Steve Jobs Dead

[Tolya]

I remember that in 1997 the fucker went back to Apple and cut all the charity programs. And never actually donated himself. Thats my biggest grief with him. People like Bill Gates do share their personal wealth (donated over 28 billion dollars to various entities), but Jobs for some reason thought hoarding money he wouldnt be able to spend himself was a good idea.

[weemadando]

What's shitting me are the people canonising him for all his amazing work - it's not like he built the iPod from scratch himself. How many engineers, designers and others were in that process and no doubt had far more to do with it than Mr Jobs?

Calling him "our Da Vinci" makes me want to nut shot folks.

Dude, nobody makes electronics "on his/her own" anymore. What would you expect? "A pioneer Jobs spent all his childhood in a wooden shack operating steam powered equipment as he assembled the first iPod" type of story? Those days are past us, that's XIX century stuff.

Let's be honest: iPod isn't a goddamn invention. Mp3 players existed well before them. It isn't particularly well streamlined too, the iTunes is possibly the most shitty way of transferring music to a bloody flash memory storage (you can simply copy the files on most other players, but on iPods you have to manually rebuild the list for the fucker to work - which is a pain in the ass in my wife's Shuffle). There are Mp3 players that are cheaper and better than iPods, but for some reason they aren't nearly as popular. It's like bitching about iPhone 1 crappines in relation to other smartphones of the era.

iPods were about design and marketing. They were sold as a "way of life". If it was only the assorted bunch of engineers and technicians who created iPod, then any company could do it. But it was Jobs' company which did it.

Im not defending him, he had his faults, But blaming him that he "didnt invent iPod himself"... c'mon wee, be more creative.

I'm not trying to be creative. Have you looked at how the fucking media and people are reacting to this? That's what I'm addressing.

They're acting as though Jobs was this superbeing who created everything Apple with his own two hands and lovingly delivered it unto the masses like loaves and fish.

[ComradeClaus]

I felt he wouldn't last much longer, but didn't expect it to be so soon.

Do you think the AIDS rumors are true?

Encyclopediadramatica thought so, months in advance.

As for my feelings, I have to confess a soft spot for apple/mac computers, they always worked fairly well for me. (so many hours on the oregon trail) plus the lack of virus' gave me thousands of hours of worry-free web browsing. Though the G3 mouse sucked epically.

Not sure of my feeling on the sweat shops. he wasn't the only ceo guilty of slave labor. plus he kept gates from having a total computer monopoly.

[Meest]

I'm not trying to be creative. Have you looked at how the fucking media and people are reacting to this? That's what I'm addressing.

They're acting as though Jobs was this superbeing who created everything Apple with his own two hands and lovingly delivered it unto the masses like loaves and fish.

Going to add that I now dislike Jobs just because of what he turned this cycle of news reporting into. Gem from Morning Joe "Every time my 2 year old gets into a cab with me he keeps trying to touch the backseat TV screens and wants to control the flow of information..." and "he revolutionized how we educate our kids". This stuff just makes it unbearable, did these people not use computers before? They make it sound like grandparents never emailed their kids until Apple made it easy, guess growing up in a computer/tech savvy home gives me a different perspective.

[Todeswind]

Meanwhile, Wikileaks makes itself look like a giant prick by drawing everyone's attention to proported Steve Jobs medical records alledging he was HIV positive.

Is Wikileaks seriously saying that having HIV would have made him a bad person? Or that keeping his medical records of exactly what is killing him out of the public eye is unjust somehow?

Because either way it seems to speak little poorly about him and volumes about them.

Edit: Seriously what the fuck? How does publishing his medical records "promote free speech?"

[ChaserGrey]

I felt he wouldn't last much longer, but didn't expect it to be so soon.

Do you think the AIDS rumors are true?

Encyclopediadramatica thought so, months in advance.

You're quoting Encyclopedia Dramatica as a source of anything?

To quote Ian Malcolm, the unfiltered version from the original Jurassic Park- "You're an even bigger fool than I thought you were. And I thought you were a very substantial fool."

[ChaserGrey]

Is Wikileaks seriously saying that having HIV would have made him a bad person? Or that keeping his medical records of exactly what is killing him out of the public eye is unjust somehow?

Because either way it seems to speak little poorly about him and volumes about them.

Wikileaks is saying what they always say: "Look at me! Pay attention to me, I'm important!" Everything else has always been secondary to that message, methinks.

[phongn]

What's shitting me are the people canonising him for all his amazing work - it's not like he built the iPod from scratch himself. How many engineers, designers and others were in that process and no doubt had far more to do with it than Mr Jobs?

Without him it's unlikely that anything like the iPod would actually get built - that product offered (at the time) a superior user experience and interface compared to any other product, and then later added complete integration with iTunes Music Stores.

Yes, he has tight teams of engineers and designers working for him - contributions he often acknowledged. It took his leadership to actually come up and execute the ideas. Engineering and design teams alone cannot do it (and Apple from 1985-1996 should be proof of that).

[Col. Crackpot]

What's shitting me are the people canonising him for all his amazing work - it's not like he built the iPod from scratch himself. How many engineers, designers and others were in that process and no doubt had far more to do with it than Mr Jobs?

Calling him "our Da Vinci" makes me want to nut shot folks.

While you are correct that he did not build the iPad from scratch. However he adnd Steve Wozniak did build computers from scratch in their basement to found the company. Also,there is a clear distinction in innovation and profitability in Apple with and without Steve Jobs. Yes they have hundreds if not thousands of engineers. But they had lots of talented engineers between 1985 and 1997 and Apple was hardly an innovator during those days.
sure, maybe he's a tightwad douche. But he's a fucking brilliant tightwad douche!

[Uraniun235]

I'm goin' to hell but I don't care, this made me laugh.


Also, since I'm already on the road to perdition, maybe Steve is a good example of the potential harm of 'alternative medicine':

Jobs' tumor was discovered in October 2003. He had been getting abdominal scans periodically because of a history of intestinal problems. His doctors noticed a growth that turned out to be an islet cell neuroendocrine tumor - a rare and operable form of pancreatic cancer. With surgery, his long-term prognosis would be good.

But Jobs sought instead to treat his tumor with a special diet while launching a lengthy exploration of alternative approaches. "It's safe to say he was hoping to find a solution that would avoid surgery," says one person familiar with the situation. "I don't know if he truly believed that was possible. The odd thing is, for us what seemed like an alternative type of thing, for him is normal. It's not out of the ordinary for Steve."

[PainRack]

While I WOULD agree that alternative medicine kills bit... I think the article is a bit too lax on the actual risks and complications of the surgery itself.

http://www.surgery.usc.edu/divisions/tu ... ation.html

The Whipple operation was first described in the 1930’s by Allan Whipple. In the 1960’s and 1970’s the mortality rate for the Whipple operation was very high. Up to 25% of patients died from the surgery. This experience of the 1970’s is still remembered by some physicians who are reluctant to recommend the Whipple operation.

Today the Whipple operation has become an extremely safe operation in the USA. At tertiary care centers where a large numbers of these procedures are performed by a selected few surgeons, the mortality rate from the operation is less than 4%.

In those that hospitals that perform high volume of these procedures the death rate from the Whipple operation is now less than 5%. In hospitals that infrequently perform the Whipple operation a much higher complication rate and the death rate from the surgery often greater than 15 to 20% has been reported in surgical literature.

Now, of course, since Steve Jobs is STEVE jobs, this isn't going to be a problem for him. But it is a major operation with huge risks and its sorta condescending to just claim" Oh, you're such a fool for not going for it."

More importantly, Steve Jobs did go for the operation and his survival rate is well within the documentated timeframe.You might say he got lucky, twice!, but looking at this from a layman point of view, its hard to say that Steve Jobs was harmed by alternative medicine.

[Magis]

I remember that in 1997 the fucker went back to Apple and cut all the charity programs.

And he was right to do so. Apple's revenue wasn't his to do with as he pleased; it belonged to shareholders. And Jobs had a duty to care for their money responsibly as CEO. If the shareholders want to donate to charity, they can do so individually with whatever dividends are distributed to them (which in this case was zero.)

And never actually donated himself.

You mean he never publicly announced any donations. However much he donated anonymously cannot be known.

[Chirios]

Requiescat in pace Mr Jobs. You changed the electronics industry forever.

[Meest]

While I WOULD agree that alternative medicine kills bit... I think the article is a bit too lax on the actual risks and complications of the surgery itself.

Now, of course, since Steve Jobs is STEVE jobs, this isn't going to be a problem for him. But it is a major operation with huge risks and its sorta condescending to just claim" Oh, you're such a fool for not going for it."

More importantly, Steve Jobs did go for the operation and his survival rate is well within the documentated timeframe.You might say he got lucky, twice!, but looking at this from a layman point of view, its hard to say that Steve Jobs was harmed by alternative medicine.

The problem with that is why did he need the liver? Did chemo ruin it and if so if he started with proper care at the onset he might not have needed extra treatment and someone would have a nice new liver. If he was stage 4 why is he getting a new liver is that a normal practice?

[Tolya]

I'm not trying to be creative. Have you looked at how the fucking media and people are reacting to this? That's what I'm addressing.

They're acting as though Jobs was this superbeing who created everything Apple with his own two hands and lovingly delivered it unto the masses like loaves and fish.

I thought you were addressing this thread specifically.

I do actually agree with you. Media have gone batshit crazy. But that's what media do - its like the collective mouth of the people. I actually sent an email to our Polish radio information station when they were talking about Jobs not to martyr him and it got read on air, so there still are some journalists that agree on that.

[Executor32]

Westboro are going to picket his funeral. They're also hypocrites, who knew?

Westboro will picket his funeral.He had a huge platform; gave God no glory & taught sin. MT @AP: Apple co-founder Steve Jobs has died at 56.
18 hours ago via Twitter for iPhone

[Zaune]

So we'll either get to see hardcore Apple fanboys beating the everloving crap out of Westboro Baptist Church members, or Westboro Baptist Church members beating the everloving crap out of hardcore Apple fanboys.

Win/win situation if you ask me.

[Tolya]

And he was right to do so. Apple's revenue wasn't his to do with as he pleased; it belonged to shareholders. And Jobs had a duty to care for their money responsibly as CEO. If the shareholders want to donate to charity, they can do so individually with whatever dividends are distributed to them (which in this case was zero.)

You are wrong. There is this thing called Corporate Social Responsibility. Also, in 1997 Apple was in really bad shape. In 1998 the iMac hit the shelves and sold about 1 million units in about six months or so. Jobs quickly restored profitability, but the charity programs were never restored.

Of course he didn't have an obligation to donate to charity from his own pocket, but for a guy whose personal wealth was valued at about 5 billion dollars he sure liked to keep it to himself. He had every right to keep it to himself, but when you have more money than you can reasonably spend, then you are tagging yourself as a selfish asshole. Not all charity is just giving junkies pot money, just look at Bill & Melinda Gates foundation.

Go read Destructionator's posts, I don't want to repeat what was already said.

You mean he never publicly announced any donations. However much he donated anonymously cannot be known.

Do you believe in God? Because that is the same type of logic. Burden of proof my friend, burden of proof.

[Luke Skywalker]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KscYtJH988E

[Crateria]

So we'll either get to see hardcore Apple fanboys beating the everloving crap out of Westboro Baptist Church members, or Westboro Baptist Church members beating the everloving crap out of hardcore Apple fanboys.

Win/win situation if you ask me.

Whoever wins... we lose.

Although I think Jobs is a greedy asshole, at least his products are of some use to me. The WBC? I guess they show us the true evils of domestic religious bigots, but otherwise contribute nothing.

[Thinktank]

For those venting their nerd-spleen of their nerd-rage, a bit of wisdom:
"What you say of the dead, says more about you than the departed."

Seriously folks. The man is dead, have some fucking class.

Now as for the media's hyperbolic antics...

[Ace Pace]

For those venting their nerd-spleen of their nerd-rage, a bit of wisdom:
"What you say of the dead, says more about you than the departed."

Seriously folks. The man is dead, have some fucking class.

Now as for the media's hyperbolic antics...

How does thinking and discussing what a man has done in his life reflect badly on a person? If you're completely negative, or completely positive, makes no difference. It's lack of critical thinking either way.

[Flagg]

For those venting their nerd-spleen of their nerd-rage, a bit of wisdom:
"What you say of the dead, says more about you than the departed."

Seriously folks. The man is dead, have some fucking class.

Now as for the media's hyperbolic antics...

Please provide evidence that venerating a horrible person is "classy".

[Masami von Weizegger]

For those venting their nerd-spleen of their nerd-rage, a bit of wisdom:
"What you say of the dead, says more about you than the departed."

Seriously folks. The man is dead, have some fucking class.

Now as for the media's hyperbolic antics...

I'm sorry, but shit you find in your mother's e-mail signature doesn't mean anything.

Look, I'm sorry Steve Jobs is dead. Pancreatic cancer is a fucking horrible way to go. But I'm not sure why it's "classy" not to criticise the guy at all. Hey, I'm not going to turn up to his funeral and start on this stuff (unlike the WBC cunts), but someone needs to point out that Jobs was not some 21st century technological messiah from the heavens. He was a prick who made a lot of money as the centre of a giant multinational corporation.

These hyperbolic antics aren't only coming from the media. There are flowers being left outside Apple stores, iPads with candles left outside, memorials on the streets. This mindless worshipping of the King of Vapid Consumerism is appalling to me and a symptom of something deeper than one man's death. This isn't just the media playing things up on a slow news day.

Mindless negativity is bad, but so is mindless +1 eulogising of a flawed businessman with an eye for stylistic choices.

[Terralthra]

For those venting their nerd-spleen of their nerd-rage, a bit of wisdom:
"What you say of the dead, says more about you than the departed."

Seriously folks. The man is dead, have some fucking class.

Now as for the media's hyperbolic antics...

"To the living we owe respect, but to the dead we owe only the truth." - Voltaire