Republicans want to fire federal employees for any reason

[Tribble]

Oh I'm sure the Republicans would be absolutely ecstatic if some people tried to resist the government via force - that gives them the excuse they need to use their guns and mow 'em down! They've been wanting to do that to non-republicans and minorities for decades, and everyone needs a hobby! Plus giving them the pretext they need for yet more emergency powers, suspending remaining rights, concentration camps etc.


Here's a question: if a Democrat state decides to secede from the Union, would Republicans support it? Would they support a Democrat state exercising "state rights"? Or does that only count when Republicans are in charge?

[TheFeniX]

I'm going out on a limb here and going to say: while things aren't going to be that great for the next 4 years, they aren't leading to armed revolt. Before 9/11, GW was getting next to nothing done due to opposition from his own party and lack of popular support. This was because he barely won the election, had a low approval rating, and his own party didn't back him on a lot of his projects (No Child Left Behind was his big claim to fame).

And that was kind of the thing: The U.S. economy coming out of the Clinton admin was doing swimmingly (even though the bubble was going to burst during Bush's admin, no matter what), so the big thing on everyone's mind was "stay the course, DON'T FUCK WITH ANYTHING!" So... he just "cronied" up everything he could the second he took office and tried to make himself look like he knew what he was doing.

And IIRC, when Obama took office, Democrats had a fillibuster-proof majority (which had many Texans all "ZOMG: SOCIALISM!) and nothing came of it. He could have (and tried on a few issues) push whatever he wanted, but even his own party said "forget guns. No one cares about guns: fix the economy." Obama wasn't going to get re-elected because he banned AR-15s. He got reelected because he managed to turn the U.S. economy trainwreck around.

At the end of the day, guns, racism, medical care, whatever: the only thing people really give a shit about is the economy (read: jobs). If they don't have jobs, they aren't happy and they will either oust who took der jerbs or not show up to vote, so the other guys oust you. This happened with Republicans after Bush and co. tanked the economy a few times, though that was mostly total lack of regulation concerning wall street and the housing bubble(s).

How much you want to bet Trump and his Real Estate buddies cause another housing crash and fuck our economy again? And with Reps in control, they can TRY to blame Dems all they want (which is what GW and crew did), but the voters usually respond by kicking you out on your ass.

So, if Trump can actually create jobs and stability, however unlikely that is: get ready for 8 years. Or, worst case: he goes and starts a few brush-fire wars around reelection time and skates into a second term just barely. Meanwhile, Reps start giving up congressional seats because that's just kind of how it works.

[Tribble]

I'm going out on a limb here and going to say: while things aren't going to be that great for the next 4 years, they aren't leading to armed revolt. Before 9/11, GW was getting next to nothing done due to opposition from his own party and lack of popular support. This was because he barely won the election, had a low approval rating, and his own party didn't back him on a lot of his projects (No Child Left Behind was his big claim to fame).

And that was kind of the thing: The U.S. economy coming out of the Clinton admin was doing swimmingly (even though the bubble was going to burst during Bush's admin, no matter what), so the big thing on everyone's mind was "stay the course, DON'T FUCK WITH ANYTHING!" So... he just "cronied" up everything he could the second he took office and tried to make himself look like he knew what he was doing.

And IIRC, when Obama took office, Democrats had a fillibuster-proof majority (which had many Texans all "ZOMG: SOCIALISM!) and nothing came of it. He could have (and tried on a few issues) push whatever he wanted, but even his own party said "forget guns. No one cares about guns: fix the economy." Obama wasn't going to get re-elected because he banned AR-15s. He got reelected because he managed to turn the U.S. economy trainwreck around.

At the end of the day, guns, racism, medical care, whatever: the only thing people really give a shit about is the economy (read: jobs). If they don't have jobs, they aren't happy and they will either oust who took der jerbs or not show up to vote, so the other guys oust you. This happened with Republicans after Bush and co. tanked the economy a few times, though that was mostly total lack of regulation concerning wall street and the housing bubble(s).

How much you want to bet Trump and his Real Estate buddies cause another housing crash and fuck our economy again? And with Reps in control, they can TRY to blame Dems all they want (which is what GW and crew did), but the voters usually respond by kicking you out on your ass.

So, if Trump can actually create jobs and stability, however unlikely that is: get ready for 8 years. Or, worst case: he goes and starts a few brush-fire wars around reelection time and skates into a second term just barely. Meanwhile, Reps start giving up congressional seats because that's just kind of how it works.

A big difference though is that a lot has happened in the past 15+ years, and things have changed. For example, back then the Tea Party movement was very much on the fringe of society, if it existed at all. Now it's Republican Mainstream. Hell Jeb Bush, who was basically George Bush 2.0, got smashed in the primaries as he wasn't deemed republican enough by their voting base. You know things have taken a turn for the worse when Ted Cruz was seen as the "moderate" candidate.

The traditional Republican Party is effectively dead, it's the Tea Party now with Republican branding. While I don't see an armed rebellion in the near future I am concerned about the kind of damage the essentially unrestricted Tea Party will do over the enxt few years.

[TheFeniX]

A big difference though is that a lot has happened in the past 15+ years, and things have changed. For example, back then the Tea Party movement was very much on the fringe of society, if it existed at all. Now it's Republican Mainstream. Hell Jeb Bush, who was basically George Bush 2.0, got smashed in the primaries as he wasn't deemed republican enough by their voting base. You know things have taken a turn for the worse when Ted Cruz was seen as the "moderate" candidate.

"The more things change...."

The Tea Party didn't come into mainstream for any old reason. Republicans had talked big for years about being small govt. and were generally full of shit (especially during the Clinton years) when doing so. After 8 years of economic disasters and bail-outs, the anti-establishment base of the Republican party was already rearing to go. Republicans were done with the Republicans. Obama (a charismatic rock star talking about big LIBURAL changes, and also: He's Black) kicked it into high-gear. The coup de grace was the original establishment Reps who got the movement started were lined up on the proverbial execution block as "moderates."

The thing is: that base is still shrinking, they just happen to control a major political party and there's enough of them who vote to swing an election. As far as I can figure: they still would have lost their ass had Democrats (and moderates) actually showed up to vote like they did for Obama. But they got lazy and/or drank the koolaid that Clinton had it in the bag. It didn't help that Hillary is both boring (IMO) and polarizing. Even with that, Trump couldn't win the popular vote in an election where voter turn-out was pretty apathetic.

About that: Trump is like killing Robot Santa: It's horrible, BUT AT LEAST IT'S NOT BORING!

So, I don't view it as "holy shit, all is lost." More like "I bet you'll vote next time asshole!" That's a GW joke. And people voted their asses off for Obama because of that (also, Rock Star), then got lazy 8 years later because people are fucking dumb and think there's EVER a point in time you stop fighting, are mostly to blame. It wasn't but 8 years ago things were looking "ZOMG, Obama-san, so handsome, so much HOPE. Take me!" fan-fucking-tastic and bright and new future of fixing GWs bullshit. And shit HAS changed in 8-16 years, but the U.S. has seen and survived much bigger and worse things without a shooting war.

That said, Republicans aren't the only ones who shifted.

In 2015, more Democratic voters identified as liberals (42%) than as moderates (38%) or conservatives (17%), based on an average of Pew Research Center political surveys conducted last year. In 2008, when Barack Obama defeated Clinton for the party’s nomination, 41% of Democratic voters called themselves moderates, while just 33% said they were liberals and 23% said they were conservatives. And in 2000, moderate Democratic voters outnumbered liberals by 45% to 27%.

The traditional Republican Party is effectively dead, it's the Tea Party now with Republican branding. While I don't see an armed rebellion in the near future I am concerned about the kind of damage the essentially unrestricted Tea Party will do over the enxt few years.

A lot of people are going to get fucked while this situation fixes itself (so, more things change). There's plenty of blame to go around, but a shrinking number of people are able to work the electoral college and the fault doesn't rest completely with them. The media and Democrats just thought those people were dead and/or dead enough to not influence the election. And really, they were right. AFAIK: Republican voter turn-out wasn't actually any higher than it's been in the past. But Clinton voters didn't show like they needed to.

Honestly, as much as a problem as that is (people being lazy) it bodes WELL for the sanity of this country as far as I'm concerned: just fucking vote and/or give yourself a candidate worth voting for.

[Alyrium Denryle]

And yet, I've been reading about a surge in Left wing gun ownership with Trump coming in. Somewhat anecdotal, yes, but not terribly surprising either. Its incredibly disturbing, and probably, in many cases, quite hypocritical, but also predictable enough, unfortunately.

But yeah, those in power tend to be arrogant enough to assume that that will never change, and that the laws they pass to benefit them will never bite them in the ass.

Pity most politicians don't have Lord Vetinari's foresightedness.

I know I have been considering it. If I end up living and working in a red state, I am just not going to have the security that a friendly federal government has given me for the last eight years. Hate crimes are on the rise, and I wont be a hate crime statistic again. Fuck that, I'll go down fighting if it comes to it.

It might not be a rationally justified fear, the chances of that happening to me are still low, but its happened to me before and Never Again.

---

As for the issues facing the civil service... For the love of humanity, call or write your congresscritters, fellow Americans. The civil service is pretty much all that stands between us and a fully realized Trump. We really don't want to end up like Poland, and that is where we are headed right now.

[JLTucker]

It might not be a rationally justified fear, the chances of that happening to me are still low, but its happened to me before and Never Again.

Your logic is just as retarded as gun owners buying the weapons in a statistically low-crime area to protect themselves.

[Flagg]

The people this country needs to have voting in every election to move America forward into the 19th century won't vote unless you force them to. Which is why election WEEK (Monday-Sunday with Tuesday a federal holiday and ballot by mail for everyone with a drivers license) should be compulsory with the penalty for not voting a $10,000 fine, a 6 month suspended drivers license and up to a year in prison (prisoners also vote with none of that stupid "felons can't vote even after release" BS).

If I really had my way instead of just a minimum voting age, there would be a maximum one, too. 90 year olds have no stake in the future, so like the undead they resemble, we drive a stake through the heart of their voting rights, I don't care how many bullets they took at Inchon.

[Flagg]

It might not be a rationally justified fear, the chances of that happening to me are still low, but its happened to me before and Never Again.

Your logic is just as retarded as gun owners buying the weapons in a statistically low-crime area to protect themselves.

Nice. A soft-serve vanilalla scoop of insensitivity dipped in a molten paraffin shit-head sauce that immediately solidifies post-dunk, all in an ableist cone. The perfect cuntfaced ice cream cone of dumbshit douchebags to be enjoyed by assholes everywhere. I should buy some stock.

[JLTucker]

It might not be a rationally justified fear, the chances of that happening to me are still low, but its happened to me before and Never Again.

Your logic is just as retarded as gun owners buying the weapons in a statistically low-crime area to protect themselves.

Nice. A soft-serve vanilalla scoop of insensitivity dipped in a molten paraffin shit-head sauce that immediately solidifies post-dunk, all in an ableist cone. The perfect cuntfaced ice cream cone of dumbshit douchebags to be enjoyed by assholes everywhere. I should buy some stock.

He admitted it was irrational, so I doubled down on that irrationality.

[Alyrium Denryle]

It might not be a rationally justified fear, the chances of that happening to me are still low, but its happened to me before and Never Again.

Your logic is just as retarded as gun owners buying the weapons in a statistically low-crime area to protect themselves.

1. I know the probability is low*.
2. I don't actually care.
3. Go fuck yourself.

To elaborate on that further, unlike most of those gun owners, I have actually been specifically targeted for hate crimes in the past. Repeatedly. I also have some rather interesting memories of a gay friend of mine being murdered and the cops passing it off as a suicide (Protip: it is kinda hard to tape yourself to a chair and asphyxiate yourself with a plastic bag, before you say anything about me being paranoid). Just this past couple years, there has been a rash of anti-gay hate crimes in Dallas. Cops did sweet fuck-all. Then there is the orlando shooting.

You have no fucking clue what that is like. Hate-crimes are terrorism in miniature, their whole purpose is to make the affected group feel afraid, and guess what, it works. It might not be rational for the affected group to feel that way because per-capita incidence is low*, but it works. I can take precautions against being mugged. I can walk confidently when I am out at night so I dont look like easy prey, and most of the time when someone wants to mug you, you can stay safe by giving them what they want. I can lock my doors at night to prevent burglary etc.

Against hate crimes, the only precaution I can take is to hide within the population, and I won't do that.

For the last eight years, whatever happened at the state or local level though, I knew the feds had my (and our) back(s). Now they won't. I wont even have peace of mind of knowing that someone with prosecutorial discretion will make an attempt at getting justice for me.

So I have three options.

A) I can live in a place where the likelihood of becoming a victim is low. This is the most optimal and I will take it if I can. However, I am an entomologist and unless I get a job in the civil service identifying insects in agricultural shipments coming into a major port, most of my employment prospects are in red states, often in rather hickish areas. Land-grant university towns in the south and midwest, agricultural areas where the USDA has a lab set up, that sort of thing (to drag this thread even somewhat on topic, I am trying to get into the federal service, between this legislation at the FADA, there is a risk that I might get fired on account of sexual orientation as well)

B) I can live with the anxiety and hope nothing happens in my general vicinity that I would be powerless to stop, and if the unthinkable does happen, actually be powerless again. Not doing that.

C) I can give myself the option of being able to defend myself and others. That seems pretty reasonable to me. Not going to have an arsenal in my basement or anything, just a 9 mm pistol. I am not a risk to myself and others the way people who fetishize guns often are. I am reasonably well-adjusted (somehow), and actually respect the power of firearms. I see no valid reason not to arm myself.

Now for the asterisk

(*)There is actually a lot of grey area in hate-crime stats against the LGBT. Many states don't recognize them as existing. With trans people, it is often the police committing them. Let that sink in. So they don't get reported and dont make it into the federal stats, and even in states that do have the necessary legal recognition, police departments often don't investigate hate crimes as such, and thus do not report them to the BJS as such. When you look at per-person incidences of violent hate crimes from survey data, they are MUCH higher than the FBI reports.

[JLTucker]

I apologize, Alyrium. I didn't know that about you.

[Alyrium Denryle]

I apologize, Alyrium. I didn't know that about you.

It's alright. I don't talk about it much.

Now lets drag this back on topic