Intifada 3? Kidnapped Israeli citizens might be a flashpoint

[eyl]

She has a point. The IDF inflicts collective punishment on Palestinians all the time. So of course they'll give a taste of it to the families and neighbors of these Ku Klux wannabes by blowing up their homes, right?

The sun will rise in the west before that happens.

Let me guess, your solution to the racial disparity in execution rates in the US would be to execute more white people?

[Elfdart]

She has a point. The IDF inflicts collective punishment on Palestinians all the time. So of course they'll give a taste of it to the families and neighbors of these Ku Klux wannabes by blowing up their homes, right?

The sun will rise in the west before that happens.

Let me guess, your solution to the racial disparity in execution rates in the US would be to execute more white people?

No, my solution is for you to go play in traffic.

[eyl]

She has a point. The IDF inflicts collective punishment on Palestinians all the time. So of course they'll give a taste of it to the families and neighbors of these Ku Klux wannabes by blowing up their homes, right?

The sun will rise in the west before that happens.

Let me guess, your solution to the racial disparity in execution rates in the US would be to execute more white people?

No, my solution is for you to go play in traffic.

Witty

[Thanas]

She has a point. The IDF inflicts collective punishment on Palestinians all the time. So of course they'll give a taste of it to the families and neighbors of these Ku Klux wannabes by blowing up their homes, right?

The sun will rise in the west before that happens.

Let me guess, your solution to the racial disparity in execution rates in the US would be to execute more white people?

Well, do you think it fair that Israel punishes whole families for what their children do, and if so, why should that not also be applied to Israeli terrorists?

[eyl]

She has a point. The IDF inflicts collective punishment on Palestinians all the time. So of course they'll give a taste of it to the families and neighbors of these Ku Klux wannabes by blowing up their homes, right?

The sun will rise in the west before that happens.

Let me guess, your solution to the racial disparity in execution rates in the US would be to execute more white people?

Well, do you think it fair that Israel punishes whole families for what their children do, and if so, why should that not also be applied to Israeli terrorists?

Well, I don't think it should be done in the case of Palestinians (and the IDF was in agreement until this last incident as the policy of house demolition was suspended five or six years ago), so I fail to see why doing it more is in any way desirable.

EDIT - fixed parenthesis

[Thanas]

That's fair.

[Block]

I'm not seeing where he was arrested for existing, from what I've read, the cousin was arrested for being part of a protest that was tossing rocks and bottles at Israelis.
Edit: and there's video of some of the rock tossing up on BBC.com

[Borgholio]

Well...it begins. Israel launches airstrikes and the military plans to call up as many as 40,000 reservists.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/08/world/mea ... index.html

[Omeganian]

I've been wondering when I'll hear the rocket alarms again. But yesterday's explosions were a bit too loud for comfort.

[Borgholio]

Stay safe over there.

[cosmicalstorm]

Well this time no tunnels and no grand Iranian support. That means it might be 6-10 years before the next meaningless intifada instead of 4-6 years. Unless relations with Egypt and Iran improve once more. Will Israel have lasers the next time?

[Ace Pace]

Well this time no tunnels and no grand Iranian support. That means it might be 6-10 years before the next meaningless intifada instead of 4-6 years. Unless relations with Egypt and Iran improve once more. Will Israel have lasers the next time?

The coming Intifada (which still has a chance to rise up) will be far more similar to the first Intifada, in the sense of being a real mass popular uprising. I'm basing this because many of the riots have occurred in Israeli towns which are usually not connected to external influences.

[The Grim Squeaker]

Whee, rockets in the shower . (Jerusalem)

[Omeganian]

Whee, rockets in the shower . (Jerusalem)

Likewise, but in Ashdod.

[Ace Pace]

And that was around 2km away from me.

In more interesting news, I'm seeing a far more irritated response from Hamas's military wing, mostly because the world doesn't give a shit about them losing quite a few of the reasons to go out for another conflict and seeing mixed reports from Gaza itself that the population isn't really all that enthusiastic about another wave of fighting.

[cosmicalstorm]

The Palestinians have played their cards really bad for the better part of a century. They seem to have done it this time too.
I wonder what would happen if they got a good hit on Dimona. I'm guessing you need something like a direct hit with a JDAM or a nuke to really break that open.

[cosmicalstorm]

Closeup of Iron Dome spitting missiles left and right
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=cba_1404943407

[Omeganian]

Well, a couple rockets just slipped through. Got a heavily wounded not too far from home.

[eyl]

Well, a couple rockets just slipped through. Got a heavily wounded not too far from home.

You in Ashdod, right? They just said that that was a erroneous report, the only serious injuries today were an elderly man who fell and struck his head while rushing to shelter and a soldier in medium condition from a rocket strike in Kerem Shalom.

There's been very heavy fire this evening, a number of large salvos.

[cosmicalstorm]

Missilespam. Car hit outside the window in the final second. Will Israel build more reinforced houses in the future?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x091SqkPq6w

[Ace Pace]

And well that's three intercepts in eyesight from me.

More relevent to N&P is the comparison with the last big operation, Pillar of Cloud in 2012, where the IDF started the combat with a nice surgical strike and followed it up with what was apparently a very accurate target list. This time around both sides were pushed into current round of combat and neither were really ready for it. Which means both sides are digging in and outlook does not look rosy for neither side.

[Sea Skimmer]

The Palestinians have played their cards really bad for the better part of a century. They seem to have done it this time too.
I wonder what would happen if they got a good hit on Dimona. I'm guessing you need something like a direct hit with a JDAM or a nuke to really break that open.

Pretty much anything under two thousand pounds isn't going to be very effective against that much concrete. A smaller weapon like the M302 rockets just might preforate the roof if it had a warhead designed to pierce concrete, but it'd explode to make the preforation and not heavily damage the reactor. That's assuming Israel didn't heavily reinforce the dome over the normal 4-6ft standard of the era when it was built. Also that assumes heavy cased weapons as I said a sentence ago; rocket artillery is almost never heavy cased for penetration since this means a small warhead and small HE load, and kinda the point of using rockets is they can hold lots of explosives. It further assumes the hit doesn't just ricochet which is highly likely with vertical walls + dome roof. Because concrete is relatively soft its hard for weapons to bite into it and avoid ricochet, anti bunker bombs are generally aimed to hit close to dead vertical to solve this but a ballistic rocket will never impact like that.

Most likely result of a Hamas rocket hitting the reactor would be an impact detonation that left a shallow gouge in the concrete, or deflection followed by the weapon breaking up without detonating.

Missilespam. Car hit outside the window in the final second. Will Israel build more reinforced houses in the future?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x091SqkPq6w

Its more economical to build more Iron Dome batteries then to try that now that the threat is in large part factory Grad rockets from Iran with 40km range, its far too many structures to worry about, far too many places where people can be caught in the open. Big areas still don't have any level of coverage.

Also Hamas now has a small number of much heavier rockets which would destroy the original standard of fortification, they already did blow apart one of those concrete slab roofs put over a school building several years ago requiring that all of them be replaced with much heavier construction. You'd basically need about four feet of concrete to be worth it at this point. Sure much lighter concrete can stop a near miss, but then for far less money in turn a ballistic blanket you pull over yourself could do largely the same thing. That's unlikely to happen though since bomb blankets still cost thousands of dollars apiece. Better to buy more Tamir missiles.

[eyl]

Its more economical to build more Iron Dome batteries then to try that now that the threat is in large part factory Grad rockets from Iran with 40km range, its far too many structures to worry about, far too many places where people can be caught in the open. Big areas still don't have any level of coverage.

Also Hamas now has a small number of much heavier rockets which would destroy the original standard of fortification, they already did blow apart one of those concrete slab roofs put over a school building several years ago requiring that all of them be replaced with much heavier construction. You'd basically need about four feet of concrete to be worth it at this point. Sure much lighter concrete can stop a near miss, but then for far less money in turn a ballistic blanket you pull over yourself could do largely the same thing. That's unlikely to happen though since bomb blankets still cost thousands of dollars apiece. Better to buy more Tamir missiles.

Actually, all apartments built in Israel since since 1993 or so are required to have a hardened room or basement. Over the last few days, a number of houses have taken direct hits (including from 40km Grads); the inhabitants who were in the hardened room were uninjured ( last night a house in Be'er Sheva was hit and an elderly women inside was injured, but that was apparently because she couldn't make it to the hardened room in time).

[Ace Pace]

Well, a third Intifada won't result from another rocket barrage. Quite lucky for the region, if probably bad in the longterm that it didn't explode now.

The latest conflict is fast becoming surreal and ever more explicitly PR oriented. The latest example is Hamas announcing that it will fire on the Tel Aviv Metropolitan area a barrage of rockets at 9PM. At 9:07PM we hear some sirens. Less than 2 minutes later the IDF has videos online showcasing the interceptions.

Bizzare.

[Grumman]

The latest conflict is fast becoming surreal and ever more explicitly PR oriented. The latest example is Hamas announcing that it will fire on the Tel Aviv Metropolitan area a barrage of rockets at 9PM. At 9:07PM we hear some sirens. Less than 2 minutes later the IDF has videos online showcasing the interceptions.

Bizzare.

I've seen some articles suggesting that Hamas is running out of allies these days. Here's hoping that what we're seeing is Hamas' death throes, so the Palestinian people can have someone in charge who doesn't actively want to get them killed.