Pals start throwing rocks at worshippers at the Wailing Wall

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-09-12 11:14pm

I think we could organize a meteor strike.

LordShaithis · Post by **LordShaithis** » 2003-09-12 11:18pm

Nothing those "holy sites" have to "teach us" is anything that really means shit to the human race in the long run.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2003-09-12 11:26pm

kojikun wrote:I think we could organize a meteor strike.

Wouldn't a meteor strike be an "act of god"?

In Jerusalem I can just see the two sides going at it over who god was pissed at.

He was pissed at you.

No you.

NO you.

NO YOU!

NO YOU!

NO YOU!

NO YOU!

and we'd be right back where we started from.

I can also see that some spin doctor would come up with a way of blaming the destruction of holy sites on the unholiness of everyone else.

Still, I'd be in favor of a test nuking or meteor equivalent of Jerusalem just to see how it goes.

On to Other Holy Sites:
In any case I'd be a little reluctant to craterize the Vaticant, partially because of the rest of Rome but mainly because of all the really cool art they have.

EmperorSolo51 · Post by **EmperorSolo51** » 2003-09-12 11:45pm

GrandAdmiralPrawn wrote:Nothing those "holy sites" have to "teach us" is anything that really means shit to the human race in the long run.

So, you'd be willing to destroy pricless artifacts and manuscripts that can teach people about who they were and what they believed in as well as destroy cities like Kyoto, Rome, and Delhi, etc which are thriving centers of Human culture from yesteryear to today?

Xenophobe3691 · Post by **Xenophobe3691** » 2003-09-13 12:04am

kojikun wrote:I think we could organize a meteor strike.

You do that, and I"d be the first to beat the crap out of you for killing off a whole trove of archaeological data stretching four thousand years. Your contempt for religion has blinded you to the scientific bonanza that lies in that Tel called Mount Moriah.

Tosho · Post by **Tosho** » 2003-09-13 12:13am

Xenophobe3691 wrote:
kojikun wrote:I think we could organize a meteor strike.
You do that, and I"d be the first to beat the crap out of you for killing off a whole trove of archaeological data stretching four thousand years. Your contempt for religion has blinded you to the scientific bonanza that lies in that Tel called Mount Moriah.

I agree, how many peices of priceless art would be destroyed?,
for example.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-09-13 12:14am

EmperorSolo51 wrote:
GrandAdmiralPrawn wrote:Nothing those "holy sites" have to "teach us" is anything that really means shit to the human race in the long run.
So, you'd be willing to destroy pricless artifacts and manuscripts that can teach people about who they were and what they believed in as well as destroy cities like Kyoto, Rome, and Delhi, etc which are thriving centers of Human culture from yesteryear to today?

Oh right, in order to destroy one artifact or building, we'd have to nuke the whole city

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-09-13 12:17am

Xenophobe3691 wrote:
kojikun wrote:I think we could organize a meteor strike.
You do that, and I"d be the first to beat the crap out of you for killing off a whole trove of archaeological data stretching four thousand years. Your contempt for religion has blinded you to the scientific bonanza that lies in that Tel called Mount Moriah.

Wonderful. Please enlighten us as to what scientific advances we can expect from these ancient artifacts. Then explain how that outweighs the violence and conflict engendered by the never-ending disputes over a place like Jerusalem.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-09-13 12:18am

Darth Wong wrote: Oh right, in order to destroy one artifact or building, we'd have to nuke the whole city

I think that's the definition of "meteor strike" that Kokijun was bandying around.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-09-13 12:22am

MKSheppard wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:Oh right, in order to destroy one artifact or building, we'd have to nuke the whole city
I think that's the definition of "meteor strike" that Kokijun was bandying around.

Why? Meteors have destroyed objects as discrete as individual automobiles in the past; they range in size from objects that don't even reach the ground to objects which can wipe out all of humanity. Obviously, we'd want something around the lower end of that range.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-09-13 12:24am

Darth Wong wrote: Wonderful. Please enlighten us as to what scientific advances we can expect from these ancient artifacts.

It's obvious you've never had a sense of awe when you've read about how
achaeologists recovered a remarkably preserved boat of Roman times,
2,000 years old, in the ruins of a town next to Pompeii. You won't get faster
computer chips from that, but damn it's cool, same way as the salvage
of what was left of HMS Mary Rose was.

Then explain how that outweighs the violence and conflict engendered by the never-ending disputes over a place like Jerusalem.

Trying to turn this into a political thread, Mike? If that happens, then
this thread gets locked, as per our rules on Israel v Pal debates...

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-09-13 12:25am

Darth Wong wrote: Why? Meteors have destroyed objects as discrete as individual automobiles in the past; they range in size from objects that don't even reach the ground to objects which can wipe out all of humanity. Obviously, we'd want something around the lower end of that range.

But you're going to need a big piece of rock in order to insure there are
no ruins left to be worshipped - people are strange that way

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-09-13 12:28am

MKSheppard wrote:It's obvious you've never had a sense of awe when you've read about how achaeologists recovered a remarkably preserved boat of Roman times, 2,000 years old, in the ruins of a town next to Pompeii. You won't get faster computer chips from that, but damn it's cool, same way as the salvage of what was left of HMS Mary Rose was.

Correct. I don't give a shit, because it's of no objective value.

Trying to turn this into a political thread, Mike? If that happens, then
this thread gets locked, as per our rules on Israel v Pal debates...

This has nothing to do with Israel/Palestine, since my only point is that Jerusalem's holy sites are a fucking magnet for problems. I've not said anything about whether Israel or Palestine are right or wrong about anything. The only one trying to bring up I/P is you.

EmperorSolo51 · Post by **EmperorSolo51** » 2003-09-13 12:29am

Darth Wong wrote:quote]
Oh right, in order to destroy one artifact or building, we'd have to nuke the whole city

You know what, I am not sure what's worse: Religious fanatics who want to demolish religious artifacts of other people's cultures (aka Taliban in Afghanistan and Christians during the La Reconquista in Spain) or Athiesistic fanatics who want to demolish all religious artifacts and buildings regardless of historic or cultural value.

BlkbrryTheGreat · Post by **BlkbrryTheGreat** » 2003-09-13 12:30am

Darth Wong wrote:Frankly, the world would be better off if all of these fucking "holy sites" from all religions were destroyed, preferably by meteor strike so no one can blame anyone else. They're just another fucking flashpoint for conflict.

They would just fight over the newly created "holy ground". It wouldnt solve anything.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-09-13 12:30am

Atheisistic, huh...

So does that make you theisistic?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-09-13 12:31am

EmperorSolo51 wrote:You know what, I am not sure what's worse: Religious fanatics who want to demolish religious artifacts of other people's cultures (aka Taliban in Afghanistan and Christians during the La Reconquista in Spain) or Athiesistic fanatics who want to demolish all religious artifacts and buildings regardless of historic or cultural value.

Answer: morons who can't read an opponent's arguments are worst.

Sorry, dumb-ass, but I never said I advocated destroying this shit for the sheer fun of it. I said the world would be better off if they were gone because they are a magnet for conflict. You know, CONFLICT; that thing that continually causes people to kill each other.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-09-13 12:32am

Darth Wong wrote: Correct. I don't give a shit, because it's of no objective value.

Meh....then you'd think that this was a waste of money?

This has nothing to do with Israel/Palestine, since my only point is that Jerusalem's holy sites are a fucking magnet for problems. I've not said anything about whether Israel or Palestine are right or wrong about anything. The only one trying to bring up I/P is you.

But if we attempt to talk about how to FIX that problem, without totally
obliterating them, then it WILL wander into that territory.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-09-13 12:33am

Oh, and the answer to your question would be religious fanatics, who have done infinitely more damage to cultural artifacts and landmarks historically than "athiesistic fanatics" could ever hope to do.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-09-13 12:36am

MKSheppard wrote:Meh....then you'd think that this was a waste of money?

Not if they can get enough tourists to gawk at it to get their money back. Otherwise, yes. Unless, of course, people start fighting and killing each other over it for some wacko religious reason

This has nothing to do with Israel/Palestine, since my only point is that Jerusalem's holy sites are a fucking magnet for problems. I've not said anything about whether Israel or Palestine are right or wrong about anything. The only one trying to bring up I/P is you.
But if we attempt to talk about how to FIX that problem, without totally
obliterating them, then it WILL wander into that territory.

Sure, which is why we don't want to talk about I/P's respective moral standings. This is solely about my point that Jerusalem's holy sites have been a flashpoint for conflict for more than a thousand years, and the world would be better off without them.

BlkbrryTheGreat · Post by **BlkbrryTheGreat** » 2003-09-13 12:41am

Sure, which is why we don't want to talk about I/P's respective moral standings. This is solely about my point that Jerusalem's holy sites have been a flashpoint for conflict for more than a thousand years, and the world would be better off without them.

This of course makes me wonder if the Romans had this intent when the destroyed the main Jewish Temple (can't remember the name off the top of my head) two thousand years ago.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-09-13 12:45am

BlkbrryTheGreat wrote: This of course makes me wonder if the Romans had this intent when the destroyed the main Jewish Temple (can't remember the name off the top of my head) two thousand years ago.

Solomon's Temple, or the Second Temple, if I recall correctly

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-09-13 01:12am

BlkbrryTheGreat wrote:This of course makes me wonder if the Romans had this intent when the destroyed the main Jewish Temple (can't remember the name off the top of my head) two thousand years ago.

Well, it's an imperfect solution. The ideal solution would be to get all of these people to drop their religious differences (which basically means they drop their religions), but of course, that won't happen. People cling to their religions rather tenaciously (violently if necessary) because it's a group-identification thing: a rather unfortunate side-effect of our pack-animal instinct.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-09-13 01:32am

Strictly speaking, not all of their religion would need to be removed. Just the part that makes them want to be assholes to each other.

Xenophobe3691 · Post by **Xenophobe3691** » 2003-09-13 01:35am

Darth Wong wrote:
MKSheppard wrote:It's obvious you've never had a sense of awe when you've read about how achaeologists recovered a remarkably preserved boat of Roman times, 2,000 years old, in the ruins of a town next to Pompeii. You won't get faster computer chips from that, but damn it's cool, same way as the salvage of what was left of HMS Mary Rose was.
Correct. I don't give a shit, because it's of no objective value.

Well, if the world were all about objective value, it would be a very boring place. Just because you denounce a work of art as a waste of oil, pigments, and canvas, doesn't mean another person can't see a woman in black with a hypnotizing, mysterious smile that's captivated people for centuries...