Kosovo band-aid

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-09-23 09:23pm

TheDarkling wrote:I just look forward to the uber EU numbering 600 million with a combined defence budget, might actually be able to have a nice fleet (a half dozen carriers of good size).

For what purpose?

Post by **Colonel Olrik** » 2003-09-23 09:29pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:
TheDarkling wrote:I just look forward to the uber EU numbering 600 million with a combined defence budget, might actually be able to have a nice fleet (a half dozen carriers of good size).
For what purpose?

We need to keep the whales in order, no?

Seriously, giving that all the E.U countries combined already have three or four carriers, it's not a big step to have an E.U fleet of six of them to fulfill the same roles.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2003-09-23 09:43pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:
For what purpose?

In concert with the Spanish fishing fleet we will rule the ocean.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2003-09-23 09:46pm

Colonel Olrik wrote: Seriously, giving that all the E.U countries combined already have three or four carriers, it's not a big step to have an E.U fleet of six of them to fulfill the same roles.

Actually at the moment Europe has 7 carriers, 1 France, 3 Uk, 2 Italy and 1 Spain however you will note I said good sized carriers.

I just think the EU could use a bigger military because somebody has to sort out Africa and at the moment only France and the UK seem interested in doing so, the world has been sadly lacking a competent policeman since the Empire fell and its long past time somebody sorted the mess out.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2003-09-24 07:47am

TheDarkling wrote:
Colonel Olrik wrote: Seriously, giving that all the E.U countries combined already have three or four carriers, it's not a big step to have an E.U fleet of six of them to fulfill the same roles.
Actually at the moment Europe has 7 carriers, 1 France, 3 Uk, 2 Italy and 1 Spain however you will note I said good sized carriers.

The Brits have glorified escort carriers as so the Spanishg in the Principe de Asturias. The Italian Garabaldi class is an ok small carrier. The only thing even approacing a fleet carrier is the Charles DeGaulle. While admittedly is a pretty good ship, i wouldn't pit her toe to toe with a Nimitz.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2003-09-24 07:49am

Col. Crackpot wrote:
TheDarkling wrote:
Colonel Olrik wrote: Seriously, giving that all the E.U countries combined already have three or four carriers, it's not a big step to have an E.U fleet of six of them to fulfill the same roles.
Actually at the moment Europe has 7 carriers, 1 France, 3 Uk, 2 Italy and 1 Spain however you will note I said good sized carriers.
The Brits have glorified escort carriers as so the Spanishg in the Principe de Asturias. The Italian Garabaldi class is an ok small carrier. The only thing even approacing a fleet carrier is the Charles DeGaulle. While admittedly is a pretty good ship, i wouldn't pit her toe to toe with a Nimitz.

Read what I said.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-09-24 08:37am

Col. Crackpot wrote: The Brits have glorified escort carriers as so the Spanishg in the Principe de Asturias. The Italian Garabaldi class is an ok small carrier. The only thing even approacing a fleet carrier is the Charles DeGaulle. While admittedly is a pretty good ship, i wouldn't pit her toe to toe with a Nimitz.

DeGaulle is a seagoing abortion of a carrier.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2003-09-24 10:29am

Sea Skimmer wrote: DeGaulle is a seagoing abortion of a carrier.

If you use a very loose definiton of "seagoing", that is.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-09-24 10:46am

TheDarkling wrote:(a half dozen carriers of good size).

Carrying only 15~ Harrier Jump Jets does not mean "of good size"

Having a 80 plane air group of conventional jets is "of good size"

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2003-09-24 11:44am

TheDarkling wrote:
Read what I said.

i did. you have 1 carrier of "good size". The Charles DeGaulle, a wonderful floating construct filled with French electronics! the rest are the size of cruisers. A carrier of "good size" would be as large as an old Essex or Forrestall class.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-09-24 11:58am

Col. Crackpot wrote:i did. you have 1 carrier of "good size". The Charles DeGaulle, a wonderful floating construct filled with French electronics! the rest are the size of cruisers. A carrier of "good size" would be as large as an old Essex or Forrestall class.

There's nothing wrong with French electronics.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2003-09-24 12:07pm

MKSheppard wrote:
TheDarkling wrote:(a half dozen carriers of good size).
Carrying only 15~ Harrier Jump Jets does not mean "of good size"

Having a 80 plane air group of conventional jets is "of good size"

Shall I walk you through it Shep, saying I wish we had 6 carriers of good size would imply the current ones aren't of what I would define as good size, I understand English can be a tough language but do try to keep up my good man of coursehaving a flag drapped over your monitor probably doesn't help.

Col. Crackpot: You are correct I should have said "of good size and none shambolic construction", due to the cost over runs and other assorted design problems of that carrier (named after an especially insufferable Frenchman) the French can't have another unless they get in on the RN's current program.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2003-09-24 12:27pm

Oh, and Darkling... you are also assuming that the Brits join this grand EU Navy, which is by no means a forgone conclusion. The whole thing reeks of a Parisian diplomat's wankfest to me.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2003-09-24 02:08pm

Col. Crackpot wrote:Oh, and Darkling... you are also assuming that the Brits join this grand EU Navy, which is by no means a forgone conclusion. The whole thing reeks of a Parisian diplomat's wankfest to me.

We already have an agreement with the French to share our aircraft carriers if the need arises (I believe they were also going to ask Italy and Spain to join in as well), the French are forming their own little EU defence force independent of NATO (plus opening a lot of cooperation with Germany like their new joint Helicopter school) and Blair just recently gave his nod to it (although he dare not enter for fear of annoying the US) all it will take for the UK to get hip deep in the EU is a labour prime minister who tells the US what it can go do with itself.