China Orders Pro Commie TV Propaganda Blitz

[Samuel]

How would an embargo help? It would slow down the economy of China and prevent them from improving living standards. The Chinese government might not be compasionate in foreign affairs, but we still trade with France. To decry one and not the other is hypocritical.

Also while China cracks down on dissidents so the party can hold onto power, the numbers aren't huge. I think official arrests for political crimes are under a thousand- 7 for every 10 million people. Even if you assume all executions are political that ends up with 7.5 for every a million people.

That isn't good, but it isn't outstanding bad- certainly less than would die from any sudden halt in their economic growth.

[Molyneux]

How would an embargo help? It would slow down the economy of China and prevent them from improving living standards. The Chinese government might not be compasionate in foreign affairs, but we still trade with France. To decry one and not the other is hypocritical.

Also while China cracks down on dissidents so the party can hold onto power, the numbers aren't huge. I think official arrests for political crimes are under a thousand- 7 for every 10 million people. Even if you assume all executions are political that ends up with 7.5 for every a million people.

That isn't good, but it isn't outstanding bad- certainly less than would die from any sudden halt in their economic growth.

You're absolutely right, I shouldn't give a damn about China imprisoning political dissidents. They're not murdering them in the thousands, therefore it's not worthy of comment. Why, my eyes are opened! I guess political oppression really isn't anything too bad, as long as they keep the numbers below a reasonable percentage of the population!

I think I'll let this post stand as a testament to the massive superiority of Western propaganda over its counterparts.

You know what, you're right, Liu Xiaobo is just a figment of my imagination. Don't know why I ever thought otherwise. And Tienamen Square was performance art.

Completely unsurprised by this sort of thing, seeing full well how those with an ideological axe to grind will invariably find any and every little excuse and trick in the book to savage anyone whose mere existence acts against their notions of superiority.

Go sit on a cactus. I don't get mad about Communism versus Capitalism, I get mad about human rights violations. China is an oppressive regime just like Iran or Afghanistan; any differences are a matter of degree, not kind...but because they're friendly to business interests, they get a free ride in comparison.

[fgalkin]

In that case, shouldn't you be protesting for the release of Bradley Manning? It's much closer to home and you can actually have an impact. Or that whole "start a war that kills hundreds of thousands for random reasons/profit. Otherwise, glass houses, etc.

There are plenty of Western countries that do unsavory things. Most of them get away with it without any outrage because their media prefers to report on things like this. So, China gets all the hate, while countries like France get out scott free.

Yay double standards.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Molyneux]

In that case, shouldn't you be protesting for the release of Bradley Manning? It's much closer to home and you can actually have an impact. Or that whole "start a war that kills hundreds of thousands for random reasons/profit. Otherwise, glass houses, etc.

There are plenty of Western countries that do unsavory things. Most of them get away with it without any outrage because their media prefers to report on things like this. So, China gets all the hate, while countries like France get out scott free.

Yay double standards.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

You're damn right that I'm angry about Bradley Manning. How the fuck does that make China less worthy of disgust?

[mr friendly guy]

I mean, if a blatantly false story has gotten him riled up like that, I can only commend the Beeb for its excellence. I mean, when they write articles like this, what else can one expect? (Hint: Most of Sudanese technicals are still Toyta pickups. Let's go after them for breaking the embargo!)


Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Its that time to bring out this old chestnut.

unfortunately one has to be a British citizen to watch this report from James Reynolds

you tube response showing some of James Reynold's original clips and showing how his claim is blatantly not true.

BBC's Vicky Pollard ish yes no, no but, apology.

Essentially BBC reporter extraordinaire James Reynold's claimed that Beijing tried to hide the protests at the London leg of the Olympic torch relay to show its people that noooo problems occurred. After youtube of all places showed how bullshit this is, BBC issued an apology but put in this disclaimer, well, when Mr Reynolds made his report, the Chinese media hadn't broadcast it yet, so it seemed like China didn't know about the protests. And yes BBC did admit they were debunked by youtube. My how the mighty have fallen.

Going by that thing, a news organisation could theoretically have its correspondent in another country know about something before that country's media had time to broadcast (due to time difference), ask the public about it who would naturally be ignorant, and then say, look the government is covering things up.

After China jailed Liu Xiabo I got interested in what his views. He doesn't deserved to be jailed for having different views, but if he was on SD.net a lot of people here will find his views repugnant. Take this from wiki

Liu also published a 2004 article in support of Bush's war on Iraq, titled "Victory to the Anglo-American Freedom Alliance", in which he praised the U.S. led post-cold-war wars as "best examples of how war should be conducted in a modern civilization." and predicted "a free, democratic and peaceful Iraq will emerge."[23] During the 2004 US presidential election, Liu again praised Bush for his war effort against Iraq and condemned Democratic party candidate John Kerry for not sufficiently supporting the US's wars.

I am sure those dead Iraqis would agree.

Along the way (the wiki article shows) some blatant double standards.

Known for his pro-West stance, Liu once stated in an interview: "Modernization means whole-sale westernization, choosing a human life is choosing Western way of life. Difference between Western and Chinese governing system is humane vs in-humane, there's no middle ground... Westernization is not a choice of a nation, but a choice for the human race"

At least even the CCP recognises the US has done human right violations, Liu just seems to be living in his dream world where the West is a goddamn utopia and doesn't have its own problems. How many times have we posted articles here complaining about the US, by Americans?

Personally, the CCP would be better off letting this guy dig his own hole than jailing him. I mean anyone putting such views on SD.net would be ripped apart relatively easily.

[mr friendly guy]

Yet another reason to be very glad that I don't live anywhere the fuck near China.

If we apply your logic, are you therefore NOT glad that you live in the US (your sig says long island). After all the US has its own human rights violations which people on this very board bitch about.

Why are we not embargoing the fuck out of them, again?

Let me think about that one.

Who lends you the money so you guys can live beyond your means and rack up debt? Who provides >90% of the rare earths required for you to have your smart phones, and your high tech gizmos? Who provided all those cheap goods allowing you to combat inflation?

Seriously, did you even think this through? Its like me saying I disagree with the US torture of detainees, so why aren't we bombing the shit out of their military again.

Remember that Nobel Peace Prize winner who's still rotting in a cell?

As opposed to the Nobel Peace Prize winner who locks people up without trial in the Gitmo?

Why aren't you doing everything in your power to leave the US?

[Molyneux]

Why aren't you doing everything in your power to leave the US?

As disgusting as what's happening to Bradley Manning is, to claim that China and the US are morally equivalent based on that is idiocy. In case you're too thick to realize this, the US government does not jail people for criticizing it...unlike, say, China. We have problems, that's very true, but we're a damn sight better than China is on the human-rights front - and while I'll do all I can to advocate stopping shit like Guantanamo, trying to use that to claim that I should ignore China's far-worse behavior is utter bullshit.

[fgalkin]

You're damn right that I'm angry about Bradley Manning. How the fuck does that make China less worthy of disgust?

It just makes you seem like a giant hypocrite, saying things like "Yet another reason to be very glad that I don't live anywhere the fuck near China" while living in a place that is arguably just as bad if not worse.

Why aren't you doing everything in your power to leave the US?

As disgusting as what's happening to Bradley Manning is, to claim that China and the US are morally equivalent based on that is idiocy. In case you're too thick to realize this, the US government does not jail people for criticizing it...unlike, say, China. We have problems, that's very true, but we're a damn sight better than China is on the human-rights front - and while I'll do all I can to advocate stopping shit like Guantanamo, trying to use that to claim that I should ignore China's far-worse behavior is utter bullshit.

You mean starting wars that kill hundreds of thousands, abducting foreign citizens, imprisoning dissidents without trial and torturing journalists to reveal their sources doesn't count?

Oh wait, I forgot, they're brown people. Of course they don't count against the US's human rights record.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Samuel]

You're absolutely right, I shouldn't give a damn about China imprisoning political dissidents. They're not murdering them in the thousands, therefore it's not worthy of comment. Why, my eyes are opened! I guess political oppression really isn't anything too bad, as long as they keep the numbers below a reasonable percentage of the population!

It may surprise you, but embargos tend to be really bad at effecting political change. North Korea and Cuba are good examples of cutting of trade not working at all.

I'm not seeing it is good China does this- I'm just saying that using force or cutting off trade to get them to stop doing this will harm more people than the state currently oppresses.

The status quo is the less bad option. We should continuely pressure China to improve (although they will simply claim hypocricy), but we don't really have any tools to force them to change, anymore than China has any control over the US.

[K. A. Pital]

Why aren't you doing everything in your power to leave the US?

As disgusting as what's happening to Bradley Manning is, to claim that China and the US are morally equivalent based on that is idiocy. In case you're too thick to realize this, the US government does not jail people for criticizing it...unlike, say, China. We have problems, that's very true, but we're a damn sight better than China is on the human-rights front - and while I'll do all I can to advocate stopping shit like Guantanamo, trying to use that to claim that I should ignore China's far-worse behavior is utter bullshit.

Yeah, sure, moral superiority. Remind me, how many people has China killed in wars during the last 20 years? How many has the US killed? "Moral superiority" is not as one-sided as "we treat our higher race own citizens better, so we are morally superior, no matter how many other people we have killed".

And Tienamen Square was performance art.

And if China on that day became democratic, like those African good democracies, absolutely no people would have died, no sir. Not like in, say, the USSR, where hundreds of thousands died in local conflicts and millions plunged into poverty because of a power collapse, that didn't happen - it's just a figment of my imagination.

Indeed, I can see Western propaganda is superior. Any Western infringements on human rights are not worth even leaving the Western nation commiting them. Any Chinese infringements are not just worth leaving China, protesting against it or something... They worth destroying China as a political entity, crushing them utterly. Yeah. When I hear this racist, supremacist holier-than-thou crap again, I might vomit, yeah.

[Molyneux]

Indeed, I can see Western propaganda is superior. Any Western infringements on human rights are not worth even leaving the Western nation commiting them. Any Chinese infringements are not just worth leaving China, protesting against it or something... They worth destroying China as a political entity, crushing them utterly. Yeah. When I hear this racist, supremacist holier-than-thou crap again, I might vomit, yeah.

Because all crimes are equal, you betcha they are, and it's absolutely impossible to have varying degrees of anger against two different countries...even when one of those countries has the oppression of its own people built in right from the start! You sure set me straight there, fuckhead.

Fuck your racism and fuck your supremacism; I don't give a shit what color or ethnicity the leadership of China is, I despise them because they oppress their own fucking people - on a far greater scale than America ever has, in absolutely objective terms, you half-witted trouser-eater. Go sit in a corner until you're capable of debating without sounding like an idiot.

It may surprise you, but embargos tend to be really bad at effecting political change. North Korea and Cuba are good examples of cutting of trade not working at all.

I'm not seeing it is good China does this- I'm just saying that using force or cutting off trade to get them to stop doing this will harm more people than the state currently oppresses.

The status quo is the less bad option. We should continuely pressure China to improve (although they will simply claim hypocricy), but we don't really have any tools to force them to change, anymore than China has any control over the US.

It'd be nice if there were some kind of global police force that could remove oppressive regimes (without the attendant issues and stench of imperialism that surrounds America when it attempts that), but yeah, you have a good point. It's still maddening that we treat China like a reasonable trade partner when they're imprisoning their own people for political crimes.

It just makes you seem like a giant hypocrite, saying things like "Yet another reason to be very glad that I don't live anywhere the fuck near China" while living in a place that is arguably just as bad if not worse.

You have got to be shitting me. You might want to re-read your post, there, because I think your brain was turned off or something.
You're seriously saying that China - "Kill the Falun Gong" China - is better than the United States on human rights violations - especially human rights violations regarding its own people?

Jesus fuck, man, you really need to think before you type. Last I checked, I don't think you can be jailed in the United States for calling a political party a bunch of cunt-munchers.

You mean starting wars that kill hundreds of thousands, abducting foreign citizens, imprisoning dissidents without trial and torturing journalists to reveal their sources doesn't count?

Those are all horrible things, I'll freely admit. However, you seem to be skipping over the fact that it's fucking China we're talking about. You know? Mao Zedong? "Great Leap Forward"? Falun Gong? One-Child Policy? Communist Party? Zhang Zhixin? Hu Jia? That China?

You're talking about a country that's kept an oppressive government in place over its people, killed tens of thousands of its own fucking population, since the late 1950s.

Oh, and as far as living in a country goes, the distinction between its human rights record with regard to its own citizenry as opposed to others goddamn well does matter.

[K. A. Pital]

Because all crimes are equal, you betcha they are, and it's absolutely impossible to have varying degrees of anger against two different countries...even when one of those countries has the oppression of its own people built in right from the start! You sure set me straight there, fuckhead.

Yeah, right from the start. The US was founded by slavers, the epitome of opression, and remained a slavocracy for almost a century. Whoop de fuck, you shot your own argument in the foot.

Fuck your racism and fuck your supremacism; I don't give a shit what color or ethnicity the leadership of China is, I despise them because they oppress their own fucking people - on a far greater scale than America ever has

See above, you're an idiot.

It'd be nice if there were some kind of global police force that could remove oppressive regimes (without the attendant issues and stench of imperialism that surrounds America when it attempts that), but yeah, you have a good point. It's still maddening that we treat China like a reasonable trade partner when they're imprisoning their own people for political crimes.

Hey, idiot, you were trading with Pinochet whom you installed when he was imprisoning people for political crimes. You were trading with Mubarak, Ben Ali, you're trading with Saudi Arabia, you're trading with everyone and his dog who are imprisoning people for political crimes. You wouldn't be trading with most nations if you stopped trading with people who have political prisoners. Except, unlike China, many of the regimes you're trading with aren't even barely improving the life conditions for their citizens. Your staple client, Mubarak, who led his nation to ruin with rampant poverty and 90% youth unemployment, is just a recent example. So fuck you, hypocrite.

Those are all horrible things, I'll freely admit. However, you seem to be skipping over the fact that it's fucking China we're talking about. You know? Mao Zedong? "Great Leap Forward"? Falun Gong? One-Child Policy? Communist Party? Zhang Zhixin? Hu Jia? That China?

Yeah, we're talking about the United States. Atlantic Slave trade, Uncle Tom's Cabin, lynchings, KKK, deportations of Japanese Americans, labour armies, thousands of poor migrants dead building canals in Louisiana and railways in the nation. That USA?

I love how you lump the one-child policy with Great Leap Foward. Another clear indication we're dealing with a clinical idiot. But sure, let's ignore demographic issues like overpopulation - that anti-condom, anti-birth control, "pro life" policy is sure helping India, Africa, Brazil... whoops, maybe not.

Oh, and as far as living in a country goes, the distinction between its human rights record with regard to its own citizenry as opposed to others goddamn well does matter.

Really? Why? You'd be happy to be a German in Nazi Germany? I see, I see, hypocrite racist shit. Opression only matters when it's done to Homo Superior. If your nation is only killing OTHERS, that's somehow morally superior to opression of your own citizens. Because... I don't know? How is a British citizen or American citizen worth more than an Iraqi or an Indian? They're not, they're all humans, except in the minds of supremacist idiots.

[fgalkin]

You have got to be shitting me. You might want to re-read your post, there, because I think your brain was turned off or something.
You're seriously saying that China - "Kill the Falun Gong" China - is better than the United States on human rights violations - especially human rights violations regarding its own people?

Do you even know anything about the Falun Gong? I mean, aside from the pamphlets you get at their protests?

Jesus fuck, man, you really need to think before you type. Last I checked, I don't think you can be jailed in the United States for calling a political party a bunch of cunt-munchers.

Neither will you be jailed in China, but hey, don't let facts stand in the way of a good racist screed.

Those are all horrible things, I'll freely admit. However, you seem to be skipping over the fact that it's fucking China we're talking about. You know? Mao Zedong? "Great Leap Forward"? Falun Gong? One-Child Policy? Communist Party? Zhang Zhixin? Hu Jia? That China?

You're talking about a country that's kept an oppressive government in place over its people, killed tens of thousands of its own fucking population, since the late 1950s.

You mean, compared to the USA, which is all about the Trail of Tears, smallpox blankets, slavery, human medical experimentation, lynch mobs, and countless wars of imperial aggression? Yeah, sure, public mockery and re-education camps are certainly worse than genocide.

Oh, and as far as living in a country goes, the distinction between its human rights record with regard to its own citizenry as opposed to others goddamn well does matter.

Unless you're a black man in Texas, of course.

Oh wait, I forgot, those don't count, either, just like brown people. Because it's only white people from Long Island that truly matter.

You, sir, are despicable human garbage.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Lusankya]

Do you even know anything about the Falun Gong? I mean, aside from the pamphlets you get at their protests?

I very much doubt he's even read one of the pamphlets you get at their protests, because if he had read one of them, he would have realised that the combination of crazy racist stuff that would fit in perfectly at St--mfront* as well as the entire chapter "On Why the Chinese Communist Party is an Anti-Universe Force", he would realise that the CCP's hatred of them is not entirely random. He might not agree with it, but it's definitely far more reasonable than grabbing random Guatemalans and infecting them with STDs just 'cause.

*Eg. The claim that there is a white heaven for white people and a yellow heaven for yellow people. Mixed race people are just shit out of luck - no heaven for them!

Yet another reason to be very glad that I don't live anywhere the fuck near China.
Why are we not embargoing the fuck out of them, again? They may be a big market for Western goods, but their government still imprisons people who look at it sideways. Remember that Nobel Peace Prize winner who's still rotting in a cell?

Embargoing...China...

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Well, doing something. Write up letters of marque against their shipping, or something.

Every time I hear news about business interests in China, it just brings to mind exactly how much of a shithole their government is; I would barely shed a tear if their entire political structure spontaneously vomited up their lungs.

You know, the government that you detest so much has also lifted more people out of poverty in the last 30 years than any other single organisation. It's all very well for you to talk about democracy and freedom, but last I checked, you're not one of the people who has to consider the difficulty of forming a democratic government that is both representative and efficient for a country of 1.3 billion people. Nor are you one of the people who has to weigh the benefits of "more freedom for everyone" (whatever that means) against illiterate peasants getting plumbing three years earlier than they would if they had to live under an inefficient democratic regime.

Hey Lus, I was wondering if you know the title of this Chinese movie based on my recollection posted on another thread.

..... there's a Chinese movie I saw years ago about two adult brothers living with their father, who runs a bath-house. One son wants to do something other than work in the bath-house while the other one is mentally handicapped but loves to sing except he only sings good when he's in the shower. Nevertheless, the father passes away and the non-handicapped son takes over his business.

I forgot the plot but it was a very good movie. All I remember in the end was that the MH son was able to sing in front of an audience because someone (I think his brother) setup a shower on stage.

The other brother ends up keeping his father's business.

You're thinking of Shower.

[mr friendly guy]

Why aren't you doing everything in your power to leave the US?

As disgusting as what's happening to Bradley Manning is, to claim that China and the US are morally equivalent based on that is idiocy. In case you're too thick to realize this, the US government does not jail people for criticizing it...unlike, say, China.

No, you guys just invade other countries looking for imaginary weapons of mass deception. How many people died in Tianamen, vs how many Iraqis died attributable to the invasion.

We have problems, that's very true, but we're a damn sight better than China is on the human-rights front - and while I'll do all I can to advocate stopping shit like Guantanamo, trying to use that to claim that I should ignore China's far-worse behavior is utter bullshit.

Better at treating your own citizens, except if you are a black man armed with oh so fearsome weapon known as a wallet, Rodney King or some citizen targeted for assasination without trial.

I also notice you conveniently ignore what the US does in other countries. I guess they don't count right?

But we know this is a double standard here. You complain about the US human right violations but you never ever suggest that you should leave the country, yet alone embargo it. Why more revulsion when someone else does it? Oh they do it to their own population so its somehow worse, because you say so.

You know, the government that you detest so much has also lifted more people out of poverty in the last 30 years than any other single organisation. It's all very well for you to talk about democracy and freedom, but last I checked, you're not one of the people who has to consider the difficulty of forming a democratic government that is both representative and efficient for a country of 1.3 billion people. Nor are you one of the people who has to weigh the benefits of "more freedom for everyone" (whatever that means) against illiterate peasants getting plumbing three years earlier than they would if they had to live under an inefficient democratic regime.

Not to mention that they freed, how many Tibetan slaves serfs from the shit hole theocracy ruling them. But you never hear this from Free Tibet as apparently China should just give up 1/6 of its territory because because... ah fuck it.

In fact, I don't remember hearing this in any Western media outlet, even during the Tibetan riots. But then these are the same media outlets that couldn't tell the difference between Nepalese police and Chinese ones. Don't you know, all Asians look alike.

[mr friendly guy]

I knew Falun Gong believed superstitious crap the same as hundreds of others bullshit cults, with a tinge of racism, but celebrating the death of men,women and children in the Sichuan earthquake is really low.



But whatever. Beijing is TEH EVEL which mobilised the army and civillians to help and poured billions of yuan into reconstruction.

[PainRack]

I remember watching Chinese TV... there was this one show I loved, I forgot the name and I don't remember the time setting but it was about this girl in the Imperial court (the Emperor's adopted daughter I think?) and her group of friends and the only episode I remember was when the emperor gave her this golden medallion which entitled her to three requests that everyone, even the Emperor, had to obey. It had bright costumes, silly fun fight scenes, and pretty standard drama. That show was quite a few years ago though. When I was there last summer I remember seeing a detective drama, a recently-produced Warring States period martial arts movie, a revolution-period drama that involved a protagonist spy, and a soap opera. Oh, and the commercials, hilarious.

I remember a lot of revolution-period TV shows though, those are pretty standard fare, especially ones featuring or involving the 8th Route Army.

Huan Zhu Ge Ge. Its the main reason why everybody laughed at the segment in Forbidden Kingdom by Jackie Chan, when Fan Bing Bing started saying Xiao Yan Zi, Xiao Yan Zi(Little Swallow, Little swallow), where are you going next?

Huge irony considering the actress was Liu Yi Fei.

[PainRack]

This one ring any bells And no, I haven't watched it. Whistles innocently.

Glares suspiciously.

Seriously. I have NO idea why this drama is so popular with guys.

Their Wuxia shows still looks pretty neat, so the crap degeneration hasn't spread there so far. Yi Tian Tu Long Ji 2008 had high production values. The fight scene between Zhang Wuji, Zhou Zhiruo and the 3 Shaolin monks was awesome. Then we have the woman in yellow come and kick the traitorous Zhou Zhiruo butt in a fight scene. I love this genre.

Oh, Lusankya, are the television stations in China all government owned, or are there any private ones? If its all government owned, then the government would dictate whatever it wants to be shown.

There are...... advantages and disadvantages to their period drama though. The main bulk of their period dramas as opposed to outright wuxia suffers from poor production technicals, from lightning to even scripts at time. On the other hand, its China. Their geography advantage and etc is beyond anyone else including Hong Kong.

Now, if only Hong Kong will wake up from its recent blatent copying and Hongkonging of Western/Japanese dramas............

[Samuel]

Why aren't you doing everything in your power to leave the US?

As disgusting as what's happening to Bradley Manning is, to claim that China and the US are morally equivalent based on that is idiocy. In case you're too thick to realize this, the US government does not jail people for criticizing it...unlike, say, China.

No, you guys just invade other countries looking for imaginary weapons of mass deception. How many people died in Tianamen, vs how many Iraqis died attributable to the invasion.

I also notice you conveniently ignore what the US does in other countries. I guess they don't count right?

You don't want to go down that road. The US fucks up other countries and our allies have been awful, but China's would be North Korea.

[Lusankya]

I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say in your post there, Samuel.

China's entire interest in North Korea is ensuring that they don't have US troops stationed on their border, anyway.

[Samuel]

I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say in your post there, Samuel.

China's entire interest in North Korea is ensuring that they don't have US troops stationed on their border, anyway.

Claiming the US foreign policy kills people while comparing it to China's domestic policy ignores the people that die because of China's foreign policy. If you start going into US cold war crimes you get into Chinese ones and they are quite alot. The justifications are, as always, national interest.

Of course, currently China isn't doing anything like that so if you are comparing current foreign shit China does versus the US, they come out better. Come to think of it is there any major bad things China has done on the foreign policy front since the end of the cold war?

[K. A. Pital]

China's Cold War shenanigans weren't nice, but... they were at times allies with the US in the mess that was happening in SEA at the time. They even jointly sponsored the god damn Khmer Rouge.

[Enigma]

Hey Lus, I was wondering if you know the title of this Chinese movie based on my recollection posted on another thread.

..... there's a Chinese movie I saw years ago about two adult brothers living with their father, who runs a bath-house. One son wants to do something other than work in the bath-house while the other one is mentally handicapped but loves to sing except he only sings good when he's in the shower. Nevertheless, the father passes away and the non-handicapped son takes over his business.

I forgot the plot but it was a very good movie. All I remember in the end was that the MH son was able to sing in front of an audience because someone (I think his brother) setup a shower on stage.

The other brother ends up keeping his father's business.

You're thinking of Shower.

Thanks, Lus.

[mr friendly guy]

You don't want to go down that road. The US fucks up other countries and our allies have been awful, but China's would be North Korea.

Claiming the US foreign policy kills people while comparing it to China's domestic policy ignores the people that die because of China's foreign policy. If you start going into US cold war crimes you get into Chinese ones and they are quite alot. The justifications are, as always, national interest.

Of course, currently China isn't doing anything like that so if you are comparing current foreign shit China does versus the US, they come out better. Come to think of it is there any major bad things China has done on the foreign policy front since the end of the cold war?

Personally I am quite happy to simply compare for the last few years for the basic reasons administrations come and go even in Communist China, yet alone democratic America. However when people bring up the cultural revolution, and use phrases like "from the very beginning" then frankly that suggests they want to compare quite far back.

I must admit their current foreign policy is largely lets do business, and we won't criticise and by and large its more of a sin of omission than one of commission, unlike say the US foreign policy.

[Molyneux]

Because all crimes are equal, you betcha they are, and it's absolutely impossible to have varying degrees of anger against two different countries...even when one of those countries has the oppression of its own people built in right from the start! You sure set me straight there, fuckhead.

Yeah, right from the start. The US was founded by slavers, the epitome of opression, and remained a slavocracy for almost a century. Whoop de fuck, you shot your own argument in the foot.

Freely admitted; I fucked up there. Doesn't change the idiocy of the rest of your position.

Fuck your racism and fuck your supremacism; I don't give a shit what color or ethnicity the leadership of China is, I despise them because they oppress their own fucking people - on a far greater scale than America ever has

See above, you're an idiot.

Fuck you, dipshit. You called racism with no justification; if I'd included some kind of anti-Chinese slur, you might have something, but I expressed hatred for a country's ruling party.

It'd be nice if there were some kind of global police force that could remove oppressive regimes (without the attendant issues and stench of imperialism that surrounds America when it attempts that), but yeah, you have a good point. It's still maddening that we treat China like a reasonable trade partner when they're imprisoning their own people for political crimes.

Hey, idiot, you were trading with Pinochet whom you installed when he was imprisoning people for political crimes. You were trading with Mubarak, Ben Ali, you're trading with Saudi Arabia, you're trading with everyone and his dog who are imprisoning people for political crimes. You wouldn't be trading with most nations if you stopped trading with people who have political prisoners. Except, unlike China, many of the regimes you're trading with aren't even barely improving the life conditions for their citizens. Your staple client, Mubarak, who led his nation to ruin with rampant poverty and 90% youth unemployment, is just a recent example. So fuck you, hypocrite.

Because I made those decisions personally, of course.
I'm glad as hell that Mubarak's out of power; I'll agree that there is something to the idea of Western propaganda, if for no other reason than that no-one I know had any fucking idea he wasn't actually a democratically elected leader - it wasn't something that was ever covered in the news, it wasn't covered in history or social studies classes, and I never had a particularly pressing need to look up the governmental status of Egypt.

I wholeheartedly agree that we should kick Saudi Arabia to the curb; that doesn't let off China in the least.

Those are all horrible things, I'll freely admit. However, you seem to be skipping over the fact that it's fucking China we're talking about. You know? Mao Zedong? "Great Leap Forward"? Falun Gong? One-Child Policy? Communist Party? Zhang Zhixin? Hu Jia? That China?

Yeah, we're talking about the United States. Atlantic Slave trade, Uncle Tom's Cabin, lynchings, KKK, deportations of Japanese Americans, labour armies, thousands of poor migrants dead building canals in Louisiana and railways in the nation. That USA?

One important distinction between the two; hint, hint, one of those two countries stopped doing most of that shit upwards of forty years ago. One of them didn't, and it's the Asian one. Hu Jia and Liu Xiaobo are still in prison. Falun Gong members are still being arrested. Internet postings are still monitored and censored, and it's still common practice to torture confessions out of prisoners - or at least it was until last year, though the new anti-torture laws may be helping with that.

I love how you lump the one-child policy with Great Leap Foward. Another clear indication we're dealing with a clinical idiot. But sure, let's ignore demographic issues like overpopulation - that anti-condom, anti-birth control, "pro life" policy is sure helping India, Africa, Brazil... whoops, maybe not.

Forced abortions, sterilization...yeah, one-child policy sure is a barrel of laughs, ain't it?
Condoms are grand, and family planning is always a good thing to encourage. Too bad about those Chinese condoms... (I know the government doesn't have anything to do with that - other than fomenting a general atmosphere where counterfeiting is rampant - but it was too good to not link to.)

Oh, and as far as living in a country goes, the distinction between its human rights record with regard to its own citizenry as opposed to others goddamn well does matter.

Really? Why? You'd be happy to be a German in Nazi Germany? I see, I see, hypocrite racist shit. Opression only matters when it's done to Homo Superior. If your nation is only killing OTHERS, that's somehow morally superior to opression of your own citizens. Because... I don't know? How is a British citizen or American citizen worth more than an Iraqi or an Indian? They're not, they're all humans, except in the minds of supremacist idiots.

Take that strawman and shove it right up your ass. Would you rather live, given the choice, in a warlike and imperialist country that gave its own residents personal and political freedom, or a pacifist country that persecuted the fuck out of its own people? The United States, unlike China, doesn't jail or torture people for calling bullshit on its foreign policy.

Do you even know anything about the Falun Gong? I mean, aside from the pamphlets you get at their protests?

I know that they're crazy bastards, but fail to see how that has the slightest fucking bearing on anything. Christians are crazy bastards too.

Neither will you be jailed in China, but hey, don't let facts stand in the way of a good racist screed.

Oh, fucking really? I know some people who might disagree with you on that.

Putz. Oh, and get this through your thick skull before you bring that baseless bullshit around again: dislike of a country's government does not necessarily mean that I give a goddamn about the ethnicity of the people in that government, you blithering idiot. If you're going to call me racist, come up with some fucking justification first, or go away and let the intelligent people talk.

To make this absolutely clear: domestic policy does fucking affect whether I'd want to live in a country, more than foreign policy does, for the simple and obvious reason that domestic policy is what most affects the people living in the damn country.