Serving US soldier calls for end to to occupation

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2003-09-21 01:15am

Durran Korr wrote:
Not necessarily. As the contracts currently stand, the owner of the pumping rights to Iraqi oil fields is Halliburton, an American company.
No. Halliburton has been hired by the Army COE to extinguish oil fires and repair the oil field infrastructure. It has no drilling rights.

http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/news/nation/6803651.htm wrote:Halliburton, formerly run by Vice President Cheney, began work in Iraq with a $37.5 million no-bid contract in February to put out oil fires. That deal, expanded to include pumping oil, is now worth about $948 million, according to Halliburton figures provided to the New York Daily News.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/oil/story/0,11319,951384,00.html wrote:Kellogg Brown and Root, a Halliburton subsidiary, is pumping up oil despite earlier claims that its contract with the American government was for fighting oil fires, a spokesman for the Army Corps of Engineers told the Guardian.

The bigger role, said corps spokesman Scott Saunders, was being exercised "due to the needs of the Iraqi people". About 125,000 barrels a day were produced, he said, for domestic purposes only.

http://charleston.net/stories/050803/ter_08hallib.shtml wrote:A firm once headed by Vice President Dick Cheney has gone from fixing Iraq's oil wells to actually running them, parlaying a no-bid federal contract into an increasingly lucrative deal to supply Iraq's emergency energy needs.

The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers on Wednesday disclosed this wider role for a subsidiary of Halliburton Co., Cheney's old firm.

This story was published on Thursday, May 8, 2003.

Stuart Mackey · Post by **Stuart Mackey** » 2003-09-21 01:22am

Durran Korr wrote:
Stuart Mackey wrote:
It could be said that the Iraq invasion was everthing to do with contol of oil supplys and giving American companies with government links a payback for getting Bush the Lesser his job.
Of course that could be said. It could also be said that France is a country secretly controlled by Muslim extremists working to thwart the efforts of the United States to stomp out Islamofascism. But I'd have to actually back up that claim to make it true, which I can't.

Ahh, yes. You know it is difficult to get exact proof of such things without having microphones in the White House but one can look at publiclly availible sources.
VP Cheney recives a million a year in deffered compensation..for who knows what services renderd

Quite apart from the likes of Perle who got 725.000 to help Global Crossing sell assets while Defence Policy board chaiman. Perle, of course, broke the 11th commandment and got what he deserved, that he was caught tells me that the rest of the US administration is not exactly squeeky clean.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-09-21 01:24am

Point, and I stand corrected. However, just drilling the oil is still not indicative of a U.S. desire to come to Iraq and seize the oilfields. If Halliburton isn't authorized to take the oil and sell it on the open market it doesn't matter much. It's just more logistics work for the government.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-09-21 01:30am

VP Cheney recives a million a year in deffered compensation..for who knows what services renderd

He receives a fixed pension that does not vary (as long as Halliburton does not go out of business, which they are in no danger of doing with or without oil contracts).

Quite apart from the likes of Perle who got 725.000 to help Global Crossing sell assets while Defence Policy board chaiman. Perle, of course, broke the 11th commandment and got what he deserved, that he was caught tells me that the rest of the US administration is not exactly squeeky clean.

Hasty generalization.

Stuart Mackey · Post by **Stuart Mackey** » 2003-09-21 03:01am

Durran Korr wrote:
VP Cheney recives a million a year in deffered compensation..for who knows what services renderd
He receives a fixed pension that does not vary (as long as Halliburton does not go out of business, which they are in no danger of doing with or without oil contracts).

And you think thats proper for a government offical to be getting a stipend from a corporae he headed as late as 2000?

Quite apart from the likes of Perle who got 725.000 to help Global Crossing sell assets while Defence Policy board chaiman. Perle, of course, broke the 11th commandment and got what he deserved, that he was caught tells me that the rest of the US administration is not exactly squeeky clean.

Hasty generalization.

Aye, its a genralisation, but accurate of some of the dubious things that seem to have gone on.

Take Kenneth L Lay {Or Kenny boy as Dubya liked to call him} for example, former head of Enron.
He, via Enron, was generous to politicians of both stripe to the tune of 6 million dollers but what is disturbing is that some apointee's were sent to him for interveiws by Cheny and Bush. This wee article is very interesting

link to NYT

the full article is here the one you dont have to pay to see

NYT wrote: Kenneth L Lay, head of nation's largest electricity trader, Enron Corp, and close personal friend of Pres Bush's, allegedly offered to support Curtis Hebert Jr in his job as chairman of Federal Energy Regulatory Commission if Hebert changed his views on electricity deregulation; Hebert says Lay prodded him to back national push for retail competition in energy business and faster pace in opening up access to electricity transmission grid to companies like Enron; says he refused offer, even though he knew of Lay's influence in Washington and thought refusal could put his job in jeopardy; Lay recalls conversation differently; says he told Hebert that final decision on his job was Pres Bush's not Enron's; fact that conversation took place at all illustrates Enron's considerable influence in Washington, especially at agency authorized to ensure fair prices in nation's wholesale electricity and natural gas markets; Lay was one of Bush's largest campaign contributors; Vice Pres Dick Cheney has indicated Hebert may soon be replaced; Lay has reportedly weighed in on candidates for other commission posts and has access to team writing White House's energy report, which embraces several initatives and issues dear to Enron; photos (M)

Now I am sure I can find other wee scandals, but dont say that bush's administration is all hunky dory.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-09-21 12:33pm

And you think thats proper for a government offical to be getting a stipend from a corporae he headed as late as 2000?

If Dick Cheney owned Halliburton stock still, you would have a point, but he was required by conflict of interest law to sell it all off before becoming VP. Cheney's pension doesn't vary, regardless of how Halliburton's stock price does, so I don't really see a problem.

Now I am sure I can find other wee scandals, but dont say that bush's administration is all hunky dory.

I never said it was. Besides, we're talking about Halliburton here.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2003-09-21 01:02pm

I think we can demonstrate that the War with Iraq was about oil in a Socratic fashion. Durran, care to do a little Q&A with me?

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-09-21 04:06pm

Socrates? Who needs him? If the radio news report was right, the interim government in Iraq is going to make it legal for foreigners to buy formerly state-run businesses. Raise your hand if you didn't see that one coming.

Invader ZIm · Post by **Invader ZIm** » 2003-09-21 04:30pm

SirNitram wrote:Socrates? Who needs him? If the radio news report was right, the interim government in Iraq is going to make it legal for foreigners to buy formerly state-run businesses. Raise your hand if you didn't see that one coming.

And this is a bad thing how exactly?

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-09-21 04:42pm

Invader ZIm wrote:
SirNitram wrote:Socrates? Who needs him? If the radio news report was right, the interim government in Iraq is going to make it legal for foreigners to buy formerly state-run businesses. Raise your hand if you didn't see that one coming.
And this is a bad thing how exactly?

Not bad persay, but all too expected. The oil production of Iraq will be sold off to foreigners. Bush is still more or less running the show. It will not be a surprise if(Or, perhaps, when) one of his oil buddies snaps up a second country worth of oil production.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-09-21 04:49pm

SirNitram wrote:
Not bad persay, but all too expected. The oil production of Iraq will be sold off to foreigners. Bush is still more or less running the show. It will not be a surprise if(Or, perhaps, when) one of his oil buddies snaps up a second country worth of oil production.

So what? All the oil in the region was originally developed and for quite some time owned by a handful of European and American companies. Overseas companies will keep the oil flowing and invest in modernized equipment because they want to make money and the government will still get its tax money.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-09-21 04:55pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:
SirNitram wrote:
Not bad persay, but all too expected. The oil production of Iraq will be sold off to foreigners. Bush is still more or less running the show. It will not be a surprise if(Or, perhaps, when) one of his oil buddies snaps up a second country worth of oil production.
So what? All the oil in the region was originally developed and for quite some time owned by a handful of European and American companies. Overseas companies will keep the oil flowing and invest in modernized equipment because they want to make money and the government will still get its tax money.

And where did I say any of this wasn't true? It's just looking suspiciously like someone figured out how to turn the Iraq war into a way to gain oil profits. If you don't find this a problem, no problem.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2003-09-21 06:59pm

SirNitram wrote:Socrates? Who needs him? If the radio news report was right, the interim government in Iraq is going to make it legal for foreigners to buy formerly state-run businesses. Raise your hand if you didn't see that one coming.

Not involving the Greek himself, but rather his method of questions and answers to reach a conclusion.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2003-09-21 07:01pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:So what? All the oil in the region was originally developed and for quite some time owned by a handful of European and American companies. Overseas companies will keep the oil flowing and invest in modernized equipment because they want to make money and the government will still get its tax money.

What happened to the large promises by our President that oil production in Iraq would be turned over to the Iraqis ASAP?

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-09-21 07:13pm

Gil Hamilton wrote:
Sea Skimmer wrote:So what? All the oil in the region was originally developed and for quite some time owned by a handful of European and American companies. Overseas companies will keep the oil flowing and invest in modernized equipment because they want to make money and the government will still get its tax money.
What happened to the large promises by our President that oil production in Iraq would be turned over to the Iraqis ASAP?

Have to establish a new Iraqi government before we can do that.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-09-22 01:35am

SirNitram wrote: And where did I say any of this wasn't true? It's just looking suspiciously like someone figured out how to turn the Iraq war into a way to gain oil profits. If you don't find this a problem, no problem.

Well as it turns out, the decision in fact excludes oil, gas and all other natural resource rights.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3126522.stm

Stuart Mackey · Post by **Stuart Mackey** » 2003-09-22 08:36am

Durran Korr wrote:
And you think thats proper for a government offical to be getting a stipend from a corporae he headed as late as 2000?
If Dick Cheney owned Halliburton stock still, you would have a point, but he was required by conflict of interest law to sell it all off before becoming VP. Cheney's pension doesn't vary, regardless of how Halliburton's stock price does, so I don't really see a problem.

Aside from being payed by them

Now I am sure I can find other wee scandals, but dont say that bush's administration is all hunky dory.

I never said it was. Besides, we're talking about Halliburton here.[/quote]

Actually, we are talking about the character of the American Administration..

Stuart Mackey · Post by **Stuart Mackey** » 2003-09-22 08:38am

Invader ZIm wrote:
SirNitram wrote:Socrates? Who needs him? If the radio news report was right, the interim government in Iraq is going to make it legal for foreigners to buy formerly state-run businesses. Raise your hand if you didn't see that one coming.
And this is a bad thing how exactly?

Beacause maybe the Iraqi government might need the revenue?
Maybe the Iraqi's see it as their oil, under their sand?

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-09-22 09:13am

Stuart Mackey wrote:
Beacause maybe the Iraqi government might need the revenue?
Maybe the Iraqi's see it as their oil, under their sand?

Good thing no oil rights will be sold off, see above. And even if they did sell of th rights, they'd still make a rather large amount of taxes. Saddam thought it was worth while to sell drilling rights to the French and Russians after all.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-09-22 01:40pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:
SirNitram wrote: And where did I say any of this wasn't true? It's just looking suspiciously like someone figured out how to turn the Iraq war into a way to gain oil profits. If you don't find this a problem, no problem.
Well as it turns out, the decision in fact excludes oil, gas and all other natural resource rights.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3126522.stm

Thank you.

....Does Iraq have any other industries worth selling?

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-09-23 08:38am

SirNitram wrote:
Thank you.

....Does Iraq have any other industries worth selling?

They had a considerable manufacturing capability before the Gulf War, though I doubt its in good enough shape to attract an overseas buyer, its cheeper and easier to build your own factory in Indonesia and pay the workers a tenth the wages.

Post by **Coyote** » 2003-09-23 11:10am

Goody, back to the War for Oil, and again, I say, "So what?" Again, I ask-- do any of us here really think that Saddam was going to use that oil money to build schools, libraries, hospitals, orphanages, etc? No-- he was going to use oil money to fund his military, and during the sanctions he proved he was perfectly willing and happy to starve his own people to use as a morality club against the West.

Before the war, America got very little oil from Iraq. Even before the GUlf War, we got little from them. One of the criticisms about "war for oil" that I remember from Gulf War I was that we weren't even protecting "our" oil, but oil that went to Japan and Europe. It was one way that we got the Japanese gov't to sign on for financial backing of the war.

People, oil is the backbone upon which the world economy rests. I'm sorry it is that way and I wish we had a nice alternative but for now, that is the reality and it makes sound political and strategic philosophy to safeguard or control that oil.

Now, if American companies control Iraqi oil, well, I say that is great. If we start pumping Iraqi oil and undercut the prices of shit regimes like the Saudis, who fund terror to the hilt, then fine. Yes, oil profits will go into the pockets of rich white men in America, who will use it to buy Lincolns and pay for mistresses, but if the choice is for rich old men to get the money or someone like Osama, well, I'm all for the geezers.

As for this letter, if this 36-year-old Army guy (no rank? At 36 he'd better be at the minimum an E-5 or 0-2) is for real (Active? Reserves? Guard?) he's going to be in deep shit. Since the Clinton era, soldiers in uniform have been given directives not to criticize the Commander in Chief. This guy could be some punk with an axe to grind against the Army or against his chain of command-- an office puke who whines about being away from his daily cappuccino and nooky back home.

Stuart Mackey · Post by **Stuart Mackey** » 2003-09-24 07:13pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:
Stuart Mackey wrote:
Beacause maybe the Iraqi government might need the revenue?
Maybe the Iraqi's see it as their oil, under their sand?
Good thing no oil rights will be sold off, see above. And even if they did sell of th rights, they'd still make a rather large amount of taxes. Saddam thought it was worth while to sell drilling rights to the French and Russians after all.

Inregards to the sell of of government organisations, that has nothing to do with oil.
As to oil, it is American companies who are pumping it, and I wonder who is selling it?
As to Saddam selling drilling rights..who gives a damn? he no longer runs Iraq. The fate of Iraq's oil or other matters of ste revenue and resources should be desided by Iraqi's for Iraqi's.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-09-24 07:20pm

Stuart Mackey wrote:
Inregards to the sell of of government organisations, that has nothing to do with oil.
As to oil, it is American companies who are pumping it, and I wonder who is selling it?

Why would it matter who is selling it? All the money is going to the rebuilding effort and oil for food program. American companies are doing some of the work to operate the system, but they don't own what's being produced.

Stuart Mackey · Post by **Stuart Mackey** » 2003-09-24 07:28pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:
Stuart Mackey wrote:
Inregards to the sell of of government organisations, that has nothing to do with oil.
As to oil, it is American companies who are pumping it, and I wonder who is selling it?
Why would it matter who is selling it?

yeah, it would. You know what politics are like and the perceptions surrounding Iraqi oil can be very political.

All the money is going to the rebuilding effort and oil for food program. American companies are doing some of the work to operate the system, but they don't own what's being produced.

But it is American companies who are being paid to do it, and very handsomly as well, and without public scrutiny as to the award of contract.
Oil for food, I rather supect, has very little to do with whats actully going on.