Euro to Britain: NHS must go

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2003-05-09 01:58pm

Howedar wrote:No, but as an American, I say fuck the EU! Goddamn freaks don't know what "sovereign" means.

I second that motion.

NapoleonGH · Post by **NapoleonGH** » 2003-05-11 05:32pm

Howedar wrote:No, but as an American, I say fuck the EU! Goddamn freaks don't know what "sovereign" means.

I say fuck the US! Goddamn freaks don't know what "sovereign" means. The federal government interferes in New jersey's sovereignity all the time, son's of bitches. Ohh wait NJ agreed to join the US and follow the fed's commands according to a mutually binding contract known as the Constitution.

Ohh wait again, the UK joined the EU too and abandoned its sovereignity by signing a mutually binding contract. And they are simply being told that IF they join the euro zone they would have to give up NHS, so they are being told that IF they exercise their sovereignity and JOIN the euro, part of the mutually binding agreement will be agreeing to do away with NHS.

I see no violation of national sovereignty

Raptor 597 · Post by **Raptor 597** » 2003-05-11 05:47pm

NapoleonGH wrote:
Howedar wrote:No, but as an American, I say fuck the EU! Goddamn freaks don't know what "sovereign" means.

I say fuck the US! Goddamn freaks don't know what "sovereign" means. The federal government interferes in New jersey's sovereignity all the time, son's of bitches. Ohh wait NJ agreed to join the US and follow the fed's commands according to a mutually binding contract known as the Constitution.

Ohh wait again, the UK joined the EU too and abandoned its sovereignity by signing a mutually binding contract. And they are simply being told that IF they join the euro zone they would have to give up NHS, so they are being told that IF they exercise their sovereignity and JOIN the euro, part of the mutually binding agreement will be agreeing to do away with NHS.

I see no violation of national sovereignty

Actually, doesn't has too. All she needs is an Army that destroys the US Army and 49 National Guard State Forces.

Crazy_Vasey · Post by **Crazy_Vasey** » 2003-05-12 05:24am

That's just not going to happen. Any party that took an action that resulted in the end of the NHS would never see power again, ever. It would be political suicide.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2003-05-12 05:38am

Crazy_Vasey wrote:That's just not going to happen. Any party that took an action that resulted in the end of the NHS would never see power again, ever. It would be political suicide.

I'm assuming you have simply forgotten about the Tory party?

they would privatise anything that wasn't nailed down.

Crazy_Vasey · Post by **Crazy_Vasey** » 2003-05-12 05:45am

Yeah, but rail services and such are a big step down from healthcare I reckon and killing those hasn't exactly earned the tories a lot of goodwill. Anyway Labour wouldn't dare, killing the NHS would remove virtually all their vote from the lefties which would leave them up shits creek without a paddle and while that would be amusing Blair just isn't that stupid.

Post by **Colonel Olrik** » 2003-05-12 07:47pm

Nathan F wrote:
Howedar wrote:No, but as an American, I say fuck the EU! Goddamn freaks don't know what "sovereign" means.
I second that motion.

Errmm, I hate to break it to you both, but Britain is no longer a sovereign nation, it's a State part of a Federation. They entered it on their free will, like all the others, and are free to leave if they want to, like all the others. The reason they won't is because the benefits of an united, solidary and peaceful Europe are far to great to be thrown away and replaced again by national pride and jingoism.

In relation to the news, Portugal, like the other E.U members also has a free NHS. It will never disappear. The news is anti-euro propaganda. The major problem of the Union is, I believe, the current miserable state the British NHS is in, and that it must be reformed.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-05-12 08:39pm

Colonel Olrik wrote:In relation to the news, Portugal, like the other E.U members also has a free NHS. It will never disappear. The news is anti-euro propaganda. The major problem of the Union is, I believe, the current miserable state the British NHS is in, and that it must be reformed.

I've heard horror stories about NHS...gah!

beeurd · Post by **beeurd** » 2003-05-20 11:00am

phongn wrote:
Colonel Olrik wrote:In relation to the news, Portugal, like the other E.U members also has a free NHS. It will never disappear. The news is anti-euro propaganda. The major problem of the Union is, I believe, the current miserable state the British NHS is in, and that it must be reformed.
I've heard horror stories about NHS...gah!

I've heard horror stories about private health care...

Anyway, Tony Blair has reportedly said that the referendum on whether the UK joins the Euro won't take place during this term of office.
So he thinks he's going to SEE another term as Prime Minister?

I think he's in for a shock... I won't vote Labour, they screwed everything up big-time. I don't really want the Conservatives either... I can't imagine Iain Duncan-Smith as PM. Maybe I'll have to vote Monster Raving Loony Party (yes that IS a party, but they don't have enough manpower to stand for government anyway)

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2003-05-20 11:29am

Britian would have to scrap the NHS to join up with the Euro?

Can I ask something?

Why, with one of the most powerful currency rates in the world, would they even WANT to join with the Euro?

I just checked, and 1 British pound is worth 1.4 Euro's.

I also know a lot of people in England, relatives mostly, a few friends, that do not want Britan to merge it's curreny with the Euro.

So, the European union is saying "to merge your more valuable currency and economy with ours, you have to scrap your free health care?"

Screw them.

Like it has been said, free health care is not a problem if run correctly.

I.e we have it in Canada. dental is not covered (no Big Book of British smile jokes please), un-nessacary surgery is not covered, but everything else is. (Perscription drugs have varying degree's of coverage).

If I was Tony Blair, I'd tell the Euro-people to go play with themselves, cause they don't get to fuck healthcare.

Tatterdemalion · Post by **Tatterdemalion** » 2003-05-20 01:21pm

Anyway, Tony Blair has reportedly said that the referendum on whether the UK joins the Euro won't take place during this term of office.
So he thinks he's going to SEE another term as Prime Minister?

Whose gonna replace him? Iain Duncun Smith? ROFL!

Let's face it, Blair can do what ever he wants because the opposition is unelectable.

Post by **Colonel Olrik** » 2003-05-20 01:31pm

Solauren wrote:Britian would have to scrap the NHS to join up with the Euro?

Can I ask something?

Why, with one of the most powerful currency rates in the world, would they even WANT to join with the Euro?.

Having a strong currency is not by default benefic. The Euro is almost at 1.2 $ right now, and people are concerned about the bad effects it will have in the E.U.

Also, a powerful currency is not defined mainly by its relative value, but by its capacity of absorbing shocks, determined by the economy behind it.
The U.K is stuck between two giants, without being able to influence none.

The UK main partner, by far, its the rest of the E.U, and the british commerce is resenting being outside the Euro because of that.

I also know a lot of people in England, relatives mostly, a few friends, that do not want Britan to merge it's curreny with the Euro.

There are also many who want to, specially among those in the industry who are losing money and power.

So, the European union is saying "to merge your more valuable currency and economy with ours, you have to scrap your free health care?".

Read my post. Free health care is spread all over Europe. The problem is with the current state of the British Welfare. A problem the british themselves aknowledge.

Like it has been said, free health care is not a problem if run correctly.

Yes, that's the problem in Britain.

If I was Tony Blair

Tony Blair is amongst the Euro staunchest supporters.

Crazy_Vasey · Post by **Crazy_Vasey** » 2003-05-20 03:09pm

As far as I am aware the British economy still hasn't reached a point where it's ready for the Euro, assuming the changeover makes it through parliament of course. Our chancellor has put out 5 tests the economy has to pass before we're ready, and it seems that they have not been passed.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-05-20 07:31pm

beeurd wrote:
phongn wrote:
Colonel Olrik wrote:In relation to the news, Portugal, like the other E.U members also has a free NHS. It will never disappear. The news is anti-euro propaganda. The major problem of the Union is, I believe, the current miserable state the British NHS is in, and that it must be reformed.
I've heard horror stories about NHS...gah!
I've heard horror stories about private health care...

Anyway, Tony Blair has reportedly said that the referendum on whether the UK joins the Euro won't take place during this term of office.
So he thinks he's going to SEE another term as Prime Minister?

I think he's in for a shock... I won't vote Labour, they screwed everything up big-time. I don't really want the Conservatives either... I can't imagine Iain Duncan-Smith as PM. Maybe I'll have to vote Monster Raving Loony Party (yes that IS a party, but they don't have enough manpower to stand for government anyway)

Of course it's a party. It's my party. I am still a firm supporter of the proposal to tie pillows to railroad cars for safety. Parliment is not taking the issue seriously enough!

Drooling Iguana · Post by **Drooling Iguana** » 2003-05-22 08:28am

It's all irrevelant, really, since it's only a matter of time before the entire world is controlled by the Mighty Canadian Empire.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-05-22 06:15pm

What do the US have against State healthcare anyway?

Not much, apparently, given the fact that our healthcare sector is at least 40% socialized.

We would have the best healthcare system in the world if not for two of our favorite pastimes; lawsuits and bureaucratic bullshit.

NapoleonGH · Post by **NapoleonGH** » 2003-05-22 06:21pm

its not the lawsuits that are ruining health care, its the fact that the buisniesses are bastards, refuse to pay for many services that should be paid for, forcce you to go to specific doctors, and generally instruct doctors and are willing to pay for the cheapest, not the best medicine

Alex Moon · Post by **Alex Moon** » 2003-05-22 07:13pm

NapoleonGH wrote:its not the lawsuits that are ruining health care, its the fact that the buisniesses are bastards, refuse to pay for many services that should be paid for, forcce you to go to specific doctors, and generally instruct doctors and are willing to pay for the cheapest, not the best medicine

Why should businesses be forced to pay for your healthcare?

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2003-05-22 08:07pm

NapoleonGH wrote:its not the lawsuits that are ruining health care, its the fact that the buisniesses are bastards, refuse to pay for many services that should be paid for, forcce you to go to specific doctors, and generally instruct doctors and are willing to pay for the cheapest, not the best medicine

People are a lot of the problem too. Everyone wants everything paid for but no one wants to pay for it. That's always a problem with insurance. Some people use it as its intended, in minimal way until something big comes along. Others figure "I'm paying for it so I'm going to use it". Never mind that they are spending far more than they ever put in for "iffy" reasons. In the long run it takes away from the people who really need that insurance because the insurance company is in it to make money so if someone is milking their insurance someone else is going to be footing the bill and it's not likely to be the insurance company.

The only real way that lawsuits are a problem is that malpractice insurance is costly for physicians, otherwise I haven't heard of a lot of frivolous lawsuits making it very far. I do see hospitals and insurance companies settle on the close ones mainly because jurys tend to go with the sob story. Otherwise, most of the other pay outs have been justified.

NapoleonGH · Post by **NapoleonGH** » 2003-05-22 09:10pm

Alex Moon wrote:
NapoleonGH wrote:its not the lawsuits that are ruining health care, its the fact that the buisniesses are bastards, refuse to pay for many services that should be paid for, forcce you to go to specific doctors, and generally instruct doctors and are willing to pay for the cheapest, not the best medicine
Why should businesses be forced to pay for your healthcare?

because you see, we hire a company, called an insurance company and enter into the contract. They are given a monthly/yearly/weekly/whatever amount of money, in exchange for agreeing to cover my medical care, The company is gambling that I wont need major medical care, as many/most people dont for a good portion of their lives, thus they are getting lots of money in while paying a little out. This is how all insurance works. A standard part of entering into a job is that they not only pay you a salary but also pay that weekly/monthly/yearly rate to the insurance company on your behalf, called a "benefit"

In any case, we are paying into the health insurance companies, it is their responsabiity to pay out, and the moral and honest thing is for them to pay out for the best care, rather than the cheapest. If we nationalized health care then the care could be controled by the government, and hopefully without the motivation of profit, the government could insure quality rather than cheapness.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-05-22 10:08pm

In any case, we are paying into the health insurance companies, it is their responsabiity to pay out, and the moral and honest thing is for them to pay out for the best care, rather than the cheapest. If we nationalized health care then the care could be controled by the government, and hopefully without the motivation of profit, the government could insure quality rather than cheapness.

Of course, just raise those juicy taxes like the French, throw endless amounts of money at the problem, and we can have a high-quality DMV-like healthcare system.

I should also note that in the recent WHO study of healthcare systems across the world, the U.S. ranked #1 in Responsiveness, the only real qualitative measure included in the study (the other two measures, Life Expectancy and Fairness/Equity, which the U.S. did poorly in, are not exactly relevant to the quality of a healthcare system).

BabelHuber · Post by **BabelHuber** » 2003-05-23 02:11am

I also know a lot of people in England, relatives mostly, a few friends, that do not want Britan to merge it's curreny with the Euro.

Fine for them. My impression is that most people with this opinion rather have emotional instead of rational reasons, mostly because of some sort of national pride.

Anybody remember ten years ago when the Hedge Fond of George Soros shot Great Britain out of the European currency exchange rate system?

Just imagine his success if he dared to attack the Dollar or the Euro - he probably would have run out of money before achieving his goal, and he would have known that. So he just wouldn´t have dared to do so. Big currencies are not as vulnerable, you know.

The EU in deed is a monster, but the general tendency to create a unified Europe makes sense to me.

BlkbrryTheGreat · Post by **BlkbrryTheGreat** » 2003-05-23 02:53am

Errmm, I hate to break it to you both, but Britain is no longer a sovereign nation, it's a State part of a Federation. They entered it on their free will, like all the others, and are free to leave if they want to, like all the others.

Don't worry, its just a matter of time until t he EU superstate claims that the "Union" is indissolvable and enforces this claim through the use of arms. Also, many things can be said about the Euro, but the fact remains that it allows the EU government to tax all of Europe, without most of the citizens even noticing, through inflation.

Rubberanvil · Post by **Rubberanvil** » 2003-05-23 04:32am

Tsyroc wrote: . I do see hospitals and insurance companies settle on the close ones mainly because jurys tend to go with the sob story. Otherwise, most of the other pay outs have been justified.

Lawsuits, frivolous or not, against hospitals and doctors (not including the bad doctors) is very bad for everyone.

Crazy_Vasey · Post by **Crazy_Vasey** » 2003-05-23 06:48am

BlkbrryTheGreat wrote:
Errmm, I hate to break it to you both, but Britain is no longer a sovereign nation, it's a State part of a Federation. They entered it on their free will, like all the others, and are free to leave if they want to, like all the others.
Don't worry, its just a matter of time until t he EU superstate claims that the "Union" is indissolvable and enforces this claim through the use of arms. Also, many things can be said about the Euro, but the fact remains that it allows the EU government to tax all of Europe, without most of the citizens even noticing, through inflation.

I'm sure the US wouldn't mind giving us a helping hand in exchange for France kicking rights