*Snif* Monty would be proud...

[Crayz9000]

The Iraqi's do have a few early model M60's IIRC

Where did you hear that? And if it's true, then how the hell did the Iraqis get Pattons?

[Rubberanvil]

Can the Iraqi tanks fire while moving... well effectively at least?

Doubtful, the T-55 is nearly 50 years old as a design, and I've yet to hear of a factory or field upgrade kit for giving them fire on the move tech.

IIRC the Israelis are selling an upgrade kit for T-54/55 which includes a 120mm low recoild cannon, modern targeting systems and etc. Chances of the Iraqis having any of those kitted T-54/55 is doubtful.

[Stuart Mackey]

The Iraqi's do have a few early model M60's IIRC

Where did you hear that? And if it's true, then how the hell did the Iraqis get Pattons?

Captured them of Iran perhaps?

[BlkbrryTheGreat]

Montey's only real "success" was driving a half starved Rommel and Afrika Corps back across North Africa, in the rest of the War Patton made him look like a little bitch, again and again.

[Vympel]

Where did you hear that? And if it's true, then how the hell did the Iraqis get Pattons?

700 T-72M and T-72M1 tanks.
500 T-62 tanks.
500 T-54/T-55 tanks.
350 Type-69 tanks. Chinese T-55 copies.
150 Type-59 tanks. Chinese T-54 copies.
30 Cheiftain Mk3/5 tanks. Captured from Iran.
10 M60 tanks. Also captured from Iran?
10 M47 tanks. Also captured from Iran?

Regardless, 10 Pattons are nothing to write home about, considering that without the most recent ammunition they are T-72 fodder, and are vulnerable to both T-54/55 and T-62 fire.

[Crayz9000]

I know the Pattons aren't much to write home about. I was just kind of surprised that they had some U.S. built tanks in their arsenal...

[Stuart Mackey]

Montey's only real "success" was driving a half starved Rommel and Afrika Corps back across North Africa, in the rest of the War Patton made him look like a little bitch, again and again.

Ahh yes would that be the same Monty which set Patton up for his marvelous victorys and gave him his name after D-Day? The Americans faced the German 7th army with 190 tanks while British Operations had made the Germans commit 645 tanks in 11 divisions, against the British.

I mean lets face it, Patton tookover 8 corp after they crushed three German infantry divisions who had between them 2,500 rifles and three armoured divsions that were at half strength, and lets not forget total allied dominance in the air.
Oh, and to give credit where credit is due, Patton skirted the edges of the Normandy breakout, and the German Seventh army, the real work was done by 1st army under Hodges, Patton's corp being transferred to 3rd army.

Amazing how great you can look when you dont face any real opposition.

[Vympel]

Ahh yes would that be the same Monty which set Patton up for his marvelous victorys and gave him his name after D-Day? The Americans faced the German 7th army with 190 tanks while British Operations had made the Germans commit 645 tanks in 11 divisions, against the British.

I mean lets face it, Patton tookover 8 corp after they crushed three German infantry divisions who had between them 2,500 rifles and three armoured divsions that were at half strength, and lets not forget total allied dominance in the air.
Oh, and to give credit where credit is due, Patton skirted the edges of the Normandy breakout, and the German Seventh army, the real work was done by 1st army under Hodges, Patton's corp being transferred to 3rd army.

Amazing how great you can look when you dont face any real opposition.

You're soooooooooo dead- I'm SURE there's a rabid Patton fan somewhere on this board who will leap to his defense

[Stuart Mackey]

snip


You're soooooooooo dead- I'm SURE there's a rabid Patton fan somewhere on this board who will leap to his defense

I am sure Patton was a reasonable commander, with plenty of 'panache' but the hero worship just is not backed up by fact. He was in the right place at the right time and was fortunate to have air dominace.

[Cpt_Frank]

Chances of the Iraqis having any of those kitted T-54/55 is doubtful.

Indeed they don't have any upgraded.
All original 1950s/60s configuration.

700 T-72M and T-72M1 tanks.
500 T-62 tanks.
500 T-54/T-55 tanks.
350 Type-69 tanks. Chinese T-55 copies.
150 Type-59 tanks. Chinese T-54 copies.
*snip*

No T-64? I was almost sure they had a few T-64....

Anyway, time for another pic:

[Vympel]

Chances of the Iraqis having any of those kitted T-54/55 is doubtful.

Indeed they don't have any upgraded.
All original 1950s/60s configuration.

700 T-72M and T-72M1 tanks.
500 T-62 tanks.
500 T-54/T-55 tanks.
350 Type-69 tanks. Chinese T-55 copies.
150 Type-59 tanks. Chinese T-54 copies.
*snip*

No T-64? I was almost sure they had a few T-64....

Anyway, time for another pic:
http://legion.wplus.net/guide/army/ta/t59-1.jpg

T-64? Not a chance- Soviet Union ONLY. Never exported. Just like the T-80- until after the fall, that is. The uber-tanks of the Rodina did not go to the incompetent vassals- T-72s for them.

However, the Iraqis *did* upgrade some of their tanks themselves- with CEMENT applique armor. And it WORKED. In the Iran Iraq war one T-55 kitted out with the stuff survived eight direct Milan ATGM hits.

[Rubberanvil]

However, the Iraqis *did* upgrade some of their tanks themselves- with CEMENT applique armor. And it WORKED. In the Iran Iraq war one T-55 kitted out with the stuff survived eight direct Milan ATGM hits.

I wager that CEMENT applique armor is Relatively(sp) cheap make and install. Well compared to the over-high tech types the American companies make.

[Cpt_Frank]

Here's a pic of the Iraqi cement-armor T-55:


apparently captured by US troops in the 1st gulf war and now in a museum.

[Vympel]

Cool pic, thanks a bunch!

[Cpt_Frank]

Cool pic, thanks a bunch!

looks really modern with that stuff

(btw I removed the pic you quoted in the above post)

[Vympel]

Cool pic, thanks a bunch!

looks really modern with that stuff

(btw I removed the pic you quoted in the above post)

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land ... 5-iraq.jpg

Another cement T-55.

http://www.army.lv/Tehnika/Tanks/T-55/T-55(3).jpg

A T-55 with Kontakts ERA (light, not the uber Kontakts-V stuff)

[Cpt_Frank]

Cool pic, thanks a bunch!

looks really modern with that stuff

(btw I removed the pic you quoted in the above post)

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land ... 5-iraq.jpg

Another cement T-55.

They seemed to be relatively common. Strange we haven't seen any of them in this war.

http://www.army.lv/Tehnika/Tanks/T-55/T-55(3).jpg

A T-55 with Kontakts ERA (light, not the uber Kontakts-V stuff)

http://www.jed.simonides.org/tanks/tang ... 55_001.jpg
Ukraine upgrade, one of the more recent ones.

[Stuart Mackey]

Cool pic, thanks a bunch!

looks really modern with that stuff

(btw I removed the pic you quoted in the above post)

That concrete job reminds me of the latest ideas to come out of mother Russia for tank protection..T90? or a T80 overhaul?

[Cpt_Frank]

Cool pic, thanks a bunch!

looks really modern with that stuff

(btw I removed the pic you quoted in the above post)

That concrete job reminds me of the latest ideas to come out of mother Russia for tank protection..T90? or a T80 overhaul?

Erm what do you mean?

The pic is a standard T-55 with thick cement plates-
the T-90 is a development of the T-72 and the T-80 is derived from both the T-64 and the T-72.
Iraq has neither T-80 nor T-90.

[Companion Cube]

No idea if this pic is necessary, but...

[Stuart Mackey]

looks really modern with that stuff

(btw I removed the pic you quoted in the above post)

That concrete job reminds me of the latest ideas to come out of mother Russia for tank protection..T90? or a T80 overhaul?

Erm what do you mean?

The pic is a standard T-55 with thick cement plates-
the T-90 is a development of the T-72 and the T-80 is derived from both the T-64 and the T-72.
Iraq has neither T-80 nor T-90.

I know the development of T80 and T90.I seem to remember a modern Russian design that used armour shaped in a manner similar to that T55 concrete job.