Topical Libertarian Idea: Scrap the NWS!

[Simon_Jester]

See? A catch I hadn't thought of. No idea how to deal with that.

[quietly shelves idea]

[Vendetta]

But something like that- I'm not averse to amending the constitution to remove corporate personhood, if it makes malefactors of great wealth more responsible for their actions. At least, not at the moment- I wouldn't be surprised if there's a catch I hadn't thought of. Sigh.

It would make determining actual legal responsibility for any given failing all but impossible.

Which individual in BP would you name in a lawsuit over the gulf oil spill, and how do you prove that they have any legal responsibility for the spill? And if you were going to have multiple individuals responsible you have simply multiplied the cost of court proceedings against them many times over, as they all have their seperate legal defences.

Suing for corporate misbehaviour may at that point become impossible, as you have to sue not one entity but many seperate people, all of whom have vast resources to dedicate to their defence if, as suggested, the board of directors of the corporation are held as the responsible parties.

The more useful approach is to strip corporations of natural personhood, whilst keeping them as legal persons (that, after all, is actually the point of a corporation in the first place, that it can hold legal personhood) so that they can stand in court.

[BrooklynRedLeg]

It would make determining actual legal responsibility for any given failing all but impossible.

How so?

Which individual in BP would you name in a lawsuit over the gulf oil spill, and how do you prove that they have any legal responsibility for the spill? And if you were going to have multiple individuals responsible you have simply multiplied the cost of court proceedings against them many times over, as they all have their seperate legal defences.

The idea is that if each one of them could be held accountable, they might be more attentive. Its that whole Sword of Damocles thing.

Suing for corporate misbehaviour may at that point become impossible, as you have to sue not one entity but many seperate people, all of whom have vast resources to dedicate to their defence if, as suggested, the board of directors of the corporation are held as the responsible parties.

Its next to impossible now.

The more useful approach is to strip corporations of natural personhood, whilst keeping them as legal persons (that, after all, is actually the point of a corporation in the first place, that it can hold legal personhood) so that they can stand in court.

I don't like Corporate Personhood as sanctioned by the State....

[Vendetta]

The idea is that if each one of them could be held accountable, they might be more attentive. Its that whole Sword of Damocles thing.

Each one of whom? NAME an individual who could be held legally responsible for the gulf oil spill. Remember that you will have to demonstrate their actual personal culpability in a court of law.

I don't like Corporate Personhood as sanctioned by the State....

Whether you like things is irrelevant. Legal personhood is the point of a corporation. The whole concept of a corporation was created so that there could be an ongoing legal entity which was not reliant on any individual for its continuity.

[Simon_Jester]

What consequences would you look for from removing natural personhood?

[Vendetta]

What consequences would you look for from removing natural personhood?

The removal of the concept that corporations can engage in constitutionally protected speech, for one thing. That's probably the most damaging outcome of a corporation being treated as a natural person as it leads to direct corporate donations to politicians (and this is the only form of "speech" a corporation can engage in anyway, as everything else the corporate entity issues is already covered by things like advertising and financial regulations and therefore not protected anyway).

It would be better to create a specific category of "legal person" which defines entities like corporations as individuals for the specific set of purposes that it is necessary for them to act as such (single defendant/plaintiff in court, single taxpayer, etc), and specifically delineates the rights they are to be accorded (for instance, it is as necessary to accord rights of due process and unreasonable search and seizure to a corporate defendant as to an individual, because the mechanism of justice relies on them to operate), to prevent them creeping back towards the current state where they have grasped for first amendment protection so they can buy politicians more easily.