Incumbents lose, fallout ensues

[Ralin]

Do you think everyone has the same access to the Internet and free time to do it? Has the same instinctive mindset to immediately look up candidates online? Is able to find sufficient information (everything google finds now is either related to this news story or is his own website. remember, local candidates with no active political history don't necessarily have a strong web presences)?

No, but I do think that if they don't have those things they should do the right thing and not vote, and I feel perfectly comfortable mocking them when they vote anyway and it blows up in their racist faces.

[Akhlut]

Do you think everyone has the same access to the Internet and free time to do it? Has the same instinctive mindset to immediately look up candidates online? Is able to find sufficient information (everything google finds now is either related to this news story or is his own website. remember, local candidates with no active political history don't necessarily have a strong web presences)?

<br sab="709"><br sab="710">No, but I do think that if they don't have those things they should do the right thing and not vote, and I feel perfectly comfortable mocking them when they vote anyway and it blows up in their racist faces.

It's not like the candidate engaged in an active disinformation campaign or anything and was, essentially, lying to the public and taking active glee in his constituents being swindled by him. :v

And being black in America is often an experience in second-hand citizenship. While I'm white, my cousins are black, and have often been pulled over for driving-while-black, had mall security hover over them for no reason other than being black, and otherwise had undue hardships simply because they're black. So, yeah, many black people prefer to vote for black candidates because those candidates understand the hardships associated with being a minority. And, while I might be going on a limb here, I'm going to guess that the guy who misrepresented himself, lied to his constituents, and took glee in his hoodwinking is probably not going to be especially sympathetic to the plight minorities face in the United States.

[AniThyng]

Yeah but the incumbent was also black so perhaps he wasn't doing so hot a job either

[Akhlut]

And? I just think it's bullshit that Ralin is basically going "lol, racist uppity blacks get their comeuppance" without examining the sociological reasons why minorities tend to vote for minorities and why a guy doing his damnedest to misrepresent himself and taking glee in duping the people who voted for him is probably not going to be a good candidate, especially for minorities.

[Ralin]

And? I just think it's bullshit that Ralin is basically going "lol, racist uppity blacks get their comeuppance" without examining the sociological reasons why minorities tend to vote for minorities and why a guy doing his damnedest to misrepresent himself and taking glee in duping the people who voted for him is probably not going to be a good candidate, especially for minorities.

Oh please, I'd react the exact same way if white voters started crying howl because they didn't know the candidate they voted for was black. I don't give a damn for the sociological reasons behind it. I'm sure everyone in the Klan had plenty of factors beyond their control pushing them to join too. Racism is racism.

[Akhlut]

And? I just think it's bullshit that Ralin is basically going "lol, racist uppity blacks get their comeuppance" without examining the sociological reasons why minorities tend to vote for minorities and why a guy doing his damnedest to misrepresent himself and taking glee in duping the people who voted for him is probably not going to be a good candidate, especially for minorities.

Oh please, I'd react the exact same way if white voters started crying howl because they didn't know the candidate they voted for was black. I don't give a damn for the sociological reasons behind it. I'm sure everyone in the Klan had plenty of factors beyond their control pushing them to join too. Racism is racism.

Nice equivocation, spoken like a truly privileged shithead who has never been inconvenienced by his intrinsic qualities. The KKK formed due to the toppling of the white supremacist power structure of the Slave Power and, subsequently, to maintain post-Reconstruction white supremacy. Minorities vote for minorities in order to better protect themselves against white supremacists, either those who are explicit or implicit in their supremacy, as well as to try and dismantle the structural racism present in the modern American democracy.

But, again, "lol, uppity niggers get their due" is all I'm getting from you.

[Ralin]

You're seriously trying to argue that racists shouldn't be mocked at SD.net?

Have fun with that!

[Grandmaster Jogurt]

If you think white Americans do or even can face meaningful racism from black Americans, and especially that it's anything remotely similar to the racism experienced by black Americans, then you're the racist who needs to be mocked.

"I don't give a damn about the sociological reasons behind it." You even admit you are reveling in your own ignorance. Do you think this is at all admirable?

[Ralin]

If you think white Americans do or even can face meaningful racism from black Americans, and especially that it's anything remotely similar to the racism experienced by black Americans, then you're the racist who needs to be mocked.

No, see, racism is thinking that people should be treated differently because of their race. These people are angry because they accidently vote for someone with the wrong skin color. See how that makes them racists?

"I don't give a damn about the sociological reasons behind it." You even admit you are reveling in your own ignorance. Do you think this is at all admirable?

No, I'm just not accepting it as an excuse for open racism. Anymore than I do with white people in the South.

[Grandmaster Jogurt]

Do you not understand that racism is a sociological issue? If you ignore the sociology you literally cannot have any understanding of what happens?

It's like saying you don't care about the biological reasons behind hunger or the physical reasons behind ballistics!

I'm not sure you're even willing to engage on this issue, but look at this. Why does racism matter? It's because it causes negative affects, often dramatic and long-lasting. So what racism should we care about? Stuff that actually causes real issues. So racial discrimination that has no power behind it and thus cannot cause these consequences is not relevant. Black people preferentially working with people who will understand their issues and be more likely to not fuck up their lives due to racism isn't racism in literally any meaningful sense. White people making fun of black people's solidarity backed by centuries of stereotyping of black people as both irrational and stupid as well as all alike in a society where almost all of the power is in white hands and will continue that way for some time, however, is!

[Akhlut]

You're seriously trying to argue that racists shouldn't be mocked at SD.net?

Have fun with that!

It's like you have absolutely no understanding of context in the least and that what the black people were doing is not really racist in a meaningful manner ("let's elect someone who will understand our plight and do things to counteract it" as the douchebag candidate relayed in his campaign material), whereas the Klan prior to, about the 1970s, a group that had a relatively large popular backing among white people and was explicitly trying to maintain a system of apartheid in the United States.

You might try reading some sociological texts and improve yourself, but I'm going to guess you're going to revel in your ignorance like Chris Brown revels in his misogyny.

[Patroklos]

Recognizing that there is sociological context is irrelevant to refuting that they are voting via racism. It might explain a particular instance of racism enough to make it acceptable to some and apparently you, but it does not make it NOT racism.

I understand why they might prefer to vote for a black man, I also reject that as a rational way to decide who to vote for.

[Grandmaster Jogurt]

I wonder if you recognise that the privileged oppressor's viewpoint is seen as the unbiased and rational one while everyone else is defective for having perspectives that come from their different experiences.

Or if you're willing to even try to think about that.

[Irbis]

I expect everyone here who complains about redistricting by republicans to condemn this act by the Democrat controlled city council to keep their party in control.

This is excessive, yes, but given given know Republitards willingness to cooperate (translation for Fox News repeaters: city council's unwillingness to be vetoed on every single step) and the fact they work within the system, I'd say it was to be expected in current US political climate and probably the only way to keep the city working in sane matter.

He let people see what they wanted to see

And this guy should be booted out, by recount if needed, immediately. Base liars (gloating ones, to boot) have no place at being political decidents, and maybe it would have taught a few of his buddies a lesson.

I am not sure if you even thought your examples through, it's obvious you went for Democrat = Republican = Bad, but if all you can dredge up next to vile liar is one city council trying to keep things going, well, these things don't seem to be so equal after all

What democrats did highlights problems with the system, what the guy did highlights the problems with the man (and his party) sanity.

You're seriously trying to argue that racists shouldn't be mocked at SD.net?

Okay, Einstein, answer one question first - given two equally skilled candidates, one of your skin color, one of different, which one are you going to pick? Oh, wait, it's racism only when minorities do it, when privileged imbecile does it's just "informed choice" despite being racist according to his own stupid definition, too

No, see, racism is thinking that people should be treated differently because of their race. These people are angry because they accidently vote for someone with the wrong skin color.

Or maybe, just maybe, they are angry because they were lied to? Did that thought even occurred to you?

Let me guess, if a pedophile lied in election he is not one, would you also smugly lay the blame on the bigot anti-pedophile voters while guy gloats how he duped them?

[Patroklos]

I wonder if you recognise that the privileged oppressor's viewpoint is seen as the unbiased and rational one while everyone else is defective for having perspectives that come from their different experiences.

Or if you're willing to even try to think about that.

Empathy /= acceptance or agreement.

Racism is never an acceptable viewpoint I will agree with regardless of whether I sympathize with or demonize the circumstances that brought you got to that viewpoint.

[Grandmaster Jogurt]

How is it "racism" to look at the reality of the fact that almost no white people in America understand what actual racial oppression is like and so wanting to have someone who does represent you in a society that needs significant active and constant pressure in order to even possibly improve?

[Patroklos]

There are literally hundreds of things about any single individual regardless of race that I don't have any experiance or understanding of. I am not a women, women are not men. I am not a first responder throwing myself into harms way, some people are. I am in the military, many are not. I have a family member with special needs, most people do not. Maybe I understand some of these even if I haven't experianced them as this is not impossible to do, but regardless most of us will have to represent people we do not fully understand at some point in our lives.

Again, you might approve of this particular bit of racism as it serves whatever purpose you want, but by definition making a blanket assumption about white people bases on their skin color IS racism.

And your idea that no white people understand black people AND that all black understand all other black people (and apparently all white people somehow) is patently absurd.

[Akhlut]

I didn't know that first responders have lived as a racial underclass for 500 years. Huh, learn something new everyday.

Plus, the voters aren't making blanket assumptions, they are deducing that a liar is a poor representative for them. After all, many black people have voted for white people, from Reconstruction Republicans to LBJ to Bill Clinton. However, there is a preference for black candidates sure to their shared experience and general record of ring to eliminate white privilege.

[Grandmaster Jogurt]

Part of being oppressed is being force to understand the life of the oppressed as well as the life of the oppressor because the latter is treated as the default, the good, and shown and demanded everywhere.

Look at how common it is for black people to be fluent in both AAVE and standard American English, and how this has been common for centuries, whereas white people know the latter and usually see AAVE as degenerate and unworthy of any study. Or how the Hispanic population must learn English even if they're fluent in Spanish already but for non-Hispanic whites, learning anything but English is a choice, a luxury. Look at how women authors are significantly better at writing male characters than male authors are of writing female characters, because everyone is required to think of the life and needs of men and everyone who engages in fiction has to read stories about men, but men are not forced to do the opposite. Look at how cisgender people almost invariably have literally no idea what life is like for a trans person or even what being trans means while trans people are quite obviously well aware of what life is like for a cis person.

This is basic, basic stuff here.

[Broomstick]

If you think white Americans do or even can face meaningful racism from black Americans, and especially that it's anything remotely similar to the racism experienced by black Americans, then you're the racist who needs to be mocked.

I take issue with the first half of this statement. Yes, white Americans certain can and do experience various forms of bigotry, including racism although you are correct that this is not institutionalized by society. It is that experience of being on the crap end of bias that have motivated many white Americans to oppose and try to overturn institutionalized bias. Don't deny that it happens, instead, harness it. Those who have experienced injustice are more likely to empathize with others in unjust situations and more likely to be enlisted as allies.

[Ralin]

I'm not sure you're even willing to engage on this issue, but look at this. Why does racism matter? It's because it causes negative affects, often dramatic and long-lasting. So what racism should we care about? Stuff that actually causes real issues. So racial discrimination that has no power behind it and thus cannot cause these consequences is not relevant. Black people preferentially working with people who will understand their issues and be more likely to not fuck up their lives due to racism isn't racism in literally any meaningful sense. White people making fun of black people's solidarity backed by centuries of stereotyping of black people as both irrational and stupid as well as all alike in a society where almost all of the power is in white hands and will continue that way for some time, however, is!

Racism always has negative effects and is always wrong because it means treating people like an avatar of their skin color and who they're related to instead of like an actual person. Assuming that someone with the same skin color as you will naturally be more sympathetic to you or your cause is very much racism and it is harmful, because it perpetuates the idea that it's okay to think of people in terms of race. My mocking black people for being angry that they were tricked into voting for someone with the wrong skin color is not racism. It's the opposite, because I'm treating them the exact same way I would treat white people who did the same thing. Because treating people equally is how you get rid of racism. Not by obsessing about it until you become a racist yourself.

Listen, I get that you care a lot about the racial issues in US society. I do too! But you're taking it to a crazy degree and trying to argue that treating people the same regardless of skin color is racism. Do you not see how fucked up that is?

[Simon_Jester]

I expect everyone here who complains about redistricting by republicans to condemn this act by the Democrat controlled city council to keep their party in control.

This is excessive, yes, but given given know Republitards willingness to cooperate (translation for Fox News repeaters: city council's unwillingness to be vetoed on every single step) and the fact they work within the system, I'd say it was to be expected in current US political climate and probably the only way to keep the city working in sane matter.

What evidence do you have that the man just elected mayor of Annapolis was some kind of obstructionist moron? Annapolis is not exactly a deep-red territory, Irbis; it's unlikely that a radical hardline Republican could have won election there in my opinion.

Okay, Einstein, answer one question first - given two equally skilled candidates, one of your skin color, one of different, which one are you going to pick? Oh, wait, it's racism only when minorities do it, when privileged imbecile does it's just "informed choice" despite being racist according to his own stupid definition, too

Heh.

Yeah. If being a black voter actually makes him more likely to represent me properly, why wouldn't I vote for the black candidate?

In this case, "is he black" is being used as a proxy for "does he understand the problems faced by black Americans?" It's not a perfectly reliable proxy, but it works a hell of a lot better than assuming that a random white politician will do the job properly. If random white politicians could be trusted to adequately represent the interests of blacks, then the racial gap in socioeconomic status would have been a lot narrower for a long time.

There are literally hundreds of things about any single individual regardless of race that I don't have any experiance or understanding of. I am not a women, women are not men. I am not a first responder throwing myself into harms way, some people are. I am in the military, many are not. I have a family member with special needs, most people do not. Maybe I understand some of these even if I haven't experianced them as this is not impossible to do, but regardless most of us will have to represent people we do not fully understand at some point in our lives.

Again, you might approve of this particular bit of racism as it serves whatever purpose you want, but by definition making a blanket assumption about white people bases on their skin color IS racism.

And your idea that no white people understand black people AND that all black understand all other black people (and apparently all white people somehow) is patently absurd.

Since "is black" has huge socioeconomic consequences that can be made much worse (or less bad) by the effects of state policy, I can see why "is this candidate going to respect the rights and interests of black voters, and guard them from discrimination and injustice?" is very far toward the front of black voters' minds.

While "is the candidate black" is far from the best guide to answer this question, it at least comes close to guaranteeing a few minimal qualifications for the candidate. And to seize on this fraudulently, to attempt to claim that one is black when one is not, as a way of gaining political support from blacks is reprehensible.

[Akhlut]

Racism always has negative effects and is always wrong because it means treating people like an avatar of their skin color and who they're related to instead of like an actual person. Assuming that someone with the same skin color as you will naturally be more sympathetic to you or your cause is very much racism and it is harmful, because it perpetuates the idea that it's okay to think of people in terms of race. My mocking black people for being angry that they were tricked into voting for someone with the wrong skin color is not racism. It's the opposite, because I'm treating them the exact same way I would treat white people who did the same thing. Because treating people equally is how you get rid of racism. Not by obsessing about it until you become a racist yourself.

Listen, I get that you care a lot about the racial issues in US society. I do too! But you're taking it to a crazy degree and trying to argue that treating people the same regardless of skin color is racism. Do you not see how fucked up that is?

Until you get rid of systemic racism and eliminate the huge gulf between whites and minorities in terms of socioeconomic status, you're "I treat people of all races the same" is bullshit due to white privilege. Audit some sociology classes set your local college to learn why your attitude is ignorant as shit.

[PainRack]

I find it....... absurd that we aren't mocking the voters who didn't investigate the election of a COLLEGE TRUSTEE.

Fuck. This ISN"T an election for mayor or President. Its an election for a COMMUNITY COLLEGE.

AGAIN. If you DIDN"T bother to investigate the credentials of your chosen candidate, don't fucking vote!

And if you fucking screwed up, that's the voters fault. Seriously. The voters for a community college trustee voted in someone who has consistently campaigned to deny the college funding and actions. As a stakeholder, you have to be absolutely dumb to have voted in an obstructionist and not realized that he was said obstructionist.


All this talk about systematic racism is avoiding the point. The VOTERS, didn't fucking INVESTIGATE, the credentials of a COLLEGE TRUSTEE, an KNOWN obstructionist of the college and active in the Tea Party.

[Ralin]

Until you get rid of systemic racism and eliminate the huge gulf between whites and minorities in terms of socioeconomic status, you're "I treat people of all races the same" is bullshit due to white privilege. Audit some sociology classes set your local college to learn why your attitude is ignorant as shit.

No, no it's not. I am not responsible for those problems and I refuse to accept that it is ever right to discriminate against people on the basis of their skin color. Again, you get rid of racism by not being a racist and treating people differently according to their race. "Privilege" has turned into code for "My opinion matters more because I'm a minority," and that is just plain wrong.

But, you know, please go on trying to explain why treating people the same regardless of skin color is racist. I love a good mental gymnastics routine.