Wikileaker found and in custody

[Highlord Laan]

The authoritarians don't like their dirty laundry being aired. Big surprise. If it contains what is alleged, this man is a hero.

Whatever, IP.

Do you have a Need To Know? High level security clearance? On site for a diplomatic exchange or military exercise?

No? Then get off you goddamed high horse. The man is a criminal, nothing more or less.

Wow, both ends of the spectrum right there. On one side with IP we have, "Way to go! Fight the good fight, mang!" and on the other side with Laan we have, "It's classified for a reason, they'll tell us what we need to know and I trust them, anyone who does otherwise is a criminal!"

Yeah, I know the mindless-middle is rather hated around here, but I'm pretty certain in this case the answer *is* in the middle. Yes, there's plenty of good evidence to assume that we're not being told stuff we should be told, stuff that could be fucking peoples' lives over big time and is only being withheld for selfish/malicious/downright retarded reasons. On the other hand, this could have been handled a lot better rather than just rushing to dump as much classified info as possible into the mainstream, regardless of content or risk.

My stance is actually around the same as Night_Stalkers'. If this idiot actually found something illegal and quietly reported it to the correct agency for investigation while maintaining security, I'd be applauding his actions. Nobody is above the law, so if it's been violated, then those that did so must be prosecuted, no matter who they are, who they think they are, or who they serve.

However, dingus here just grabbed a bunch of classified information, and tossed it onto the internet. He wasn't being a wistleblower, he's being an attention-whoring piece of shit that needs to be (and WILL be) stomped into a mudhole by the the courts and left to rot in prison. As it should be for what he's done. Even worse, if any of the information he's let loose gets anyone killed, I'd be all for dragging him up on murder charges. If it gets any Americans killed, haul his ass up on full-on Treason charges.

The "Whoo! Stick it to the ebil gub'mint" stance is worthy of nothing but open derision and insult. Not agreeing with something be classified, and going through the proper channels and system to get said information un-classified is great. I'm glad such avenues of action exist. But attempting to buck the system for one's own amusement (or any other reason, from either side of the argument) deserves criminal charges of whatever severity is deemed necessary by the proper authorities.

The Law is more important than personal feelings, causes or vendetta's.

[Edward Yee]

Yeah, he's not going to have a long time in prison before he "accidentally" throws himself down a flight of stairs, or "accidentally" stabs his kidneys with a homemade shiv.

Ironically, unless it involved Hellfire missiles, a Predator, and SPC Manning being jailed in Central Asia, I'd be more inclined to believe the cover stories at face value.

[Highlord Laan]

Yeah, he's not going to have a long time in prison before he "accidentally" throws himself down a flight of stairs, or "accidentally" stabs his kidneys with a homemade shiv.

Ironically, unless it involved Hellfire missiles, a Predator, and SPC Manning being jailed in Central Asia, I'd be more inclined to believe the cover stories at face value.

Committing suicide by shooting himself in the chest six times and throwing himself off a bridge?

[Losonti Tokash]

The Law is more important than personal feelings, causes or vendetta's.

Not only is this statement idiotic on the face of it, but there is that whole thing that Manning at least claims to have released the info because people were not being held accountable to THE LAW.

[Edward Yee]

Yeah, he's not going to have a long time in prison before he "accidentally" throws himself down a flight of stairs, or "accidentally" stabs his kidneys with a homemade shiv.

Ironically, unless it involved Hellfire missiles, a Predator, and SPC Manning being jailed in Central Asia, I'd be more inclined to believe the cover stories at face value.

Committing suicide by shooting himself in the chest six times and throwing himself off a bridge?

Oh, no, see, that I would believe to have been someone else killing him... I just wouldn't believe "CIA" or "USG" unless it was the aforementioned factors though.

[Ryan Thunder]

Yeah, he's not going to have a long time in prison before he "accidentally" throws himself down a flight of stairs, or "accidentally" stabs his kidneys with a homemade shiv.

Ironically, unless it involved Hellfire missiles, a Predator, and SPC Manning being jailed in Central Asia, I'd be more inclined to believe the cover stories at face value.

Committing suicide by shooting himself in the chest six times and throwing himself off a bridge?

Nah, that'd be too easy. He couldn't take it anymore, so he shot himself twice in the back.

[Night_stalker]

Then tied his arms behind his back, attached a bunch of weights to his ankels, and threw himself into the ocean. Apparently, he couldn't live with the guilt.

[Highlord Laan]

The Law is more important than personal feelings, causes or vendetta's.

Not only is this statement idiotic on the face of it, but there is that whole thing that Manning at least claims to have released the info because people were not being held accountable to THE LAW.

Than he dammed well could have taken what data he had supporting his belief the the proper authorities. Instead he just acted like some brainless 4channer and tossed it onto the internet to cause as much disruption and havoc as possible.

[Illuminatus Primus]

The authoritarians don't like their dirty laundry being aired. Big surprise. If it contains what is alleged, this man is a hero.

Whatever, IP.

Do you have a Need To Know? High level security clearance? On site for a diplomatic exchange or military exercise?

No? Then get off you goddamed high horse. The man is a criminal, nothing more or less.

What about the guy who'd leaked the Pentagon Papers? What about the endless list of state lies and crimes that have ever been committed, but that brave men could and sometimes did help leak in order to inform the public as to restrain the crimes and power of the state. But I'm sorry, all that matters is being An Expert and the Right to Lie in Service of the State. The public has the right to know if the organs of state are functioning in a duplicitous or fraudulent manner.

You're essentially establishing a principle by which as long as authority SAYS something is wrong, than it is. I'm glad there have been countless brave men and women who were more than those who cowered under the shield of "following orders".

[Illuminatus Primus]

The Law is more important than personal feelings, causes or vendetta's.

This is the same kind of reasoning as the Nuremberg Defense. I suppose you think those who "violated the law" to liberate slaves were people who deserved to be cowed and disciplined by force, eh?

[Elfdart]

I think the best procedure would be to send a copy of the information to a member of Congress. If that doesn't get results, next stop: Teh Internets! Then any other outlet who might be interested. Trusting a hacker to keep it confidential was retarded. He might as well have whispered it into the ear of some homeless guy huffing glue out of a paper bag. It reminds me of this quote:

When anyone says to me, "Can you keep a secret?" I say, "Why should I, if you can't?"

[Elfdart]

My stance is actually around the same as Night_Stalkers'. If this idiot actually found something illegal and quietly reported it to the correct agency for investigation while maintaining security, I'd be applauding his actions. Nobody is above the law, so if it's been violated, then those that did so must be prosecuted, no matter who they are, who they think they are, or who they serve.

However, dingus here just grabbed a bunch of classified information, and tossed it onto the internet. He wasn't being a wistleblower, he's being an attention-whoring piece of shit that needs to be (and WILL be) stomped into a mudhole by the the courts and left to rot in prison. As it should be for what he's done. Even worse, if any of the information he's let loose gets anyone killed, I'd be all for dragging him up on murder charges. If it gets any Americans killed, haul his ass up on full-on Treason charges.

Why not add a few counts of aggravated mopery while you're at it?

The "Whoo! Stick it to the ebil gub'mint" stance is worthy of nothing but open derision and insult. Not agreeing with something be classified, and going through the proper channels and system to get said information un-classified is great. I'm glad such avenues of action exist. But attempting to buck the system for one's own amusement (or any other reason, from either side of the argument) deserves criminal charges of whatever severity is deemed necessary by the proper authorities.

If Daniel Ellsberg had followed your advice we might still be fighting in Vietnam now. So fuck you.

The Law is more important than personal feelings, causes or vendetta's.

Not when obeying that law leads to breaking other laws. What should a person do if they get hold of classified information that say, inmates are being tortured and murdered in a prison? Do they hand it over to the very institution that is doing the torture and murder? Do they give it other government agencies who cannot or will not do anything? Or do they leak it to the media? After all, failure to report a crime is itself a crime, as is taking part in an effort to cover up a crime. What would you do, Mr. Tough Guy?

[Vympel]

Enough with the murdering-the-leaker-comedy routine spam, people.

[loomer]

I'm not sure Wikileaks was the right option. They haven't published fuck all since the Collateral Murder video even though they're 'open' again, and frankly, I'm beginning to feel agitated. They've been down nearly a year, whining about funds and how they'd open the floodgates.

And here we are, with a man going to prison for helping them, and they haven't even published anything new in months. He should have passed them around via TOR or one of the other anonymizer networks, or to Cryptome.

[Edward Yee]

Trusting a hacker to keep it confidential was retarded. He might as well have whispered it into the ear of some homeless guy huffing glue out of a paper bag.

That's my ultimate issue with SPC Manning if the allegations hold up (him being the leaker, that is)... just because someone is a hacker does not make that hacker inherently sympathetic to your self-proclaimed whistleblowing, not least because s/he may plain not believe you (even if it's true/sincere from your own POV).

[Edi]

Yeah, I have sympathy towards him for doing what he thought was right. That said, if you come across shit like this, you give it over to authorities who can do something, not necessarily a web/blog site. Especially if he wanted whistle blower protection. These may be moral issues we're dealing with, but they are also legal ones as well. Much like the person who is a conscientious objector; kudo's for your principled stance, but don't run off to Canada or some shit to do it. Do it the legal way too.

Emphasis mine, and it's because the Obama administration has made a point of prosecuting anyone who blows the whistle on government wrongdoing related to this sort of actions. If you commit crimes while pursuing illegal means to wiretap people without surveillance etc, you will be protected at all costs. If you expose that sort of activity, you will be prosecuted by any means necessary.

So the only way this guy would not be in trouble is if he had just kept quiet about what he saw.

[Elfdart]

Yeah, I have sympathy towards him for doing what he thought was right. That said, if you come across shit like this, you give it over to authorities who can do something, not necessarily a web/blog site. Especially if he wanted whistle blower protection. These may be moral issues we're dealing with, but they are also legal ones as well. Much like the person who is a conscientious objector; kudo's for your principled stance, but don't run off to Canada or some shit to do it. Do it the legal way too.

Emphasis mine, and it's because the Obama administration has made a point of prosecuting anyone who blows the whistle on government wrongdoing related to this sort of actions. If you commit crimes while pursuing illegal means to wiretap people without surveillance etc, you will be protected at all costs. If you expose that sort of activity, you will be prosecuted by any means necessary.

So the only way this guy would not be in trouble is if he had just kept quiet about what he saw.

If he really wanted to avoid prosecution he should have water tortured someone.

[Coyote]

He also could have contacted a sympathetic news magazine as a "Confidential Informant". Mother Jones, maybe, is one. There are others.

[Knife]

Yeah, I have sympathy towards him for doing what he thought was right. That said, if you come across shit like this, you give it over to authorities who can do something, not necessarily a web/blog site. Especially if he wanted whistle blower protection. These may be moral issues we're dealing with, but they are also legal ones as well. Much like the person who is a conscientious objector; kudo's for your principled stance, but don't run off to Canada or some shit to do it. Do it the legal way too.

Emphasis mine, and it's because the Obama administration has made a point of prosecuting anyone who blows the whistle on government wrongdoing related to this sort of actions. If you commit crimes while pursuing illegal means to wiretap people without surveillance etc, you will be protected at all costs. If you expose that sort of activity, you will be prosecuted by any means necessary.

So the only way this guy would not be in trouble is if he had just kept quiet about what he saw.

All well and good, but what did he accomplish with his actual route? Outrage in a limited genre and about to be pounded in prison. If he would have approached someone outside his chain of command but responsible, Congress critter or US attorney, he would be more protected than he is now. Granted, nothing guarantee's that those people would do anything either, in which case he could go all 'deep throat' to a fucking news outlet on the DL. They would have protected a source like that up to and including going to jail for them.

What he did seems more and more unlike concerned citizen standing up for principle, and more like glory hound wanting to pimp his elite hacker skills. Everything inside of him that thought what he saw was wrong and illegal, I have sympathy for. Everything he did to supposedly stop what he thought was wrong, was stupid.

[Edi]

Knife, I don't disagree about this guy being an idiot and a glory hound, but you're very naive and very wrong if you think he would have gotten anything other than prosecution from his chain of command or that he would have been protected worth damn by the press.

Take a very good look at what the Obama administration is doing to whistleblowers who have done precisely as you suggested. With some googling, you will certainly find a lot more about the issue than you ever wanted to know.

The current US administration is only interested in protecting people who commit crimes in office, not those who expose them.

[Lonestar]

Yeah, he's not going to have a long time in prison before he "accidentally" throws himself down a flight of stairs, or "accidentally" stabs his kidneys with a homemade shiv.

Yeah that happens a lot in the US Military correctional institutions. I would like some examples to back up the implied claim there skippy.

[Knife]

Knife, I don't disagree about this guy being an idiot and a glory hound, but you're very naive and very wrong if you think he would have gotten anything other than prosecution from his chain of command or that he would have been protected worth damn by the press.

Take a very good look at what the Obama administration is doing to whistleblowers who have done precisely as you suggested. With some googling, you will certainly find a lot more about the issue than you ever wanted to know.

The current US administration is only interested in protecting people who commit crimes in office, not those who expose them.

That's fine, apparently they're fucking with whistle-blower rules. Conceded. However, it is not like he is getting a better deal with the route he took, and it doesn't seem to have caused that much controversy that perhaps a more main stream media outlet could have ran with.

[Elfdart]

He also could have contacted a sympathetic news magazine as a "Confidential Informant". Mother Jones, maybe, is one. There are others.

Except that wouldn't save him from prosecution. Only the newspaper or magazine has any kind of immunity. The source is shit out of luck. Glennzilla has more.

[MKSheppard]

Emphasis mine, and it's because the Obama administration has made a point of prosecuting anyone who blows the whistle on government wrongdoing related to this sort of actions.

You mean doing what George W Bush should have done with all the leaks and crap in his administration? Remember, in order to fucking SEE or HANDLE this fucking information -- you ahve to get a clearance -- and part of the process in being cleared is signing eleven billion papers that promise all kinds of assruining raping of you if you break the rules and leak information.

[Bakustra]

Emphasis mine, and it's because the Obama administration has made a point of prosecuting anyone who blows the whistle on government wrongdoing related to this sort of actions.

You mean doing what George W Bush should have done with all the leaks and crap in his administration? Remember, in order to fucking SEE or HANDLE this fucking information -- you ahve to get a clearance -- and part of the process in being cleared is signing eleven billion papers that promise all kinds of assruining raping of you if you break the rules and leak information.

So, then, Shep, is it your opinion that this should override the responsibility of government officials to the public? How should people who leak illegal activities or deceptions of the American public done by the US government be treated, then?