SECNAV Announces Virginia class submarines for women

[Kitsune]

The US Military makes birth control(various female forms and condoms/vasectomies for men) freely available. It does everything it can without actually mandating it.

I think a bonus as an incentive for the IUD might be a good idea

[Lonestar]

Girlfriend works in a OBGYN office, and she says you would have be crazy to use a IUD. She reads too many patient reports about them getting loose and the patient feeling it moving around. So who knows how popular that would be.

But yeah, something like "IUD or Depo" would be smart

[AniThyng]

If someone is on the pill, is the assumption that they are having premarital sex? Wasn't there a whole kerfluffle last year about Rush Limbaugh calling a woman a whore because she was using the pill for reasons other than premarital sex?

Well I just found it odd that catholic servicepersons who would be willing to have premarital sex, which their religion considers a sin, would object to mandatory birth control on the same religious grounds.

[Lonestar]

The point is, you wouldn't be able to make the pill effective unless you mandated everyone take it, and Catholics won't do it. No one is going to go "oh, you pinky promise you're a good catholic and aren't going to engage in premarital sex? okay you don't have to take the pill".

[Kitsune]

The point is, you wouldn't be able to make the pill effective unless you mandated everyone take it, and Catholics won't do it. No one is going to go "oh, you pinky promise you're a good catholic and aren't going to engage in premarital sex? okay you don't have to take the pill".

With sex, you saw that a while back with the purity ring BS

[Forgothrax]

Girlfriend works in a OBGYN office, and she says you would have be crazy to use a IUD. She reads too many patient reports about them getting loose and the patient feeling it moving around. So who knows how popular that would be.

But yeah, something like "IUD or Depo" would be smart

The statistical expulsion rate is 3%, so... not really the case. They're not perfect, nothing is, but they are effective for the vast majority of people with few complications.

[Simon_Jester]

If someone is on the pill, is the assumption that they are having premarital sex? Wasn't there a whole kerfluffle last year about Rush Limbaugh calling a woman a whore because she was using the pill for reasons other than premarital sex?

Well I just found it odd that catholic servicepersons who would be willing to have premarital sex, which their religion considers a sin, would object to mandatory birth control on the same religious grounds.

Maybe they think premarital sex is less bad than killing babies, and think contraception kills babies?

[Kitsune]

If someone is on the pill, is the assumption that they are having premarital sex? Wasn't there a whole kerfluffle last year about Rush Limbaugh calling a woman a whore because she was using the pill for reasons other than premarital sex?

Well I just found it odd that catholic servicepersons who would be willing to have premarital sex, which their religion considers a sin, would object to mandatory birth control on the same religious grounds.

Maybe they think premarital sex is less bad than killing babies, and think contraception kills babies?

I assume that if a person wanting to join the military has a religious belief of refusing medical services, they would not be allowed to join.

[Lolpah]

I assume that if a person wanting to join the military has a religious belief of refusing medical services, they would not be allowed to join.

You must take practical considerations into account. I assume there are so many Catholics and members of other religious groups in the USA which consider contraception evil that excluding all of them wouldn't really work. Also considering contraception is just a small portion of the medical services the military offers, the situation is entirely different from one or two people refusing all medicla care due to being part of an obscure cult etc.

[Thanas]

Why wouldn't it work? Last time I checked sub posts were not that many.

[Borgholio]

How much time do you think submarines spend submerged? Hint: It's not a lot. It's not an efficient or fast way to travel.

Maybe in 1943, sure. But since the advent of the Albacore-type hull, submarines actually travel faster underwater. The Los Angeles Class can only hit about 20k surfaced, but they can go nearly double that submerged. The limit of endurance on a submarine is food supplies, not fuel.

Also given that submarines are easily visible on the surface and nearly undetectable underwater when running silent, it's rather stupid for them to stay on the surface any longer than needed to go in / out of port.

[Kitsune]

Why wouldn't it work? Last time I checked sub posts were not that many.

You are female and want sub duty, you need to be on birth control. Not far, yes, I am sorry but do not know how else to deal with it.

Maybe in 1943, sure. But since the advent of the Albacore-type hull, submarines actually travel faster underwater. The Los Angeles Class can only hit about 20k surfaced, but they can go nearly double that submerged. The limit of endurance on a submarine is food supplies, not fuel.

Not quite. . .20 knots surfaced and 30 knots submerged

[Borgholio]

Not quite. . .20 knots surfaced and 30 knots submerged

Really? I thought it was at least 35 submerged.

[Kitsune]

Not quite. . .20 knots surfaced and 30 knots submerged

Really? I thought it was at least 35 submerged.

Seawolf is suppose to be able to do something like that
Might be where the confusion comes from

[Lolpah]

Why wouldn't it work? Last time I checked sub posts were not that many.

He was talking about "joining the army" in general in that particular post. I agree that compulsory contraception is probaly a good idea with submarine crews.

[Borgholio]

Seawolf is suppose to be able to do something like that
Might be where the confusion comes from

Thought Seawolf could do 40?

Then again, the Navy would never just say how fast it is...I'm mainly looking at the "expert opinions". So perhaps the experts are over-estimating a bit.

[Lord Revan]

I suppose the true speed of those ships is officially classified the same way the locations of the finnish shore defense batteries is officially classified, but in practice everyone knows it anyway.

[Borgholio]

Yeah I've always taken issue with how the Navy says that the most advanced submarines they have can only dive 1/4 as deep as their Soviet counterparts.

[Simon_Jester]

If they present an obvious, "you have got to be kidding me," piece of misinformation, and refuse to confirm or deny any figures that might put an upper bound on the sub's performance... I see it this way.

Sure, it seems likely that the Russians or Chinese would have already found the sub's performance limits for themselves. But the Russians and Chinese can never be sure they've seen everything the sub is capable of, or that they're not being fed disinformation by their agent(s). Which uncertainty might itself save some US ship from getting torpedoed, or cause an enemy to be torpedoed, in the event of a war.

[Thanas]

I am pretty sure that the Russian and Chinese Navies have a good picture what ships of that hullform etc. could do. Similar things have happened in the past. For example, just using naval knowledge, common sense and public info Stuart Slade was able to estimate the max speed of the nuclear carriers of the United States Navy. Turns out, he was right to the exact number of knots. See here.

IMO Navies with much more resources to spend on this could easily do the same for the subs, if only by building small scale models and extrapolating from there.

[Simon_Jester]

This might work for speed (I do not know enough about maritime engineering to be sure). I'm pretty sure it wouldn't work for determining the crush depth of the submarine, which is if anything more important information. You couldn't deduce that without knowing detailed information about the internal structure of the sub.

[Kitsune]

Death Noises of USS Scorpion were suppose to be around 600 meters and she was not made SUBSAFE

[Thanas]

This might work for speed (I do not know enough about maritime engineering to be sure). I'm pretty sure it wouldn't work for determining the crush depth of the submarine, which is if anything more important information. You couldn't deduce that without knowing detailed information about the internal structure of the sub.

You need to know the materials used which is probably a good way to get an upper limit. It is not like you need to know the exact crush depth, you just need to know the maximum possible crush depth to develop weapons reaching that depth.

[Batman]

Wasn't that how the russians got the US to develop torpedoes that could attack subs at a depth of 900 metres, that allegedly being the service diving depth of the Alfas, when the only sub they had that could actually go that deep at all was one lonely Mike?

[Thanas]

Wasn't that how the russians got the US to develop torpedoes that could attack subs at a depth of 900 metres, that allegedly being the service diving depth of the Alfas, when the only sub they had that could actually go that deep at all was one lonely Mike?

I think the Russians did a good work of spreading rumours. But didn't they manage to get an Alfa down there once?