The plight of the pangolin - Being hunted to extinction

[krakonfour]

Have there even been long-term, properly scientific comparisons of homeopathic and gipsy magic medicine and modern medicine? You know, a report I could bash someone with if they start putting 'natural', 'ecologic' and 'chakra point' in their sentences?

[Covenant]

Have there even been long-term, properly scientific comparisons of homeopathic and gipsy magic medicine and modern medicine? You know, a report I could bash someone with if they start putting 'natural', 'ecologic' and 'chakra point' in their sentences?

Yeah, but it wouldn't matter. It's been tested repeatedly and it's quack science, but the people who really believe it are nuts. For some simple stuff just do some google searches. Unforunately so much money is in it that they often get biased or useless research to support them. Anyway, check out RationalWiki for some generic links and info:
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Evidence_for_homeopathy

What's more effective is to show people who think "homeopathic" remedies are real medicine exactly how it is prepared and done. They're usually surprised because "homeopathic" sounds like "home remedy" which sounds like "time worn simple solution" and a viable alternative to a pill. One pill of homeopathic stuff vs one pill of normal stuff? Seems legit. Until you learn what it is. Then they go "what, really?" and will be amazed.

Also, people who take this stuff usually do it for aches and pains, not for like... I don't know... diabetes. Not something you can easily measure versus "Do you feel better?" Going to a Homeopath, having someone listen to you and care about you and validate what you feel, that can mean a lot. It's not medicine but knowing someone gives a shit can help. Homeopaths may be giving placebos or worse, but just removing someone's tension or fixation about their own body helps. A lot of people who suffer from minor ailments get "worse" because it's partially a cry for care that gets ignored. Homeopaths usually don't ignore you.

Pain Rack is right about what he was saying too. I was misunderstanding him, and he's right, a lot of this is driven by money. I did say that above too! My first post said "isn't there anything so cute or rare that it can't be eaten for status?" and not just about the medical stuff, but we talked past each other and I did fixate on the medical crap. You're very right.

[krakonfour]

Homeo-paths.
Somehow that just sounds right.

[Grumman]

James Randi's method of disproving homeopathy seems like it would be effective: get the sucker to buy a box of homeopathic sleeping pills (so that they know you didn't tamper with it), and eat the whole box in front of them. Seeing that such a massive overdose doesn't even make you drowsy might knock some sense into them.

Then again, by homeopathic logic eating the whole box probably means it becomes less effective.

[salm]

Have there even been long-term, properly scientific comparisons of homeopathic and gipsy magic medicine and modern medicine? You know, a report I could bash someone with if they start putting 'natural', 'ecologic' and 'chakra point' in their sentences?

Depends on what you define as magic medicine. Accupuncture has been thoroughly tested and proven to be usefull for some types of pain relief. More useuful than pharmaceutical precedures in some cases. Helping to reduce the amount of swallowed pills in other cases.
There is apparently some nonesense in the traditional Chinese accupuncture. For example according traditional Chinese accupuncure it´s necessary to put the needles into specific spots of the body. This was shown to be wrong. Random spots are just as good. But the basic idea, that sticking needles into people relieves pain appears to be correct.

GERAC

[Kitsune]

Have there even been long-term, properly scientific comparisons of homeopathic and gipsy magic medicine and modern medicine? You know, a report I could bash someone with if they start putting 'natural', 'ecologic' and 'chakra point' in their sentences?

Depends on what you define as magic medicine. Accupuncture has been thoroughly tested and proven to be usefull for some types of pain relief. More useuful than pharmaceutical precedures in some cases. Helping to reduce the amount of swallowed pills in other cases.
There is apparently some nonesense in the traditional Chinese accupuncture. For example according traditional Chinese accupuncure it´s necessary to put the needles into specific spots of the body. This was shown to be wrong. Random spots are just as good. But the basic idea, that sticking needles into people relieves pain appears to be correct.

GERAC

SBM on accupuncture
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/acu ... esnt-work/

[salm]

Interesting read.

[krakonfour]

James Randi's method of disproving homeopathy seems like it would be effective: get the sucker to buy a box of homeopathic sleeping pills (so that they know you didn't tamper with it), and eat the whole box in front of them. Seeing that such a massive overdose doesn't even make you drowsy might knock some sense into them.

Then again, by homeopathic logic eating the whole box probably means it becomes less effective.

Do you mean, by homeo-pathic logic, taking a hundred pills has no effect, but taking a single pill would have a powerful effect because the doses are conveniently too small to be tested scientifically? Genius.

As for acupuncture... it's all about the incense, the massage, the lying down for an hour that removes the stress. Worrying about needles in your skin and finding out that they are harmless is good stress relief too. Try repeating the procedure in a clinical, sterilized setting.

[Kitsune]

As for acupuncture... it's all about the incense, the massage, the lying down for an hour that removes the stress. Worrying about needles in your skin and finding out that they are harmless is good stress relief too. Try repeating the procedure in a clinical, sterilized setting.

While relatively low risk, there is often problems with improper sterilization. Wouldn't just skipping the needles but keep everything else - incense, massage, and laying down for an hour or so be far better?

Sizable number were put at risk here:
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/wor ... ests_x.htm

[madd0ct0r]

state of the art research on acupuncture and any mechanisims it may work by - try edward ernst
http://edzardernst.com/