Korean situation thread

[TithonusSyndrome]

I tried googling that phrase and came up with a Hebrew publication stating that the Japanese PM is insisting that Obama authorize a joint ROK/US/Japanese military reprisal. I am almost certain this is a bunk source, but it does confirm that the statement is out there.

[adam_grif]

Smart money's on "nothing happens".

1019: British Foreign Secretary William Hague says: "The UK strongly condemns North Korea's unprovoked attack... We strongly urge North Korea to refrain from such attacks and adhere to the Korean Armistice agreement."
...

1000: Russia's defence ministry tells Interfax that "the ministry is closely following the recent escalation of tension on the Korean Peninsula. However, no decision to put units of the Eastern Military District on high alert has been taken".

[Archaic`]

There's been some Tweets form @LiveNewsWire: ALERT: A North Korean naval fleet is moving toward South Korea, according to news agency - MBC.

Fortunately, I can't find it on their page anywhere, so it may be a hoax, a really stupid hoax.

By MBC, they mean the South Korean Munhwa Broadcasting Corporation, right?

[Ritterin Sophia]

By MBC, they mean the South Korean Munhwa Broadcasting Corporation, right?

I have no clue, like I said I can't find the original Tweet on their page, only repeats of it from other people, which is why I'm not ruling out hoax.

[Archaic`]

The original tweet is here. It was posted by LiveNewsWire, not by MBC, who wouldn't even be posting messages in English anyway. It's possible going from the other things posted here that it comes from MBC TV or Radio. The Twitter account isn't new, and generally only posts breaking stories from reputable sources.

[Zac Naloen]

S Korea have stated that they were performing military exercises and test firings, but they were firing West not North.

If N Korea try to claim they were defending themselves this should be easy enough to refute.

[hongi]

My grandfather, a Korean war vet, passed away a week ago. If war breaks out, thank God he won't be there to see it again. Oh god my family...

[wautd]

The fact that this time civilians were targetted making it worse than the sinking of that recent military ship. It's a pure act of war, a war NK can't possibly win but I'm afraid that after a few decades, they're started to believe their own propaganda.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Just another attempt by the resident school bully, backed by another much bigger one, trying to intimidate its neighbours.

Move along.. Move along...

[Ritterin Sophia]

More foreboding news:

Link

SEOUL, Nov. 23 (Yonhap) -- President Lee Myung-bak ordered his military Tuesday to strike North Korea's missile base around its coastline artillery positions if it shows signs of additional provocation, his spokeswoman said.

In a video conference with Gen. Han Min-koo, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the president ordered "multiple-fold retaliation" against the North for its artillery attack on a South Korean island, according to presidential spokeswoman Kim Hee-jung.

[MKSheppard]

Bah. If nothing happens by Thanksgiving (US) nothing will happen.

[dragon]

as can't open the link above here

Seoul, South Korea (CNN) -- In a sharp escalation of hostility along their disputed sea border, North and South Korean forces traded fire Tuesday, a deadly skirmish that jacked up diplomatic tensions in a volatile region.

Two South Korean marines were killed and 15 South Korean soldiers and civilians were wounded when the North fired about 100 rounds of artillery at Yeonpyeong Island in the Yellow Sea, South Korea authorities said, according to the South Korean Yonhap news agency.

South Korea's military responded with more than 80 rounds of artillery and deployed fighter jets to counter the fire, defense officials said.

Firing between the two sides lasted for about an hour in the Yellow Sea, a longstanding flashpoint between the two Koreas. In March, a South Korean warship, the Cheonan was sunk in the area with the loss of 46 lives in a suspected North Korean torpedo attack.

This latest action occurred during South Korean maritime military drills.

In Seoul, the South Korea government swiftly denounced the action as an "indisputable armed provocation against the Republic of Korea. Making matters worse, it even indiscriminately fired against civilians. Such actions will never be tolerated."



Map: N. Korea shells S. Korean island

Sharp tensions on the Korean Peninsula

Report: N. Korea fires on S. Korea
RELATED TOPICS
North Korea
South Korea
In its statement, the South Korean government said it "immediately and strongly responded to the provocation in accordance with the rules of engagement" and will retaliate against any additional acts of provocation in a resolute manner."

North Korea, meanwhile, said the incident stemmed from South Korean military drills, codenamed Hoguk, exercises that Pyongyang calls "war maneuvers for a war of aggression."

The "South Korean puppet group" engaged in "reckless military provocation" by firing "dozens of shells" inside its territorial waters "despite the repeated warnings of the DPRK" or Democratic People's Republic of Korea, the North's military said in a statement.

"The revolutionary armed forces of the DPRK standing guard over the inviolable territorial waters of the country took such decisive military step as reacting to the military provocation of the puppet group with a prompt powerful physical strike," the statement said.

"It is a traditional mode of counter-action of the army of the DPRK to counter the firing of the provocateurs with merciless strikes," said the statement, which warned that it "will unhesitatingly continue taking merciless military counter-actions against it" if the border is crossed.

Sanctions have been progressively placed on North Korea in response to a succession of nuclear and missile tests and the sinking of the South Korean warship in March. Countries that have been negotiating with North Korea over its nuclear program issued swift reaction.

The United States "strongly" condemned North Korea's action, and a U.S. Defense official told CNN that the "hope is that this is just one isolated incident, not an escalation into a different military posture" by the North.

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei said China had "taken note of relevant reports" and expressed its "concern." "Relevant facts need to be verified and we hope both parties make more contributions to the stability of the peninsula," he said.

Russia's Interfax news agency said Russia condemned North Korea's artillery shelling and said "those who initiated the attack on a South Korean island in the northern part of the inter-Korean maritime border line assumed enormous responsibility."

Japanese Prime Minister Naoto Kan urged his cabinet members and related ministries to put the utmost effort to gather the information on the NK artillery attack as well as to prepare for unexpected development of the situation.

Yeonpyeong island is part of a small archipelago about 80 kilometers [49 miles] west of the South Korean port of Inchon, which serves Seoul, and is close to the tense Northern Limit Line, the maritime border between the two Koreas in the Yellow Sea.

North Korean artillery is extremely difficult to hit, because it is dug into coastal cliffs. Though the North has tested its artillery -- and tested anti-shipping missiles -- it has not fired artillery into South Korean territory in recent years.

One of North Korea's most potent threats is artillery dug in along its demilitarized zone with South Korea and ranged on Seoul.

While the reason for the attack was in dispute, North Korea watchers had theories.

"I think they are very frustrated with Washington's response to their uranium program and they think that Washington has almost given up on negotiations with North Korea," said Choi Jin-wook, senior researcher at the Korea Institute of National Unification.

"I think they realize they can't expect anything from Washington or Seoul for several months, so I think they made the provocation."

"I definitely think this is centrally directed from Pyongyang. This can't be done without orders from Pyongyang," he added.

Over the weekend, news broke that North Korea had showed off its uranium-enrichment facilities to a visiting U.S. scientist. Washington reacted by saying that the North's nuclear moves had been clear all along.

The United States said it would not dismiss restarting six-party talks aimed at denuclearizing the North. However, it said it would not return to negotiations unless North Korea showed good faith.

North Korea is desperately reaching for bargaining chips, Choi said.

"They want food. They are starving to death. They are trying to make Seoul and Washington move. Otherwise, they are in big trouble," Choi said before Tuesday's artillery attack. "And this is a transition period for the North Korean leadership; they need to provide gifts to the elite, but they don't have the resources."

Meanwhile, with national leader Kim Jong Il apparently in ailing health, his son Kim Jong Un is being raised to prominence in the isolated state, in what pundits see as a succession process.

link

[Cecelia5578]

Has any city as modern and populated as Seoul been dialed in and targeted by shitloads of artillery and missiles? I don't know of any major first world city that has come under heavy, sustained bombardment since World War 2. Inchon, (the home of the ROK's major international airport and a major port) probably isn't going to make it out of a war very well either.

[AMT]

Has any city as modern and populated as Seoul been dialed in and targeted by shitloads of artillery and missiles? I don't know of any major first world city that has come under heavy, sustained bombardment since World War 2. Inchon, (the home of the ROK's major international airport and a major port) probably isn't going to make it out of a war very well either.

The Iraqi capital?

[Highlord Laan]

*Whoops* Mispost.

[Broomstick]

Has any city as modern and populated as Seoul been dialed in and targeted by shitloads of artillery and missiles? I don't know of any major first world city that has come under heavy, sustained bombardment since World War 2. Inchon, (the home of the ROK's major international airport and a major port) probably isn't going to make it out of a war very well either.

In theory, both US and USSR "modern and populated" cities had missiles targeted at them throughout the cold war... but obviously no one ever fired any of those missiles.

I agree, though, that Baghdad is the only major city that has come close to that sort of bombardment since WWII

[The Romulan Republic]

Has any city as modern and populated as Seoul been dialed in and targeted by shitloads of artillery and missiles? I don't know of any major first world city that has come under heavy, sustained bombardment since World War 2. Inchon, (the home of the ROK's major international airport and a major port) probably isn't going to make it out of a war very well either.

In theory, both US and USSR "modern and populated" cities had missiles targeted at them throughout the cold war... but obviously no one ever fired any of those missiles.

I agree, though, that Baghdad is the only major city that has come close to that sort of bombardment since WWII

Weren't cities bombed by America during Vietnam?

[Sea Skimmer]

Basra was flattened in the Iran-Iraq war, so were Khorramshahr and Abadan across the river in Iran. Then we have Grozny, Sarajevo, Fallujah Beirut with extensive to massive damage and plenty of minor cities like Hu and An Loc which were effectively obliterated. The 1991 and 2003 bombardments of Baghdad were small, especially when you consider how massive and target packed the city really was. Iran dropped more bombs and missile warheads on Baghdad then the US did in 91. These are just the examples that come to mind, I do believe I am missing a few.

Of course one also can't forget that Seoul itself was already leveled once in 1951 when UN forces retook the city after it fell to the third CCF offensives.

[Kyler]

Besides NK's overwhelming superior numbers in artillery and SSM's they also have a huge special forces community. NK by percentage of their overall military has the largest number of special forces. A good portion are trained in sabotage and infiltration. They to be flown into the county in old An-2 Colt biplanes. Since the these particular Colt's have more wood and fabric than their Russian counterparts, they are more stealthy.

Don't know how well a massive infiltration attack would go. Probably be pretty unsuccesful but would probably buy the NK regular Army much need time to do a lot of damage.

[Sephirius]

Also I'd just like to give a shout out to the American News Media who instead of keeping us up to date on the potential event of the Korean War touching off again are instead talking about Partisan Politics. Good job guys.

That or the whole Natalee Holloway case thing. Who gives a shit?

[Kyler]

Also I'd just like to give a shout out to the American News Media who instead of keeping us up to date on the potential event of the Korean War touching off again are instead talking about Partisan Politics. Good job guys.

That or the whole Natalee Holloway case thing. Who gives a shit?

Or the fucking Prince of England getting married!

The media needs to figure out their fucking priorities.

[Broomstick]

Weren't cities bombed by America during Vietnam?

Well, sure - but how big were they? And the US concentrated a lot of effort on defoliating the jungle countryside. It wasn't quite the same sort of bombing as, say, Dresden experienced in WWII. Admittedly there may be quite a few examples I've overlooked, I can't know everything!

Or the fucking Prince of England getting married!

The media needs to figure out their fucking priorities.

Personally, I can live with one story that isn't all blood and death and doom-saying, ya know?

[Zixinus]

The media needs to figure out their fucking priorities

It has.

War between two nations? If it doesn't involve us or our close allies, who gives a shit?

Some European guy having a wedding, a guy's who's most notable archivement is coming out of a royal vagina? STOP THE PRESSES! EVERYONE WANTS TO KNOW ABOUT THAT!

It's about fashion and sensationalism, trying to get as many viewers as possible against the competition. Good journalism and news? Won't rise people's emotions (and thus interest) as a good scandal or angry politics (or better yet, angry politicians).

[Chardok]

You'd think there would be minute-by-minute updates for something like this...I'm not seeing it and I have to say I'm intensely interested to see how this plays out.

[Stravo]

Before going all "the media sucks" I think what the media puts on is more of a reflection of what we want than some corporate conspiracy. A lot of serious reporters have complained for years that when they do in-depth reporting or focus on serious stories the ratings go down. Put on royal weddings or celebrity gossip and ratings go up. The media gives the public what they want.

But right now I am pretty worried and hope to see more news about this because it's one of those scenarios that can quickly escalate.