Umptety shooting in usa. Orlando case

[The Romulan Republic]

Can we please not hijack yet another mass shooting into a defence of the Right to Bear Arms?

Though in this case, I agree that guns are probably not the main issue. Terrorism and bigotry are.

[Wild Zontargs]

And ISIS claims responsibility.

Islamic State claims responsibility for Orlando nightclub shooting

Islamic State's Amaq news agency said on Sunday that the Islamist militant group was responsible for the shooting that killed at least 50 people in a massacre at a gay nightclub in Orlando, Florida.

"The armed attack that targeted a gay night club in the city of Orlando in the American state of Florida which left over 100 people dead or injured was carried out by an Islamic State fighter," Amaq said.

(Reporting by Ali Abdelaty; Writing by Ahmed Aboulenein; Editing by Kevin Liffey)

[Dominus Atheos]

The good news (or is it bad news?) is that as Sandy hook taught us, mass shootings don't really lead to substantive change, so no, I don't expect that American muslims are going to face much backlash, at least over the long term.

[Wild Zontargs]

Can we please not hijack yet another mass shooting into a defence of the Right to Bear Arms?

Though in this case, I agree that guns are probably not the main issue. Terrorism and bigotry are.

Too late. Blame the President.

We as Americans, we grieve the brutal murder, horrific massacre, of dozens of innocent people. We pray for their families who are grasping for answers with broken hearts. We stand with the people of Orlando who have endured a terrible attack on their city. Although it's still early in the investigation, we know enough to say that this was an act of terror and an act of hate. And as Americans, we are united in our resolve to defend our people.

I just finished a meeting with the FBI director and my Homeland and national security advisors. The FBI is on the scene and leading the investigation in partner with local law enforcement. I've directed that the full resources of the federal government be made available for this investigation. We are still learning all the facts. This is an open investigation. We've reached no definitive judgment on the precise motivations of the killer. The FBI is appropriately investigating this as an act of terrorism. And I've directed that we must spare no effort to determine what, if any, inspiration or association this killer may have had with terrorist groups.

What is clear is that he was a person filled with hatred. Over the coming days we'll uncover how and why this happens and we'll go wherever the the facts lead us. This morning I spoke with my good friend, Orlando Mayor [Buddy Dyer], and I conveyed to them the deepest condolences of the American people. This could have been any one of our communities. I told him whatever help he and the people of Orlando need, they're going to get it.

As a country, we'll be there for the people of Orlando today and for all the days to come. We also express our profound gratitude to the police and first responders to rushed to harm's way. Their courage and professionalism saved lives and kept the carnage from being worse. That's the kind of sacrifice our law enforcement makes every single day for all of us, and we can never thank them enough.

This is an especially heart breaking day for our friends and fellow Americans who are lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender. The shooter targeted a nightclub where people came together to be with friends, to dance, sing and live. The place where they were attacked was more than a nightclub. It's a place of solidarity and empowerment where people have come together to raise awareness and speak their minds and advocate for their civil rights. This is a reminder that attacks on any American, regardless of race, religion, or sexual orientation is an attack on all of us and on the fundamental values of integrity and dignity that help us as a country.

Today marks the most deadly shooting in American history. The shooter was apparently armed with a hand gun and a powerful assault rifle. This massacre is, therefore, a further reminder of how easy it is for someone to get their hands on a weapon that lets them shoot people in a school or in a house of worship or a movie theater or in a nightclub. And we have to decide if that's the kind of country we want to be. And to actively do nothing is a decision as well.

In the coming hours and days we'll learn about the victims of this tragedy. Their names, their faces, who they were, the joy that they brought to families and to friends and the difference that they made in this world. Say a prayer for them. Say a prayer for their families. Let god give them the strength to bare the unbearable, that he give us all the strength to be there for them and the strength and courage to change. We need to demonstrate that we are defined more as a country by the way they live their lives than by the hate of the man who took them from us.

As we come together, we will draw inspiration from heroic and selfless acts. Friends to helped friends, took care of each other and saved lives in the face of hate and violence. We'll love one another. We will not give in to fear or turn against each other. Instead, we'll stand united as Americans to protect our people and defend our nation and to take action against those who threaten us. God bless the Americans we lost this morning. May it comfort their families. May God continue to watch over this country that we love. Thank you.

[The Romulan Republic]

It just bothers me that whenever there is a shooting like this, the Second Amendment nuts always immediately rush to defend their precious guns, as if that's the most important thing here.

I don't blame this terrorist attack, primarily at least, on the availability of fire arms. But it just seems that their are seriously skewed priorities here.

[Crown]

Was the shooter a homophobe? ATM it's too soon to say why he picked that target- or whether it being a gay club was incidental.

Apparently the shooter's father released a statement saying that religion had nothing to do with this attack, and that the shooter was angry because he saw two men kissing each other in front of his wife and kids.

Nothing ... sure. To paraphrase the late Christopher Hitchens; Religion poisons everything. I suppose his homophobia was the organically developed out of thin air type, like an allergy.

And ISIS claims responsibility.

Islamic State claims responsibility for Orlando nightclub shooting
<snip>
(Reporting by Ali Abdelaty; Writing by Ahmed Aboulenein; Editing by Kevin Liffey)

Those clowns would claim responsibility if a freak meteorite crash landed in San Francisco bay causing a tsunami that wiped the city off the map if it coincided with gay pride day. This was a lone nut who saw an opportunity, not a trained sleeper cell agent that was activated.

It just bothers me that whenever there is a shooting like this, the Second Amendment nuts always immediately rush to defend their precious guns, as if that's the most important thing here.

I don't blame this terrorist attack, primarily at least, on the availability of fire arms. But it just seems that their are seriously skewed priorities here.

Out of curiosity; what aren't you bothered by? Earlier in the thread you were bothered by the thought of "how this will be exploited to fuel xenophobia, authoritarianism, and militarism" and now you're bothered by "the Second Amendment nuts always immediately rush to defend their precious guns, as if that's the most important thing here".

Could you define for me what is for you "the most important thing here"?

[Wild Zontargs]

It just bothers me that whenever there is a shooting like this, the Second Amendment nuts always immediately rush to defend their precious guns, as if that's the most important thing here.

I don't blame this terrorist attack, primarily at least, on the availability of fire arms. But it just seems that their are seriously skewed priorities here.

[Neither an American nor a gun-owner here]

Well, when the President goes on TV and complains that it's too easy to get guns, even though the shooter was specially licensed to have guns, but doesn't say the words "Islam", "Muslim", or "ISIS" once, I can understand why gun-owners would get upset.

EDIT:

ATF: The gunman legally purchased the firearms within the last week. A Glock handgun and an AR-15 Long Gun. Both were purchased in Florida

[wautd]

Was the shooter a homophobe? ATM it's too soon to say why he picked that target- or whether it being a gay club was incidental.

Apparently the shooter's father released a statement saying that religion had nothing to do with this attack,

Yeah right... because religion, Islam in particular, is super tolarent against gay people

[The Romulan Republic]

It just bothers me that whenever there is a shooting like this, the Second Amendment nuts always immediately rush to defend their precious guns, as if that's the most important thing here.

I don't blame this terrorist attack, primarily at least, on the availability of fire arms. But it just seems that their are seriously skewed priorities here.

[Neither an American nor a gun-owner here]

Well, when the President goes on TV and complains that it's too easy to get guns, even though the shooter was specially licensed to have guns, but doesn't say the words "Islam", "Muslim", or "ISIS" once, I can understand why gun-owners would get upset.

EDIT:

ATF: The gunman legally purchased the firearms within the last week. A Glock handgun and an AR-15 Long Gun. Both were purchased in Florida

One might reply by arguing that it is too easy to legally purchase such things. If this scumbag had ties to Daesh, maybe that would have come up in a more thorough background check, for example.

Also, why criticize Obama for not saying "Islam" or "Muslim", unless to suggest that Islam and Muslims collectively should be blamed for this attack? It sounds like you want him to point fingers- just at millions of people instead of at guns/gun rights.

He should, indeed, address any connection to ISIS/Daesh. But Daesh is not the same as Islam or Muslims, obviously.

[madd0ct0r]

Was the shooter a homophobe? ATM it's too soon to say why he picked that target- or whether it being a gay club was incidental.

Apparently the shooter's father released a statement saying that religion had nothing to do with this attack,

Yeah right... because religion, Islam in particular, is super tolarent against gay people

Yeah, becuase attacks on gays in folrida have such a long history of beibg inspired by islam. Until the name came through i genuinly couldnt guess wether we were talking islamofascist nutcases or christonazis nutcases. Brevik called himself a crusader but not many people called shooting children a christian inspired attack.

[Mr Bean]

There is a very fair point to be made on what gun regulation would have stopped Sandy Hook or this Orlando mass shooting. One features a mental case who stole the guns, the other someone who followed every law and worked as a security guard look at all the purposed gun control legislation.

After doing so one can say with honesty literally no purpose law sans a full fire-arms ban would have prevented either incident.

[Channel72]

And ISIS claims responsibility.

Islamic State claims responsibility for Orlando nightclub shooting
<snip>
(Reporting by Ali Abdelaty; Writing by Ahmed Aboulenein; Editing by Kevin Liffey)

Those clowns would claim responsibility if a freak meteorite crash landed in San Francisco bay causing a tsunami that wiped the city off the map if it coincided with gay pride day. This was a lone nut who saw an opportunity, not a trained sleeper cell agent that was activated.

Yeah. I think ISIS also claimed responsibility for my missing USB stick the other day.

What's funny about the American lone-wolf Jihadists is how reluctant they seem when it comes to the whole "suicide" thing. Unlike real hardcore ISIS motherfuckers, these idiots always go out gangsta-style via police chases or hostage situations or whatever. It's like they're just too American or something to embrace the whole "suicide vest" thing. I guess it's harder to blow yourself up when you don't have a steady dose of brainwashing straight from Raqqa.

[Crown]

Apparently the shooter's father released a statement saying that religion had nothing to do with this attack,

Yeah right... because religion, Islam in particular, is super tolarent against gay people

Yeah, becuase attacks on gays in folrida have such a long history of beibg inspired by islam. Until the name came through i genuinly couldnt guess wether we were talking islamofascist nutcases or christonazis nutcases. Brevik called himself a crusader but not many people called shooting children a christian inspired attack.

You realise wautd was talking about religion in the general sense right? He was reacting to the 'religion had nothing to do with it' schtick, you get that right? If it was a "Christonazi Nutcase" who did this and their father came out and said 'religion had nothing to do with it' you understand that wautd's (and by extension; my) reaction would have been the same, right?

[Dominus Atheos]

To try to pull this back on topic, I suspect that he was a repressed homosexual who just had a gay panic, and was just coincidentally a Muslim but used that as an excuse.

Anyone agree? Disagree? Other theories on motivation?

[Flagg]

Wish 50 dead & 53 injured would do something about guns. But they was faggits, so nope!

[madd0ct0r]

Yeah right... because religion, Islam in particular, is super tolarent against gay people

Yeah, becuase attacks on gays in folrida have such a long history of beibg inspired by islam. Until the name came through i genuinly couldnt guess wether we were talking islamofascist nutcases or christonazis nutcases. Brevik called himself a crusader but not many people called shooting children a christian inspired attack.

You realise wautd was talking about religion in the general sense right? He was reacting to the 'religion had nothing to do with it' schtick, you get that right? If it was a "Christonazi Nutcase" who did this and their father came out and said 'religion had nothing to do with it' you understand that wautd's (and by extension; my) reaction would have been the same, right?

To be honest, i dont believe your reactions would be the same. But thats a hypothetical that cant be proved either way, short of going back through the brevik threads.

[Flagg]

I don't care if the fucker was Christian, Muslim, or Jew, only one of the wonderful funderful Abrahamites would have done this. And it pisses me the fuck off that we had body count and all, yet it wasn't a "terrorist attack" until the shooter was identified as Muslim. To paraphrase a wise man: "God damn the USA!"

[Channel72]

There is a very fair point to be made on what gun regulation would have stopped Sandy Hook or this Orlando mass shooting. One features a mental case who stole the guns, the other someone who followed every law and worked as a security guard look at all the purposed gun control legislation.

After doing so one can say with honesty literally no purpose law sans a full fire-arms ban would have prevented either incident.

I think the problem here is not simply with background checks, but with the fact that it's just perfectly legal to purchase equipment that easily lets you just stand there and kill 50 people with very little effort.

[Flagg]

There is a very fair point to be made on what gun regulation would have stopped Sandy Hook or this Orlando mass shooting. One features a mental case who stole the guns, the other someone who followed every law and worked as a security guard look at all the purposed gun control legislation.

After doing so one can say with honesty literally no purpose law sans a full fire-arms ban would have prevented either incident.

I think the problem here is not simply with background checks, but with the fact that it's just perfectly legal to purchase equipment that easily lets you just stand there and kill 50 people with very little effort.

Don't bother. If you can't get it through to them that 10-round maximum legal magazines would make a difference you can't get anything through.

[Grumman]

To try to pull this back on topic, I suspect that he was a repressed homosexual who just had a gay panic, and was just coincidentally a Muslim but used that as an excuse.

Anyone agree? Disagree? Other theories on motivation?

I think it's fucking stupid to blame homosexuality for some psycho pledging allegience to Muslim Hitler and attacking a gay night club.

[Channel72]

To try to pull this back on topic, I suspect that he was a repressed homosexual who just had a gay panic, and was just coincidentally a Muslim but used that as an excuse.

Anyone agree? Disagree? Other theories on motivation?

I think it's fucking stupid to blame homosexuality for some psycho pledging allegience to Muslim Hitler and attacking a gay night club.

???

He's not blaming homosexuality, whatever that means.

Anyway, who cares about his motivations. He was a pissed off prick who hated gays, and he probably flirted with radical Islamic ideologies or something. Who knows. He probably thought pledging allegiance to ISIS would be badass, but everyone knows he's not Straight-outta-Raqqah. Too bad he was too much of a coward to actually go out with a real ISIS-style suicide vest, unlike the terrorists who attacked the Bataclan in Paris.

[Crown]

You realise wautd was talking about religion in the general sense right? He was reacting to the 'religion had nothing to do with it' schtick, you get that right? If it was a "Christonazi Nutcase" who did this and their father came out and said 'religion had nothing to do with it' you understand that wautd's (and by extension; my) reaction would have been the same, right?

To be honest, i dont believe your reactions would be the same. But thats a hypothetical that cant be proved either way, short of going back through the brevik threads.

I commend you for being an honest twat, if nothing else.

[The Romulan Republic]

Wish 50 dead & 53 injured would do something about guns. But they was faggits, so nope!

I'm not saying that they're aren't people who will be indifferent to this because it was targeting gay people, but their most likely wouldn't be substantial gun control reform if it was 50 dead and 53 injured children either. Remember Sandy Hook?

Besides, its a jihadi terrorism case, so if the usual pattern is followed the proposed solutions will tend towards more surveillance, war, and bigotry, not gun control.

Edited to specify jihadi terorrism.

[Mr Bean]

There is a very fair point to be made on what gun regulation would have stopped Sandy Hook or this Orlando mass shooting. One features a mental case who stole the guns, the other someone who followed every law and worked as a security guard look at all the purposed gun control legislation.

After doing so one can say with honesty literally no purpose law sans a full fire-arms ban would have prevented either incident.

I think the problem here is not simply with background checks, but with the fact that it's just perfectly legal to purchase equipment that easily lets you just stand there and kill 50 people with very little effort.

Don't bother. If you can't get it through to them that 10-round maximum legal magazines would make a difference you can't get anything through.

Blocking magazines is one of those laws that sounds great but has almost not effect. You can already 3d print magazines because a magazine is a box with a spring in it. You can make magazines out of milk cartons and duck tape if you want. Even then it falls under the same issues that guns do. There are literally hundreds of millions of magazines out there now illegal, are you going to institute a "everyone hand in your magazines or your a criminal on June 2nd"?

[Flagg]

Wish 50 dead & 53 injured would do something about guns. But they was faggits, so nope!

I'm not saying that they're aren't people who will be indifferent to this because it was targeting gay people, but their most likely wouldn't be substantial gun control reform if it was 50 dead and 53 injured children either. Remember Sandy Hook?

Besides, its a jihadi terrorism case, so if the usual pattern is followed the proposed solutions will tend towards more surveillance, war, and bigotry, not gun control.

Edited to specify jihadi terorrism.

Terrorism my ass. He did it because his imaginary sky friend told him to kill fags. Guess what? A Christian would have done it because his imaginary sky friend told him to kill fags. A Jew would have done it because his imaginary sky friend told him to kill fags.

But because the Muslim did it, we need to kick some Arab ass! Woooooo!