europe threatening sanctions

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-05-07 05:05pm

Oberleutnant wrote:You don't need to be a subscriber to read that article.

It's not letting me with out a bunch of registration shit.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2003-05-07 05:06pm

Durran Korr wrote:I need to know their rationalization for writing off tax breaks as an illegal export subsidy first (which the article doesn't really explain).

US companies such as Boeing and Microsoft have benefited from the tax break system which allows firms carrying out business through subsidiaries in offshore tax havens to benefit from reduced export taxes.

Aeolus · Post by **Aeolus** » 2003-05-07 05:06pm

Crazy Ivan wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:Can some one explain to me how and why the Europeans are our friends. I'm afraid I've missed it.

And I love the hypocrisy of Europe. They bitch, moan, and make threats about US behaviour and say how bad we are then turn around and do what we do.

The Price of Opposition

Hypocrisy, Stormbringer? Did you say hypocrisy? When the Iraq War began the public opinion seemed to be something like: "France screwed us over, so now we can screw them over." Frankly, I don't think the US is in a position to whine.

And can you explain to me why the US should remain our allies?

The alliance was mutually benefitial it's dissolution will harm both partys. But I suspect France will suffer more than the US.

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2003-05-07 05:06pm

Stormbringer wrote:
Ermm hello? this is an action in response to what the WTO ruled was essentially US protectionism.
So? And European's haven't done similar things for their businesses for years? Hell, Europe's done more in terms of protectionism than the US has.

And as for it being the WTO's will? Well, all that proves is you can muster a lot of votes. That proves nothing but the popularity of the sentiment.

Well, the USA could sue the EU in WTO if they feel like it.
So far, whateber you say about hipocrisy, it is a standing decision, which the USA is bound to.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-05-07 05:08pm

Dahak wrote:Well, the USA could sue the EU in WTO if they feel like it.
So far, whateber you say about hipocrisy, it is a standing decision, which the USA is bound to.

Why do I have a feeling the WTO is going to be told to fuck off soon?

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2003-05-07 05:08pm

Stormbringer wrote:
Oberleutnant wrote:You don't need to be a subscriber to read that article.
It's not letting me with out a bunch of registration shit.

You just fill in your date of birth, your gender, and your stae zip, and click go. that's all.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2003-05-07 05:08pm

Stormbringer wrote:
Ermm hello? this is an action in response to what the WTO ruled was essentially US protectionism.
So? And European's haven't done similar things for their businesses for years? Hell, Europe's done more in terms of protectionism than the US has.

The US is free to complain about them, I know I wouldn't be running around crying if they did but maybe thats just me.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2003-05-07 05:09pm

Stormbringer wrote:
Dahak wrote:Well, the USA could sue the EU in WTO if they feel like it.
So far, whateber you say about hipocrisy, it is a standing decision, which the USA is bound to.
Why do I have a feeling the WTO is going to be told to fuck off soon?

because they don't bow down to the US?

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-05-07 05:10pm

US companies such as Boeing and Microsoft have benefited from the tax break system which allows firms carrying out business through subsidiaries in offshore tax havens to benefit from reduced export taxes.

That's not protectionism per se, that's just allowing American companies to benefit from tax breaks (what are we supposed to do, cut imaginary taxes for European corporations over which we have no jurisdiction to be fair?).

When the US devotes a very hefty chunk of its budget to agricultural subsidies as the EU does, then we can talk about protectionism.

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2003-05-07 05:11pm

Stormbringer wrote:
Dahak wrote:Well, the USA could sue the EU in WTO if they feel like it.
So far, whateber you say about hipocrisy, it is a standing decision, which the USA is bound to.
Why do I have a feeling the WTO is going to be told to fuck off soon?

Well, the USA are free to hurt their own economy, if they so choose...

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-05-07 05:11pm

TheDarkling wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:So? And European's haven't done similar things for their businesses for years? Hell, Europe's done more in terms of protectionism than the US has.
The US is free to complain about them, I know I wouldn't be running around crying if they did but maybe thats just me.

The problem is anti-US is popular and the EU nations out vote the US. So they get away with the hypocrisy simply because it's popular.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-05-07 05:14pm

Well, the USA are free to hurt their own economy, if they so choose...

Hurt our economy? We're just trying to ease the tax burden on business at a time when easing the tax burden is a good idea (something that Europe is more than free to do as well). The fact that the whiner's club must retaliate by hurting their economy as well as ours is not our fault.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-05-07 05:14pm

TheDarkling wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:
Dahak wrote:Well, the USA could sue the EU in WTO if they feel like it.
So far, whateber you say about hipocrisy, it is a standing decision, which the USA is bound to.
Why do I have a feeling the WTO is going to be told to fuck off soon?
because they don't bow down to the US?

You know about those sanction thingies or don't you remember the point of the article?

I don't think the US will remain in an organization that's going after it, especially not given the blatant hypocrisy of the whole business. It has nothing to do with bowing to the US and everything to do with it being a blatant double standard.

Oberleutnant · Post by **Oberleutnant** » 2003-05-07 05:14pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:I don't recall the US imposing sanctions aginst France.

Although US did not go as far as EU now, it's quite clear that Bush administration considered using them.

(Can't they get it right? EU has 15 member states, not 14.)

Aeolus · Post by **Aeolus** » 2003-05-07 05:15pm

TheDarkling wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:
Dahak wrote:Well, the USA could sue the EU in WTO if they feel like it.
So far, whateber you say about hipocrisy, it is a standing decision, which the USA is bound to.
Why do I have a feeling the WTO is going to be told to fuck off soon?
because they don't bow down to the US?

Both the US and the EU have issues with the WTO. After what will the Euros do if the WTO forces them to drop restrictions on Geengineered crops? The WTO pisses off a lot of nations which either means it's a very good organisation or a very bad one.......

Oberleutnant · Post by **Oberleutnant** » 2003-05-07 05:16pm

Submit and Preview shouldn't be so close to each other...

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-05-07 05:22pm

"Airbus partner governments have borne 75 to 100 percent of the development costs for all major lines of Airbus aircraft and provided other forms of support, including equity infusions, debt forgiveness, debt rollovers and marketing assistance," the trade representative's report said, adding the situation raised "serious concerns" about EU compliance.

And they complain about the US giving tax breaks.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-05-07 05:24pm

"Airbus partner governments have borne 75 to 100 percent of the development costs for all major lines of Airbus aircraft and provided other forms of support, including equity infusions, debt forgiveness, debt rollovers and marketing assistance," the trade representative's report said, adding the situation raised "serious concerns" about EU compliance.

Heh, I have no problem with this. Your governments are essentially transferring money to consumers all over the world at the expense of the European taxpayer. You wanna shoot yourselves in the foot while we reap the benefits, fine by me.

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2003-05-07 05:26pm

Stormbringer wrote:
"Airbus partner governments have borne 75 to 100 percent of the development costs for all major lines of Airbus aircraft and provided other forms of support, including equity infusions, debt forgiveness, debt rollovers and marketing assistance," the trade representative's report said, adding the situation raised "serious concerns" about EU compliance.
And they complain about the US giving tax breaks.

Then the USA should sue the EU, and stop bitching about how the world is sooo unfair to them...

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2003-05-07 05:26pm

Durran Korr wrote:
Well, the USA are free to hurt their own economy, if they so choose...
Hurt our economy? We're just trying to ease the tax burden on business at a time when easing the tax burden is a good idea (something that Europe is more than free to do as well). The fact that the whiner's club must retaliate by hurting their economy as well as ours is not our fault.

I meant by leaving the WTO, not by those tax breaks.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-05-07 05:28pm

Then the USA should sue the EU, and stop bitching about how the world is sooo unfair to them...

Why would we want to screw-fuck relations with one of our biggest trading partners?

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-05-07 05:30pm

Dahak wrote:Then the USA should sue the EU, and stop bitching about how the world is sooo unfair to them...

You mean in the same forum that's slapping the US with sanctions for giving tax breaks while ignoring all that? If you can't see the stupidty in that you must be blind.

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2003-05-07 05:33pm

Stormbringer wrote:
Dahak wrote:Then the USA should sue the EU, and stop bitching about how the world is sooo unfair to them...
You mean in the same forum that's slapping the US with sanctions for giving tax breaks while ignoring all that? If you can't see the stupidty in that you must be blind.

They didn't slap them with sanctions. Those were the last resort granted to the EU if the USA failed to oblige to the WTO decision and changed their laws accordingly.
So, they brought it down on them themselves.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2003-05-07 05:39pm

Stormbringer wrote:
Dahak wrote:Then the USA should sue the EU, and stop bitching about how the world is sooo unfair to them...
You mean in the same forum that's slapping the US with sanctions for giving tax breaks while ignoring all that? If you can't see the stupidty in that you must be blind.

Yeah because the WTO must be biased against the US they couldn't actually be calling it as they see it, and the appeals body made up of 7 legal experts were all bought off by the EU I imagine.

The US has won several victories against the EU in the WTO forum but I suppose we should simply dismiss them, no wait better yet it was simply the EU playing tactically and making it seem like he WTO wasn't in their pocket... yeah that’s the ticket.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-05-07 05:41pm

They didn't slap them with sanctions. Those were the last resort granted to the EU if the USA failed to oblige to the WTO decision and changed their laws accordingly.

Semantics and nothing more. So in other words: Concession Accepted.

So, they brought it down on them themselves.

Oh yes. Because the US has no right to give tax breaks while the EU can finance the an entire company at taxpayer expense.

ALL SHALL TREMBLE BEFORE THE MIGHTY EUROPEAN HYPOCRISY!