Hamas launched mass attacks on Israel

[Ralin]

I also submit that the fact we're arguing about which ethnic cleansing would be most inflammatory and likely to lead to long-term ill will is PROBABLY a sign that this is not a realistic option.

[AniThyng]

A one state solution that secular is the only just option long term. A two state solution has never been anything but a pipe dream to sooth the guilt of the west

Presuming any Palestinian leadership is interested in a SECULAR state is already a pipe dream.

[Tribble]

Come back here to say happy thanksgiving… and I’m immediately reminded why we banned Israel v Palestine threads

[Col. Crackpot]

Come back here to say happy thanksgiving… and I’m immediately reminded why we banned Israel v Palestine threads

shit went pear shaped by the second post. That's a new record, even for this place.

[Ralin]

Come back here to say happy thanksgiving… and I’m immediately reminded why we banned Israel v Palestine threads

shit went pear shaped by the second post. That's a new record, even for this place.

Either of you all think you might share what you think was wrong about it?

[Tribble]

Come back here to say happy thanksgiving… and I’m immediately reminded why we banned Israel v Palestine threads

shit went pear shaped by the second post. That's a new record, even for this place.

Either of you all think you might share what you think was wrong about it?

Apart from being a banned topic due to it inevitably and quickly turning into a flame war? Or inevitably turning which side deserves to be killed / genocided / deported / not allowed to exist the most?

There’s a reason why we’ve said f$ck it to this topic in the past, it goes nowhere, riles everyone up and inevitably leads to a mod clampdown with all the stupid sh$t that gets thrown around.

And ya being hypocritical having been absent for awhile, I know, but damn this one gets annoying.

[Ralin]

And ya being hypocritical having been absent for awhile,

Clearly you have been if you think there's some sort of rule against profanity!

[Tribble]

And ya being hypocritical having been absent for awhile,

Clearly you have been if you think there's some sort of rule against profanity!

I objected to the use of profanity… while swearing myself?

Please re-read my post and rules on Israeli v Palestine.

Full disclosure, I’ve flagged this thread for moderation review based on comments already made, they can make a decision.

[Ralin]

I objected to the use of profanity… while swearing myself?

Please re-read my post and rules on Israeli v Palestine.

I was making a joke about you writing "f$ck" on a forum that historically has tended towards using profanity very freely.

[Tribble]

I objected to the use of profanity… while swearing myself?

Please re-read my post and rules on Israeli v Palestine.

I was making a joke about you writing "f$ck" on a forum that historically has tended towards using profanity very freely.

Oh ok, that’s just something I tend to do out of habit (though not always).

I actually swear a lot… verbally lol

texting always feels weird to me for some reason

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Families search for loved ones as Israel 'at war' after Hamas attack

Israel has hit around 800 targets in Gaza after an unprecedented surprise attack by Palestinian militants killed hundreds in the deadliest attack in the country's history.

Residents in the city have been told to evacuate by Israel's prime minister as he warned his country's military will use all of its strength to punish those responsible for Saturday's assault.

The Hamas militant group attacked Israel by land, air and sea, prompting Jerusalem to launch its own barrage of retaliatory attacks.

More 1,000 people, including civilians, have been killed on both sides and thousands more are injured. At least 600 have reportedly been killed in Israel and more than 370 in Gaza.

On Sunday, Israel was still wrestling to gain control of the situation and said its forces are repelling Hamas fighters in a small number of locations. An Israeli official said its forces had killed 400 militants and captured dozens more.

Around a hundred people - including soldiers - have been taken hostage by Hamas, said Israel's embassy to the United States.

A 20-year-old British man serving in the Israeli Defence Services (IDS) is among the soldiers to have died in the attack, according to his family, while another 26-year-old British citizen has been reported as missing.

Preliminary reports indicate that at least four American citizens were killed in the attacks and an additional seven were missing and unaccounted for, according to a US official.

In a show of support, Prime Minister Rishi Sunak said the UK will do "everything we can to help" Israel as he condemned Hamas , while President Joe Biden pledged his "full support" and has sent military assistance to the Eastern Mediterranean to be ready to assist Israel.

Key developments so far:

On Saturday morning, Hamas militants launched a coordinated surprise attack at Israel, killing soldiers and civilians, and taking hostages.

Currently, Israeli media, citing rescue service officials, have confirmed that at least 600 people have died in the attack - including 44 soldiers - and a further 1,500 have been injured.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said that his country is "at war" with Hamas and pledged to reduce the group to "ruins".

Responding to the attack, Israel launched a barrage of retaliatory strikes at Gaza, hitting more than 400 targets and levelling residential buildings.

Palestine's Health Ministry said at least 313 people in the Gaza Strip have so far been killed, including 20 children, while nearly 2,000 have been injured.

On Sunday, Israeli forces continued to repel Hamas militants from several locations, while also exchanging fire with members of the Lebanese militant group Hezbollah.

The family of a British man serving in the Israeli army say he has died during the Hamas attack, while a separate British citizen is confirmed as missing since Saturday morning.

Prime Minister Rishi Sunak condemned Hamas, saying it is "fully responsible for this appalling act of terror" as he expressed solidarity with Israel and shared advice for British nationals concerned about loved ones in the country.

The FCDO has advised against all but essential travel to Israel and Occupied Palestinian Territories due to the conflict.

President Joe Biden has confirmed US military assistance - in the form of a carrier strike group - is en route to Israel.

Hamas launched Saturday's attack by using explosives to break through the border fence enclosing Gaza, before crossing with motorcycles, pickup trucks, paragliders and speed boats on the coast.

The gunmen infiltrated up to 22 locations, as thousands of missiles were aimed at major Israeli cities.

Hamas' military wing leader, Mohammed Deif, said the assault was part of "Operation Al-Aqsa Storm", and called on all Palestinians to join the fight.

The family of a 20-year-old British man have said he is among the Israeli soldiers to be killed during the assault.

Nathanel Young was serving with the Israeli Defence Services (IDS) when he was killed on the Gaza border.

A family statement shared on Facebook read: "We're heartbroken to share that our little brother Nathanel Young was tragically killed on the Gaza Border yesterday."

Prime Minister Rishi Sunak offered advice to British nationals concerned about loved ones in the country, as he condemned Hamas for the "truly horrifying" attacks and expressed his "absolute solidarity for the people of Israel".

Speaking to the British public, he said: "This is a dangerous and fast moving situation on the ground and I know that there will be families anxious about their loved ones."

The Foreign Office is in "close contact" with foreign counterparts in Israel to establish the status of British nationals on the ground, added the PM, and said people should "follow foreign office advice and contact the FO if you have any concerns".

Speaking at Chequers, the prime minister said in a video: “I want to express my absolute solidarity for the people of Israel. Now is not a time for equivocation and I am unequivocal.

“Hamas and the people who support Hamas are fully responsible for this appalling act of terror, for the murder of civilians and for the kidnapping of innocent people, including children.”

He confirmed he had spoken with Prime Minister Netanyahu on the phone on Sunday afternoon "to assure him of the UK's steadfast support" for Israel.

"We will do everything we can to help - terrorism will not prevail," he added.

A No 10 spokesperson said the prime minister also "stressed his commitment to ensuring the Jewish community in the UK feels safe and secure at this time" to Mr Netanyahu.

Meanwhile, the US has ordered the Ford carrier strike group to sail to the Eastern Mediterranean after Americans were reported to be among those killed and missing. Most, if not all, are dual US-Israeli citizens, an official said.

Defence Secretary Lloyd Austin said on Sunday he has ordered the USS Gerald R. Ford - the Navy's newest and most advanced aircraft carrier - and its approximately 5,000 sailors, a deck of warplanes and ships to be ready to provide assistance to Israel.

It will be accompanied by cruisers and destroyers in a show of force that is meant to be ready to respond to anything, from possibly interdicting additional weapons from reaching Hamas and conducting surveillance.

The large deployment underscores the concern that the United States has in trying to deter the conflict from growing. But the Israeli government formally declared war Sunday and gave the green light for “significant military steps” to retaliate against Hamas.

In addition, the Biden administration “will be rapidly providing the Israel Defense Forces with additional equipment and resources, including munitions. The first security assistance will begin moving today and arriving in the coming days,” Mr Austin said.

On Sunday, the IDS were still engaged in fighting, with a military spokesman saying soldiers will search through each area near the Gaza frontier for any remaining Hamas fighters.

Overnight, the Israeli military issued warnings in Arabic to communities near the border with Israel to leave their homes for areas deeper inside the tiny enclave.

The warning came as Israel hit back at Hamas, targeting 426 targets in Gaza - which included levelling a 14-storey building that held offices belonging to the militant group.

Israel's military also fought with the Lebanese militant group Hezbollah, on Sunday morning, after it struck Israeli positions in a disputed area along the border with Syria's Golan Heights.

Jerusalem responded with armed drone strikes on Hezbollah targets in a separate disputed area, where the borders of Israel, Lebanon and Syria meet.

Israel and Hezbollah are archenemies and have fought several wars in the past, the most recent a 34-day conflict in 2006 which left 1,200 dead in Lebanon and 160 in Israel.

Meanwhile, a spokesperson for Israel's military confirmed that two hostage situations had been "resolved" by Sunday. They did not comment on whether all those taken hostage had been rescued alive.

Israel's embassy in London has confirmed that a 26-year-old British man, who was working near the Gaza border at the time of the attacks, is missing.

Jake Marlowe was providing security for a music event in the desert, near Kibbutz Re'im, on Saturday morning.

A spokesperson said: "He is missing, we don't know for sure that he is taken hostage or dead or in a hospital."

International figures have jointly condemned the attacks, including the leaders of the United States, France, Germany and the European Union (EU).

Israel has maintained a blockade over Gaza since Hamas, an Islamist militant group that opposes Israel, took control of the territory in 2007.

In the years since, the opposing sides have fought four wars and been engaged in numerous smaller rounds of fighting.

The blockade, which restricts the movement of people and goods in and out of Gaza, has devastated the territory's economy.

Israel says the blockade is needed to keep militant groups from building up their arsenals, but Palestinians argue the closure amounts to collective punishment.

[Solauren]

I have read theories online that Hamas is being used by Russia and it's allies (both military and political) to try to draw attention and support away from the Ukraine.

Some of the theories are of the opinion that it may not have been Hamas that launched the attack at all, but Russian operatives inside Hamas controlled territory.

[Ralin]

That sounds pretty fucking stupid for a variety of reasons, not least because Israel is a rich and important country that has been fairly quiet about Ukraine and it really doesn't make sense to risk antagonizing them.

Also the part about Russia somehow infiltrating a small army into Gaza for a false flag attack.

[Solauren]

That sounds pretty fucking stupid for a variety of reasons, not least because Israel is a rich and important country that has been fairly quiet about Ukraine and it really doesn't make sense to risk antagonizing them.

Also the part about Russia somehow infiltrating a small army into Gaza for a false flag attack.

Russia to Iran: Hey dude, need a favor, we'll pay for it.

[bilateralrope]

I have read theories online that Hamas is being used by Russia and it's allies (both military and political) to try to draw attention and support away from the Ukraine.

Some of the theories are of the opinion that it may not have been Hamas that launched the attack at all, but Russian operatives inside Hamas controlled territory.

Is there any evidence of that ?

Also, it's Ukraine, not the Ukraine.

[bilateralrope]

How did Israeli intelligence fail to stop major attack from Gaza?

By Frank Gardner
BBC security correspondent

"We have no idea how this could have happened."

That is the reaction Israeli officials have been giving today when I ask them how, with all its vast resources, Israeli intelligence did not see this attack coming.

Dozens of armed Hamas gunmen were able to cross the heavily fortified border between Israel and the Gaza Strip, while thousands of rockets were fired from Gaza into Israel.

With the combined efforts of Shin Bet, Israeli domestic intelligence, Mossad, its external spy agency and all the assets of the Israel Defense Forces, it is frankly astounding that nobody saw this coming.

Or if they did, they failed to act on it.

Israel has arguably the most extensive and well-funded intelligence services in the Middle East.

It has informants and agents inside Palestinian militant groups, as well as in Lebanon, Syria and elsewhere.

It has, in the past, carried out precisely timed assassinations of militant leaders, knowing all their movements intimately.

Sometimes these have been done with drone strikes, after agents have placed a GPS tracker on an individual's car; sometimes in the past it has even used exploding mobile phones.

On the ground, along the tense border fence between Gaza and Israel there are cameras, ground-motion sensors and regular army patrols.

The barbed-wire topped fence is supposed to have been a "smart barrier" to prevent exactly the sort of infiltration that has taken place in this attack.

Yet the militants of Hamas simply bulldozed their way through it, cut holes in the wire or entered Israel from the sea and by paraglider.

To prepare for and carry out such a coordinated, complex attack involving the stockpiling and firing of thousands of rockets, right under the noses of the Israelis, must have taken extraordinary levels of operational security by Hamas.

Not surprisingly the Israeli media has been asking urgent questions of their country's military and political leaders as to how all this could have occurred, on the 50th anniversary of another surprise attack by Israel's enemies at the time: the Yom Kippur war of October 1973.

Israeli officials tell me a major investigation has begun and questions, they say, "will go on for years".

But right now Israel has more pressing priorities. It needs to contain and suppress the infiltration of its southern borders, removing those Hamas militants who have taken control of several communities on the Israeli side of the border fence.

It will need to address the issue of its own citizens who have been taken captive, either through an armed rescue mission or by negotiation.

It will try to eliminate the launch sites for all those rockets being fired into Israel, an almost impossible task of whack-a-mole as they can be launched from almost anywhere with little notice.

And perhaps the biggest worry for Israel is this: how does it stop others responding to Hamas's call to arms and avoid this conflagration spreading into the West Bank and possibly even draw in the heavily-armed fighters of Hezbollah across its northern border with Lebanon?

I'm left with the feeling that someone helped Hamas pull this off. With how predictable Israel's response should have been, I worry that there is something significant that we are unaware of.

[His Divine Shadow]

It sucks that people have to die. But when one side is committing genocide and has had all the power and agency to stop it for the last 50 years or more, and still does, then the ones being genocided are getting some leeway from me in how they resist. This reminds me of the Warszaw uprising, ultimately futile, but understandable.

[madd0c0t0r2]

Residents in the city (Gaza) have been told to evacuate by Israel's prime minister as he warned his country's military will use all of its strength to punish those responsible for Saturday's assault.

Where the fuck to?

[His Divine Shadow]

So Israel will bomb itself?

[Ralin]

Where the fuck to?

The important thing is that they've gotten fair warning.

This is sarcasm, but also the actual justification.

[Broomstick]

I'm left with the feeling that someone helped Hamas pull this off. With how predictable Israel's response should have been, I worry that there is something significant that we are unaware of.

It seems the leading candidate for helping Hamas is Iran (the Iranian government literally celebrated the attack). But there are other possibilities. It's even possible Russia helped out, hoping to distract the US from Ukraine and divide its attention, perhaps in cahoots with Iran. There are a number of other possibilities, including individuals and other anti-Israel groups. Hezbollah has taken the opportunity to lob a few rockets of their own in Israel the past two days, as one example, although my impression is that Hamas and Hezbollah are not friends.

It sucks that people have to die. But when one side is committing genocide and has had all the power and agency to stop it for the last 50 years or more, and still does, then the ones being genocided are getting some leeway from me in how they resist. This reminds me of the Warszaw uprising, ultimately futile, but understandable.

I understand that the Palestinians have real grievances and have been treated unjustly for over 75 years. However, that does not justify atrocities. I can understand it without in any way condoning it.

To the best of my knowledge, the Warsaw ghetto didn't involve angry people running out into the local countryside to massacre people attending a concert, gun people down in their own homes, and carry off women and children to be confined in the Warsaw ghetto. While some groups of Hamas went after IDF soldiers and Israeli police, they also went after the people most likely to be defenseless. I'm guessing you have some organized and trained groups of Hamas and you also had some who were just a howling mob seeking violence and humiliation of those they perceived as their oppressors.

In my view, the Israeli government has treated the Palestinians as my government treated the Native Americans in the 19th Century. One difference is that back in the 1800’s neither side had access to the sort of weaponry we have nowadays.

Residents in the city (Gaza) have been told to evacuate by Israel's prime minister as he warned his country's military will use all of its strength to punish those responsible for Saturday's assault.

Where the fuck to?

I asked that question on another forum myself and the reply was the Israeli governments somewhat details specifications on where in Gaza City civilians should go. And I thought, great, first thing Hamas will start launching rockets from those locations. It's a shit-show all around.

[madd0c0t0r2]

I'm left with the feeling that someone helped Hamas pull this off. With how predictable Israel's response should have been, I worry that there is something significant that we are unaware of.

It seems the leading candidate for helping Hamas is Iran (the Iranian government literally celebrated the attack). But there are other possibilities. It's even possible Russia helped out, hoping to distract the US from Ukraine and divide its attention, perhaps in cahoots with Iran. There are a number of other possibilities, including individuals and other anti-Israel groups. Hezbollah has taken the opportunity to lob a few rockets of their own in Israel the past two days, as one example, although my impression is that Hamas and Hezbollah are not friends.

There's two seperate questions.
1) Aid in terms of equipment, weapons (if any).
2) lack of Israeli spotting it coming, despite the intense and deserved reputation of mossad.

I dunno about 1).
For 2), this is speculation, and borderline conspiracy theory, but the attacks are a gift to netanyahu's regime. Those massive protests about damaging judicial independence? Won't see those allowed. Instead a fresh crop of bitter trauma to bolster his base and increase demands for a strongman.

[madd0c0t0r2]

I'm left with the feeling that someone helped Hamas pull this off. With how predictable Israel's response should have been, I worry that there is something significant that we are unaware of.

It seems the leading candidate for helping Hamas is Iran (the Iranian government literally celebrated the attack). But there are other possibilities. It's even possible Russia helped out, hoping to distract the US from Ukraine and divide its attention, perhaps in cahoots with Iran. There are a number of other possibilities, including individuals and other anti-Israel groups. Hezbollah has taken the opportunity to lob a few rockets of their own in Israel the past two days, as one example, although my impression is that Hamas and Hezbollah are not friends.

There's two seperate questions.
1) Aid in terms of equipment, weapons (if any).
2) lack of Israeli spotting it coming, despite the intense and deserved reputation of mossad.

I dunno about 1).
For 2), this is speculation, and borderline conspiracy theory, but the attacks are a gift to netanyahu's regime. Those massive protests about damaging judicial independence? Won't see those allowed. Instead a fresh crop of bitter trauma to bolster his base and increase demands for a strongman.

[Ralin]

For 2), this is speculation, and borderline conspiracy theory, but the attacks are a gift to netanyahu's regime. Those massive protests about damaging judicial independence? Won't see those allowed. Instead a fresh crop of bitter trauma to bolster his base and increase demands for a strongman.

Guy's been prime minister for something like thirteen of the past fifteen years and very explicitly on a pro-security and not pro-peace platform. He's already the strongman and he's had a fairly free hand to do what he wants in that area. Clearly showing he still can't provide that security after all that makes him look weak.

Now obviously there's a simple way to fix looking weak, (violence)but it still has a lot more potential to fuck him over than benefit him.

I did read that forces had been pulled away from Gaza to back up settlers or otherwise do something bad but politically useful elsewhere against the advice from the actual military. Can't remember the details off the top of my head.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Gal Gadot's Instagram posts in support of her homeland have of course been swamped under tens of thousands of comments as bitter and hate-filled as the actual people fighting in this battle.