is misdirected. Of course those who are suffering under the oppression of cultural norms will see hurt when and if they can, and I can't blame them; but it is also dangerous to let such anger be directed at your friends and allies. I could make the exact same argument of the OT with her careless use of some sort of new fangled lingo to describe heterosexuals, take offense at it and write multiple paragraphs alienating those who would normally be on my side in an issue.

[Dragon Angel]

No it doesn't. It only closes them off if you want to have your cake and eat it as well. I know this waste of genetic material, and there's nothing preventing them from having either of the careers I listed above, except their fanatical desire to become a transwoman.

Oh, and pray tell, what happens when one of the majority of employers discovers that she was not born a woman? She is summarily fired from her job. And, also, likely to be PERMANENTLY disqualified from other jobs because of one word: Connections. Hence, the hiding, stealth, paranoia bit I heavily implied. Perhaps I should have made it more clear for you.

Not to mention, once her past identity is out in the open, she is much more vulnerable to death than EVER before. Either from murder, homelessness, STDs...pick one.

I will restate what I said before into something more simple: The drive to change your sex, if you were born transgendered, is as optional as taking out a cancerous tumor. That is, of course, it is NOT optional.

[MKSheppard]

While Shep has gone over the top

Over the top? This is an issue that pisses me off enormously, and enrages me to no small degree, when someone goes on and on about how horrible their life is because of choices they made, and act like their life is a endless pile of shit. Fucking worthless sacks of shit.

Gee, I wish I had the kinds of options open to these histronic-wailing whores.

Why, I could go into the military as a hearing person, and then after doing eight years, and building up a nice nest-egg, I could go have an operation and have my hearing obliterated. This is something these morons totally fail to understand. They want to have their fucking cake NOW NOW NOW NOW, instead of oh, the horrors, having to wait.

[Thanas]

Shep, WTF? Transsexuality does indeed close pretty much off all the things you just listed

No it doesn't. It only closes them off if you want to have your cake and eat it as well. I know this waste of genetic material, and there's nothing preventing them from having either of the careers I listed above, except their fanatical desire to become a transwoman.

Shep, please take a breather. Neither you nor I, not being transgendered ourselves, can know how they feel. You come off as a major jerk in this thread, especially as you have yet to show one transsexual serving in one of the areas of employment you listed.

Also, what fanatical desire? Most of it seems to be more accurately described as a force, an imperative. It is not like the people I talk about have a choice. Yeah, maybe there are some who just want to have it done for cosmetic reasons, but I am willing to bet good money that these are a very tiny to statistically insignificant minority, for anyone willing to undergo such surgical procedure voluntarily has to be nuts. I've seen the surgery required - it is not really great or pretty and definitely not something a sane person would just select out of a passing fancy.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Transwomen can serve in any nonmilitary field in the US thought of course none have been authorized for the space programme. In that sense we're no worse off than homosexuals, and Shep does indeed have fewer opportunities than we do. Katie's screeching histrionic rant deserved to be HOSed and probably get her titled, especially since it was such an attention whoring maneouvre. But that's really no longer the issue at hand. The issue at hand is Shep's absurd, obscene continued insistent in the face of repeated scientific studies in different locations by different teams like this one,, and this one which show that genetic differences and pre-hormone structural brain differents exist in transwomen, which are innate, inborn, and govern the full spectrum of one's mental, emotional, and social interaction and identity. And he will publically acknowledge these studies and acknowledge that transsexualism is not a choice, for all I'm dazed that after all the effort I've made he is still prepared to go on like this, I don't really have a choice there.

But let's please separate this from Katie's false victimhood attentionwhoring when I know personally she's suffered far, far fewer effects from being trans than I have... And I still have more options open to me, even if I have suffered more to date, than Shep ever will. No, Shep does have a legitimate complaint in that Katie has no right to be such a stupid sensitive pretty princess bitch who explodes at the merest joke, and I will defend him in that regard at the same time that I attack him over his obscene denial of the factual truth.

[Thanas]

^Alright, I trust your judgment about Shep, as you know far more than I do about the issue. Consider my objection withdrawn with regards to the occupations.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

^Alright, I trust your judgment about Shep, as you know far more than I do about the issue. Consider my objection withdrawn with regards to the occupations.

Thank you, Thanas. Shep's comments about transsexualism being a choice is the issue at hand here; I believe every single person who has posted in the thread has condemned Katie's ridiculous histrionics, but Shep chose to combine that with hateful comments which are wilfully in denial of objective fact.

[Thanas]

^Alright, I trust your judgment about Shep, as you know far more than I do about the issue. Consider my objection withdrawn with regards to the occupations.

Thank you, Thanas. Shep's comments about transsexualism being a choice is the issue here

Indeed they are. My part after the occupations still stands.

[Steve]

I think you are being too harsh on Katie for what was apparently a cathartic, knee-jerk reaction prompted by a painful feeling of betrayal. Did she go too far? Perhaps. There is still the point that even if Olberman was being relevant to Coulter's own insults, many people actually think of transwomen in such a way, and it is demeaning. That point is lost, unfortunately, due to the context, and the perception of this being an overreaction to a joke.

I would prefer the thread being locked to being HoSed, and titling over one single thread is going too far.

If anything, this simply reinforces me tendency to ignore any and all political and news shows.

[JCady]

I dont think that what he said was a slight against transsexuals. I think it was making a convenient attack against Ann Coulter, in a way that would hurt her, because she loudly defends positions that are typically held by male ultra conservative WASPS. To be frank, Ann Coulter is a homophobic misogynist religious conservative nutbag. She holds positions counter to her interests as a woman, and it is disgusting.

It is in the same vein as me calling an anti-gay street preacher a cocksucker.

And what he said, implied that he feels that being transsexual is itself enough of a dishonor and enough of a shame to have the mere implication of being transsexual be a grave insult to someone's credibility. That he was doing so in response to a transphobic statement made by Coulter about him further indicates that he believes that this is so. So yes, I think I am perfectly justified in calling him out on that.

Again, you are taking this as a jab against transsexuals instead of a jab against Coulter. Not really because Coulter looks like a man, but because she acts like a sexist white male.

I think you're missing the point entirely. The fact that accusing someone of being transsexual is considered a "jab" at all rests on the proposition that being transsexual is bad, wrong, and distasteful. That is what makes Olbermann's joke unacceptable even if he is on "our side" politically, even if he's poking fun at a legitimate target. It is entirely appropriate to deride Ann Coulter because she is an utterly worthless excuse for a human being, but that does not confer legitimacy on making jokes about her which are based entirely on reducing the entire concept of being a trans woman to a punchline.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

I think you're missing the point entirely. The fact that accusing someone of being transsexual is considered a "jab" at all rests on the proposition that being transsexual is bad, wrong, and distasteful. That is what makes Olbermann's joke unacceptable even if he is on "our side" politically, even if he's poking fun at a legitimate target. It is entirely appropriate to deride Ann Coulter because she is an utterly worthless excuse for a human being, but that does not confer legitimacy on making jokes about her which are based entirely on reducing the entire concept of being a trans woman to a punchline.

Here, if I give you a dollar, will you buy a sense of humour ?

Now, let's tell a joke. Two hohols walk into a room....


Seriously, if you'd ever had a job before (a real job, not one where everything is sanitized to the point that your supervisor is a hall monitor), or been in any other kind of social setting between mature humans, you would realize it's possible to laugh at yourself and at your conditions and to laugh with others at others like yourself.. And others who aren't like yourself. That there is a thing called "context" which helps makes humour offensive, or not. Furthermore why do you take "this man wants to be a woman" as an insult, unless you ARE a man who wants to be a woman? I know I'm a sex-inversed female -- why would I be offended by a joke about some psycho who isn't?

Why is this intentionally being interpreted in the most self-hurtful way possible? And most importantly, where DID your sense of humour go? Laugh at the world, it's absurd.

[Blayne]

I found your OP post to be very well down mimicry of his style and I applaud your efforts to keep a watchful eye on him should he has he did then slip in his use of offensive language to describe idiot right wing extremists.

Though I do think he's not actually a bigot and probably most likely did not intend to cause offense the way you I think are implying.

[MKSheppard]

Shep, please take a breather. Neither you nor I, not being transgendered ourselves, can know how they feel.

By that intepretation, nobody in this thread can understand how I feel, not being deaf themselves.

You come off as a major jerk in this thread, especially as you have yet to show one transsexual serving in one of the areas of employment you listed.

Why should I have to?

Why is it that they can't have a bit of patience like everyone else, instead of demanding everything up front?

I've seen the surgery required - it is not really great or pretty and definitely not something a sane person would just select out of a passing fancy.

My view is brutally simple.

They are born with a functional body that works, and they want to maim that functional body as a form of extreme body modification.

I really do not give a damn if they do it or not; if they want to fuck up their functional body in pursuit of a chimaerical dream, go ahead, see if I care.

What I do give a damn about is their endless whining over opression. You said it yourself; the surgery is not something a sane person would select out of a passing fancy.

They made their choice, they can lie in their goddamn bed when they find out that life isn't exactly all free cake and candy afterwards.

Even more so because their condition is a decidedly non-life threatening/non-life impacting one, so they're pretty far down on my list of people I give a damn about, due to simple triage.

FYI, if you want to know who tops my 'give a damn' triage list, it's blind people. Interestingly enough, Ray Charles' "give a damn list" had deaf people on the top of it, rather than blind people; since he couldn't imagine what it would be like not to hear music.

[Phantasee]

I found your OP post to be very well down mimicry of his style and I applaud your efforts to keep a watchful eye on him should he has he did then slip in his use of offensive language to describe idiot right wing extremists.

Though I do think he's not actually a bigot and probably most likely did not intend to cause offense the way you I think are implying.

What the fuck are you mumbling about?

Shep, you're being a douche bag, and I'm pretty sure you know it.

[eion]

I took it as fighting a little fire with fire.

Coltergeist (Keith has given her a wonderfully appropriate name) veered off in her column to paint a picture of Mr. Olbermann cross-dressing in his recently deceased mother's "housecoat, undergarments, and slippers", called Richard Wolfe "Creepy" and "Androgynous", and called everyone's favorite lesbian news anchor Dr. Rachel Maddow "Olbermann's most macho guest."

Coltergeist was the one using transgender/genderqueer/homosexuality as an insult, as she always does, and Olbermann just tossed it right back at her.

[Mr. Coffee]

To be fair, Coulter does look pretty damned mannish...

[MKSheppard]

What the fuck are you mumbling about?

He's trying to avoid being banned. So he's attempting to increase the IQ quotient of his posts. However, like everything else he does, he fails at it.

[eion]

Shep, please take a breather. Neither you nor I, not being transgendered ourselves, can know how they feel.

By that interpretation, nobody in this thread can understand how I feel, not being deaf themselves.

We can simulate it though, even if only temporarily. I don't think anyone's created a device that makes you feel like you're trapped in the wrong sort of body.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

My view is brutally simple.

They are born with a functional body that works, and they want to maim that functional body as a form of extreme body modification.

I really do not give a damn if they do it or not; if they want to fuck up their functional body in pursuit of a chimaerical dream, go ahead, see if I care.

What I do give a damn about is their endless whining over opression. You said it yourself; the surgery is not something a sane person would select out of a passing fancy.

They made their choice, they can lie in their goddamn bed when they find out that life isn't exactly all free cake and candy afterwards.

Even more so because their condition is a decidedly non-life threatening/non-life impacting one, so they're pretty far down on my list of people I give a damn about, due to simple triage.

FYI, if you want to know who tops my 'give a damn' triage list, it's blind people. Interestingly enough, Ray Charles' "give a damn list" had deaf people on the top of it, rather than blind people; since he couldn't imagine what it would be like not to hear music.

Just ignore the posted scientific evidence, eh? I can post more showing that untreated transsexualism is a life-threatening and life-impacting condition, but why should I be providing more evidence when you refuse to acknowledge the evidence I've already posted which is contradictory to your claims? Also since the brain is part of the body, the body is in fact not functional. Your argument fails at so many levels, and you won't even give someone who's tried to be your friend for a decade the time of day. You just continue to insult me while hiding from the evidence I have provided which destroys your argument, and for what? Because I've already forgiven you for this you take it as carte blanche to do it again?

[Blayne]

What the fuck are you mumbling about?

He's trying to avoid being banned. So he's attempting to increase the IQ quotient of his posts. However, like everything else he does, he fails at it.

Don't take this out on me, I said what I said very clearly, good post, but Olberman isn't a bigot, except y'know in paragraph form and substantiated.

[eion]

Don't take this out on me, I said what I said very clearly, good post, but Olberman isn't a bigot, except y'know in paragraph form and substantiated.

Was that supposed to be intentionally contradictory?