Bloody hell Phelps

Metrion Cascade · Post by **Metrion Cascade** » 2003-10-13 03:52pm

InnerBrat wrote:Who'd contribute to a fund for getting a monument with the Nine Satanic Statements?

If you need a reminder:

1. Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence!
2. Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams!
3. Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit!
4. Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it instead of love wasted on ingrates!
5. Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek!
6. Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires!
7. Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his “divine spiritual and intellectual development,” has become the most vicious animal of all!
8. Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification!
9. Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as He has kept it in business all these years!

This is going up in my cubicle, with a Baphomet at the top. Would it be un-Atheistic for me to become a Satanist?

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2003-10-13 04:14pm

Metrion Cascade wrote:This is going up in my cubicle, with a Baphomet at the top. Would it be un-Atheistic for me to become a Satanist?

If you were to accept Satan as a deity, yes.
If you were to accept Satanism as a philosophy for life, no.

Andrew J. · Post by **Andrew J.** » 2003-10-13 04:31pm

InnerBrat wrote: 1. Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence!
2. Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams!
3. Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit!
4. Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it instead of love wasted on ingrates!
5. Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek!
6. Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires!
7. Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his “divine spiritual and intellectual development,” has become the most vicious animal of all!
8. Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification!
9. Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as He has kept it in business all these years!

Yikes. All these years I've been a Satanist and I never knew...

Worlds Spanner · Post by **Worlds Spanner** » 2003-10-13 07:18pm

Nathan F wrote:

You know good and well that this bastard isn't the 'true face of Christianity.'

I find a stereotype like that as bigoted as Phelps himself.

Well put!

You all know PERFECTLY well that most Christians aren't Fundies, aren't Inquisitioners, and aren't Crusaders, and that it is totally unnecessary to dump us moderate (or even liberal 'God is Love' types) in with those creeps. I'd also LOVE to be rid of Phelps and I'd love to be rid of the book of Leviticus, which incidently no one takes seriously - at least if they eat pork.

Christianity bashing has it's own threads here, and lots of them. Could we please leave the Fundie bashing threads as Fundie bashing threads?

Psycho Smiley · Post by **Psycho Smiley** » 2003-10-13 10:04pm

If I understand correctly, he's not speaking of the people, he's speaking of the doctrine and texts. Any sane person will say "this is crap, I'm ignoring it" but it's still the official policy. It literally is the "true face of Christianity" if you equate official and true.

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2003-10-13 10:13pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Nathan F wrote:
Wicked Pilot wrote:If we don't count the tramautic impact this will have on Sheppard's family and friends, this may be a good thing. If and when the city council tells Phelps to fuck off, they will also have to remove the Ten Commandments. If for some disgusting reason they let this thing go up, then it will be next to the Ten Commandments, showing the true face of Christianity for all to see.

You know good and well that this bastard isn't the 'true face of Christianity.'

I find a stereotype like that as bigoted as Phelps himself.
How is it bigoted to point out that all Christians regard the Bible to be a holy thing, yet the Bible contains the homophobic hatred of Exodus, Leviticus, and Corinthians?

And how does that automatically make me a homophobe? I might not agree with the practice, but I'm not going to automatically condemn someone for it. Christ preached compassion, not hatred. I find it incredibly bigoted for someone to say that Phelps is the 'true face of Christianity.' I would like you to know that the 'true face of Christianity' is the more moderate majority, not the extreemist minority. And I still find it bigoted that you, a person always speaking out against racism and bigotry, would lump all of Christianity into the personal interpretations of one person or a very few lines in a text written between 2000 and 4000 years ago to show the exact beliefs of a huge group of people. And you will find that the majority of these people might not agree with homosexuality, but are tolerant of it. It would be much better if you were at least a bit tolerant of other's beliefs, especially when they are tolerant of yours.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-10-13 10:24pm

Nathan F wrote:And how does that automatically make me a homophobe? I might not agree with the practice, but I'm not going to automatically condemn someone for it. Christ preached compassion, not hatred. I find it incredibly bigoted for someone to say that Phelps is the 'true face of Christianity.'

OK, Phelps is a true believer in the Holy Christian Bible, and his monument of hatred is a true reflection of Biblical values. Happy now?

I would like you to know that the 'true face of Christianity' is the more moderate majority, not the extreemist minority.

I married a Christian, dumb-ass. I know what most average Christians are like. I also know, however, that there is a great deal of tolerance for the hatemongers.

And I still find it bigoted that you, a person always speaking out against racism and bigotry, would lump all of Christianity into the personal interpretations of one person or a very few lines in a text written between 2000 and 4000 years ago to show the exact beliefs of a huge group of people.

That mouldy old text just happens to be the Bible which they keep distributing and telling everyone to follow. If someone distributed Mein Kampf but complained when you called him a Nazi asshole because he disregards most of it, would you be a bigot? Why the fuck is he distributing it, then?

And you will find that the majority of these people might not agree with homosexuality, but are tolerant of it.

Tolerance is only the first step toward understanding. Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back.

It would be much better if you were at least a bit tolerant of other's beliefs, especially when they are tolerant of yours.

Tolerance of people who hurt no one is a good thing. Tolerance of hatemongering itself, on the other hand, is not. The Bible is evil, even if many of its self-professed followers would rather cover their eyes and not think about that.

For the umpteenth time, if you want to impress me, then find me a church which completely rejects the Old Testament, as well as Paul's bigoted writings. That would leave a handful of gospels regarding Jesus himself, which is supposedly the bedrock of your belief system. I have attended services in many, many churches: Baptist, Mennonite, Pentecostal, Presbyterian, Jehovah's Witness Kingdom Hall. To date, I have not found one yet which does not teach us to obey God's laws as laid down in the Book of Exodus, or which does not quote Paul's hate-filled epistles as moral guidance.

Stop equating beliefs to people. Human beings deserve tolerance and understanding. Fucked-up ideas, on the other hand, do not.

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2003-10-13 10:29pm

Darth Wong wrote:To date, I have not found one yet which does not teach us to obey God's laws as laid down in the Book of Exodus, or which does not quote Paul's hate-filled epistles as moral guidance.

I think the Unitarians are fairly nice in this regard, though I haven't much experience with them.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-10-14 12:47am

In my particular church, I have not heard anything of Paul in twenty years of attendance, and only the ten commandments and the plot of Exodus. The upper echelons of my church (regretably) take these things farther, but my local church does not.

Worlds Spanner · Post by **Worlds Spanner** » 2003-10-14 02:13am

Pablo Sanchez wrote:I think the Unitarians are fairly nice in this regard, though I haven't much experience with them.

The Unitarian Universalist Church isn't a Christian church, although that may be Christianity's loss.

The Religious Society of Friends (Quakers) is usually listed as a Christian church, but in comes in two flavors. One is anywhere from moderately to very fundamentalist, and the other (which I am a member of) has no set doctrine and therefore has lots of non-Christians as members. Enough so that the Fundamentalists deny that we are a Christian church. In many ways they're right, but some of us are 'keeping the faith,' so to speak.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-10-14 03:07am

Howedar wrote:In my particular church, I have not heard anything of Paul in twenty years of attendance, and only the ten commandments and the plot of Exodus. The upper echelons of my church (regretably) take these things farther, but my local church does not.

I didn't mention Catholic churches even though I've been in one, because I don't remember a damned thing about it. I recall a lot of people dressed up in fancy robes and everybody standing up and sitting down at certain times, but mostly I was bored out of my mind.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2003-10-14 03:38am

I believe there's been a quasi-Gnostic revival of late.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-10-14 03:47am

Actually, now that I've been reminded of how dull Catholic services are, could someone please explain to me why this church is so popular despite its sexist policies, its insane views on contraception, its social regressionist hierarchy, its sheltering of pedophiles, and the most boring fucking services one could possibly imagine?

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2003-10-14 03:51am

Darth Wong wrote:Actually, now that I've been reminded of how dull Catholic services are, could someone please explain to me why this church is so popular despite its sexist policies, its insane views on contraception, its social regressionist hierarchy, its sheltering of pedophiles, and the most boring fucking services one could possibly imagine?

Because they take their policy of forgiveness so far that very, very liberal people can be members and they ignore them. But pedophiles can be members and they ignore them, too, because of that.

Worlds Spanner · Post by **Worlds Spanner** » 2003-10-14 10:00am

Also, their services may be boring to you Mike, but compared to many churches they are very short. Even a high mass can be done in 45 minutes and smaller services only take 20 or so.

Given that there are now many Catholics who don't go to confession or do that sort of stuff, it's one of the easiest churches to be a member of.

And it's old. There's probably some inertia involved.

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2003-10-14 12:58pm

Don't the lukewarm burn in Hell too? I guess I'll be seeing you eventually.

Andrew J. · Post by **Andrew J.** » 2003-10-14 03:51pm

Darth Wong wrote:Actually, now that I've been reminded of how dull Catholic services are, could someone please explain to me why this church is so popular despite its sexist policies, its insane views on contraception, its social regressionist hierarchy, its sheltering of pedophiles, and the most boring fucking services one could possibly imagine?

It's because they have a guy in a big hat at the top telling everyone else what to do. You just can't compete with a guy in a big hat.

jinx · Post by **jinx** » 2003-10-14 04:55pm

You're a Quaker Worlds Spanner? Sweet deal. I knew there had to be some other Quakers on the internet besides just me.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-10-14 05:37pm

jinx wrote:You're a Quaker Worlds Spanner? Sweet deal. I knew there had to be some other Quakers on the internet besides just me.

Organised cereal religion?

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2003-10-14 06:21pm

Catholicism, (following the teachings of Cathol

?) is a major pain in the arse, in many senses....I was LEGALLY required to be brought up a catholic. Thanks to the fact I was adopted through a catholic adoption agency.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2003-10-14 07:30pm

Darth Wong wrote:Actually, now that I've been reminded of how dull Catholic services are, could someone please explain to me why this church is so popular despite its sexist policies, its insane views on contraception, its social regressionist hierarchy, its sheltering of pedophiles, and the most boring fucking services one could possibly imagine?

Because Catholics believe that every sperm is sacred, every sperm is great. Therefore they make many more Catholics to replace them.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-10-14 07:37pm

Actually, the wine and bread they give you is kind of tasty.

The worst Catholic service there is the Children's Mass that takes place a few times a day on Christmas Eve. I've seen that fucking Christmas pageant at least ten times.

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2003-10-14 10:54pm

Durran Korr wrote:Actually, the wine and bread they give you is kind of tasty.

The worst Catholic service there is the Children's Mass that takes place a few times a day on Christmas Eve. I've seen that fucking Christmas pageant at least ten times.

Let me tell you, there's a special place in Hell reserved for children's choir ministers who save solos for their tone-deaf daughter...

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-10-14 11:19pm

Darth Wong wrote:Actually, now that I've been reminded of how dull Catholic services are, could someone please explain to me why this church is so popular despite its sexist policies, its insane views on contraception, its social regressionist hierarchy, its sheltering of pedophiles, and the most boring fucking services one could possibly imagine?

Because of the Irish, that's why!

*begins marching army of Irish-Catholics to invade Canada*

jinx · Post by **jinx** » 2003-10-14 11:37pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:
jinx wrote:You're a Quaker Worlds Spanner? Sweet deal. I knew there had to be some other Quakers on the internet besides just me.
Organised cereal religion?

oh hey! that's original. I've never heard that one before.