Obama to propose massive rebuilding program

[Dominus Atheos]

You seem confused on how exactly the nuclear option works. Here's Harvard's explanation:

First, a Senator would raise a point of order to close debate. For example, a Senator could state, “Debate on this matter having proceeded for ‘x’ hours, I make the point of order that any further debate is dilatory and not in order.” Under Senate Rule XX, points of order not referred to the Senate are not debatable except at the sufferance of the Presiding Officer, although debate may generally be had on appeals.363 If the Presiding Officer sustained the point of order, he would set a new, binding Senate precedent allowing Senators to cut off debate. That, however, would not end the matter. The minority could (and likely would) appeal the Presiding Officer’s ruling. In a final step, the majority could move to table the appeal. The tabling motion would be non-debatable and subject to immediate vote. If a simple majority voted to table the appeal, the Senate would affirm the Presiding Officer’s ruling and thus allow Senators to cut off debate under the terms of the point of order.

363. SENATE RULE XX, STANDING RULES OF THE SENATE, DOC. NO. 106-15, 106th Cong., 2d Sess. 14–15 (2000), available at http://rules.senate.gov/senaterules/menu.htm.

You also seem confused about the power of the Senate Parliamentarian. Here's a hint: He doesn't have any.

As a staff official, neither parliamentarian is empowered to make decisions that are binding on the
House or Senate. The parliamentarians and their deputies/assistants only offer advice that the presiding Representative or Senator may accept or reject;

[Patrick Degan]

Too little, too late. Infrastructure/public works should have been the first jobs-related stimulus measure proposed a year ago. There won't even be any action on this before the elections and so Obama and the Democrats will not have it to showcase to the voters as achievement or an example of Republicans wanting to kill the country through obstructionism just to regain power.

This is sort of like waiting until the bus is halfway to school before you start doing last night's homework.

[Darth Yan]

i wouldn't count obama out just yet. He's still got supporters and if he does follow through then he could gain some back.

[Pelranius]

A large part of Obama staying on will probably be due to the lunacy of the Teabaggers and such. That's also the reason why the KMT is still managing to stave off the DPP's pathetic political maneuvering in Taiwan.

[MKSheppard]

The commission Obama appointed to look for ways to reduce the deficit. This commission is stacked with millionaires who oppose Social Security and seek to use the panel as a means of tampering with Social Security...

You forgot throwing millions of veterans to the curb and fucking over active duty military personnel.

Link

According to the source, Cote and other members, including the commission's co-chair Alan Simpson, are focusing instead on "freezing military pay, making military people pay for their health care."

But it's nice to see that for once they're actually taking aim at some of the other side's sacred cows.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

So confident that Obama will lose, Elfdart?

If its Romney vs Obama particularly, odds are Obama crushes Romney. Romney is a notorious flip-flopper and lacks charisma.
Meanwhile Obama is a skilled campaigner and could probably sink Romney's hopes easily.

The problem is, everyone has already seen Obama's campaigning, and then watched him fail to live up to the hype. Romney, on the other hand, appears to be a pretty solid businessman during a huge financial crisis.

Yeah, but it's going to be a long, long time before I trust a 'fiscally conservative' Republican again, if ever.

But yeah, Obama failed to live up to the hype and I'm pretty certain at this point he's a one-term president. I'm pro-Democrat and I'm not sure if I'll be voting for him again in 2 years (though I won't be voting for the Republican candidate).

Obama would be better than whatever Tea Party knob-gobbler the Republicans are going to put up. Even if the GOP's present fascination with the teabaggers backfires hilariously this November, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory; Obama would still be far better than whatever Uncle Ronnie pole-polisher the Republicans are going to put up instead.

So, yeah, I'd vote for Obama again; and I'd encourage all the "Obama has left me disillusioned . . . I'm staying home!!11" people to vote for him again too.

[SirNitram]

It appears I was, Atheos. Thanks for finally giving something solid to reply to. And with the Presiding Officer being Cheney at their time. No question.

[The Romulan Republic]

I think people who say they know what the outcome of the next election is going to be are fools. Its not even the middle of the guy's term yet.

So when I see this nonesense, I just dismiss it and point them to the thread entitled "Does McCain already have the Election won?" back in 2008. This is just as premature.

[MKSheppard]

Waste of money. Like with the first Stimulus, it will achieve nothing -- I wonder if the One has relaxed his retarded 'shovel ready' rule which meant that only stuff that had been planned could get money; meaning a lot of municipalities took the plans for the new bridges or repavings they were planning to do next year on the local budget, did it this year and charged it against the Feds.

So now not having learned his lesson, Obama is proposing to do it all over again.

I got a better idea. Lets take that $50 billion and give it to NASA. $50 billion should be more than enough to fund Constellation -- both Ares I and V.

[KrauserKrauser]

Shep, you'd only get traction with Big O if there was a giant red crescent painted on the rockets, because last I checked he was more concerned with getting Muslims enthusiastic about the space program than actually do some actual space exploration done.

So far, Big O has no currency with me when it comes to economic programs, especially on the large scale. His track record shows that he is shit at the big picture. Why would we expect this to be any different?

[bobalot]

Shep, you'd only get traction with Big O if there was a giant red crescent painted on the rockets, because last I checked he was more concerned with getting Muslims enthusiastic about the space program than actually do some actual space exploration done.

When was this?

[KrauserKrauser]

It's just an exaggeration of the direction that Obama wants to go on. Instead of manned space flight, he shitcanned any prospect of us having a heavy lift vehicle in the next 20 years and touted how he wanted NASA to reach out to Muslims somehow for some reason.

He basically took a giant shit on NASA, just like he took a giant shit on healthcare, the economy, etc.

I'll admit that he as made some right calls, but more often than not when it comes to the big ticket items, he usually fucks it up royally.

[Thanas]

When did he take a "giant shit" on healthcare? Heck, so far it is one of his few big accomplishments (even though it lacks a few essential items).

[SirNitram]

When did he take a "giant shit" on healthcare? Heck, so far it is one of his few big accomplishments (even though it lacks a few essential items).

Nothing Obama did counts, because he didn't acheive it to the levels wanted by people who willingly forget he campaigned as a centrist and a bridgebuilder, and suddenly did as he was campaigning.

[Vympel]

Nothing Obama did counts, because he didn't acheive it to the levels wanted by people who willingly forget he campaigned as a centrist and a bridgebuilder, and suddenly did as he was campaigning.

I don't buy that bullshit. He fully support single payer in the past, he touted the public option as a solution, and then gave it away before negotiations even started. He never campaigned on the idea that his health care reform would be a milquetoast corporate handout.

[Thanas]

Yeah, he didn't even put up a fight for the public option. But okay, I can forgive him that.


What I cannot forgive him is his record on civil liberties, where he is (save torture) worse than Bush.

[SirNitram]

Nothing Obama did counts, because he didn't acheive it to the levels wanted by people who willingly forget he campaigned as a centrist and a bridgebuilder, and suddenly did as he was campaigning.

I don't buy that bullshit. He fully support single payer in the past, he touted the public option as a solution, and then gave it away before negotiations even started. He never campaigned on the idea that his health care reform would be a milquetoast corporate handout.

I still don't beleive in this corporate handout, for if it was, there wouldn't be so much money pouring into trying to stop it. Nor do I really beleive it's so ineffective. Especially as, tucked away, there's a usable form of government-funded health insurance. Sec. 1322, if you're interested. Hell, just stopping the 'pre-existing conditions' madness was something important.

[aerius]

I don't buy that bullshit. He fully support single payer in the past, he touted the public option as a solution, and then gave it away before negotiations even started. He never campaigned on the idea that his health care reform would be a milquetoast corporate handout.

I still don't beleive in this corporate handout, for if it was, there wouldn't be so much money pouring into trying to stop it. Nor do I really beleive it's so ineffective. Especially as, tucked away, there's a usable form of government-funded health insurance. Sec. 1322, if you're interested. Hell, just stopping the 'pre-existing conditions' madness was something important.

If the health insurance companies are jacking their rates to increase revenue because of the healthcare reform bill, then isn't that effectively a corporate handout?

A couple excerpts from a WSJ article

Health insurers say they plan to raise premiums for some Americans as a direct result of the health overhaul in coming weeks, complicating Democrats' efforts to trumpet their signature achievement before the midterm elections.

Aetna Inc., some BlueCross BlueShield plans and other smaller carriers have asked for premium increases of between 1% and 9% to pay for extra benefits required under the law, according to filings with state regulators.

These and other insurers say Congress's landmark refashioning of U.S. health coverage, which passed in March after a brutal fight, is causing them to pass on more costs to consumers than Democrats predicted.

About 9% of Americans buy coverage through the individual market, according to the Census Bureau, and roughly one-fifth of people who get coverage through their employer work at companies with 50 or fewer employees, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation. People in both groups are likely to feel the effects of the proposed increases, even as they see new benefits under the law, such as the elimination of lifetime and certain annual coverage caps.

Many carriers also are seeking additional rate increases that they say they need to cover rising medical costs. As a result, some consumers could face total premium increases of more than 20%.

While the increases apply mostly to the new policies insurers write after Oct. 1, consumers could be subject to the higher rates if they modify their existing plans and cause them to lose grandfathered status.

In any case it sure as hell ain't making healthcare any cheaper.

[SirNitram]

I'm afraid I have to ask why we should beleive the health insurance companies as to their reasons. What about them is especially truthful? Why not just 'Ooo, an excuse, let's fuck some people for more money', which is about what they've done re: pre-existing conditions, etc.

[aerius]

We shouldn't believe them because they're money-grubbing scumbags, but does it really matter? In any case they're jacking their rates and taking more money from the people which was one of the things healthcare reform was supposed to stop. It didn't, and the companies are using it as a reason to jack their rates which I'd claim is effectively a corporate bailout. More money for insurance companies, fuck the people. Sounds like a bailout to me.

[Dominus Atheos]

What I cannot forgive him is his record on civil liberties, where he is (save torture) worse than Bush.

That is debatable. Obama counts as an Accessory after the fact as defined by US law:

Whoever, knowing that an offense against the United States has been committed, receives, relieves, comforts or assists the offender in order to hinder or prevent his apprehension, trial or punishment, is an accessory after the fact.

Accessories can usually be charged with the same crime as the person they are shielding but can only get half the punishment, so Obama can also be charged with war crimes.

[bobalot]

It's just an exaggeration of the direction that Obama wants to go on. Instead of manned space flight, he shitcanned any prospect of us having a heavy lift vehicle in the next 20 years and touted how he wanted NASA to reach out to Muslims somehow for some reason.

Do you have any proof that that the two are linked? Or is this some stupid bullshit connection you made up?

[Edi]

The healthcare reform bill only accounts for 10% to 30% of the insurance rate raises. So the insurance companies were intent on gouging people anyway and now they can conveniently blame it on Obama.

Link.

[Thanas]

What I cannot forgive him is his record on civil liberties, where he is (save torture) worse than Bush.

That is debatable. Obama counts as an Accessory after the fact as defined by US law:

*wince*

Please, do not try to discuss criminal law in the USA with me.

[KrauserKrauser]

Do you have any proof that that the two are linked? Or is this some stupid bullshit connection you made up?

They are linked in as much as they are the current objectives of NASA under the Obama administration. First, Obama shit canned Ares/Constellation wasting more than it would have cost to maintain the program by closing the program. Second, NASA announced that the replacement isn't on the drawing boards yet but will be better, promise plzkthxbye. Third, NASA announces that additional resources will now be used to promote NASA and space flight to Muslims around the world, for what ever reason.

Why not Hindu, Mormon or even Christian specific outreach? Why is religion involved in space flight in any way? Because that is the way Obama wants it. Can't speak as to why, but I can speak as to the stupidity of the decision.

Since these are the decisions that have been made by the director of NASA and Obama sets the agenda for the director, this is presumably what Obama wants NASA to be doing. No manned space flight in the next twenty years, but the Muslims will feel better about it.

Hey, maybe it will motivate them to start their own spaceflight program and now that Obama destroyed all of our possible heavy lift capacity and we will have to buy it from them! Why? Because Obama is fucking retarded when it comes to his NASA agenda.