Segregation in the schoolyard

pellaeons_scion · Post by **pellaeons_scion** » 2003-11-13 12:57am

None. My point was the segregation DW observed isn't just due to toy guns, but the aggregation of many things brought on by smothering parents.

Fair enough. But what I dont get is this idea of trying to shield their offspring from the harsh realities of life? Sure you can protect them from some things, but unless your going to censor everything they watch/hear/read, they will find out about these things. I think parents do their children a dis-service by overprotection, albeit well-meaning.

BlkbrryTheGreat · Post by **BlkbrryTheGreat** » 2003-11-13 01:06am

What the hell do the kid's with no guns play?

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-11-13 01:14am

Dude your kids have awesome toys ...

I was GI Joe kid myself- I have 40 GI Joes and Cobras, with their full armories preserved.

Except I never did get all the members of the Oktober Guard ....

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2003-11-13 01:55am

TrailerParkJawa wrote:You dont see too many kids playing with guns here. I think it has had zero impact on wether or not kids are violent, all its done is reduce accidental shootings of kids by cops.

How much of an arsehole would you feel to shoot someone, only to discover that they were 'armed' with a water pistol or some such?

Does this occur often? Forgive my ignorance, I know next to nothing about life in the States.

This thread got me thinking about the segregation in my schools. Though I can't recall much of anything of my primary school days (aside from the fact I was bored most of the time), I remember that in my high school we segregated on the usual basis - race, religion, jocks/geeks, poor/rich etc.

Something I do remember from primary school - I'd bring my DinoRiders collection (anyone remember these?) and we'd wage war on each other in the school's gardens - we pretended they were a prehistoric jungle. That was cool, and as far as I recall no-one had a problem with it. Well, except for me when the toys got damaged.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-11-13 02:01am

Stofsk wrote:
TrailerParkJawa wrote:You dont see too many kids playing with guns here. I think it has had zero impact on wether or not kids are violent, all its done is reduce accidental shootings of kids by cops.
How much of an arsehole would you feel to shoot someone, only to discover that they were 'armed' with a water pistol or some such?

Happens all the time in American cities. Guns are so plentiful and cop-killings so common that the police are paranoid and therefore quick on the trigger. But you also have the problem of people who are too fucking stupid to raise their hands when ordered to do so. Take the well-known (and hardly unique) case of the guy who reached into his jacket for a wallet and got shot. Sounds atrocious, but if you're a policeman and you point a gun at somebody and say "put your hands in the air!" but he ignores you and reaches into his jacket for something, are you really obligated to wait until he pulls the mystery object out and you can make a positive ID before you take action?

It's less understandable when it's a small child, but that's quite rare. It seems to happen mostly with "youths", ie- people who could be quite possibly carrying the real thing.

Does this occur often? Forgive my ignorance, I know next to nothing about life in the States.

This thread got me thinking about the segregation in my schools. Though I can't recall much of anything of my primary school days (aside from the fact I was bored most of the time), I remember that in my high school we segregated on the usual basis - race, religion, jocks/geeks, poor/rich etc.

Something I do remember from primary school - I'd bring my DinoRiders collection (anyone remember these?) and we'd wage war on each other in the school's gardens - we pretended they were a prehistoric jungle. That was cool, and as far as I recall no-one had a problem with it. Well, except for me when the toys got damaged.

I remember playing with Star Wars toys.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2003-11-13 02:23am

Darth Wong wrote:Happens all the time in American cities. Guns are so plentiful and cop-killings so common that the police are paranoid and therefore quick on the trigger. But you also have the problem of people who are too fucking stupid to raise their hands when ordered to do so. Take the well-known (and hardly unique) case of the guy who reached into his jacket for a wallet and got shot. Sounds atrocious, but if you're a policeman and you point a gun at somebody and say "put your hands in the air!" but he ignores you and reaches into his jacket for something, are you really obligated to wait until he pulls the mystery object out and you can make a positive ID before you take action?

I can understand why police would be paranoid, given the prevalence of gun-culture and how many Americans feel it is their constitutional right to possess a weapon. I suppose that if the situation was such that a policeman was suspicious enough to call out to the person in question and order them to raise their hands, and they DON'T, then it would be reasonable to conclude he was going for a weapon. Even if he wasn't, but then the cop wouldn't know that.

It's less understandable when it's a small child, but that's quite rare. It seems to happen mostly with "youths", ie- people who could be quite possibly carrying the real thing.

That's what I was getting at. To shoot a child who had a toy gun, yet the cop thought he had a real gun, just speaks volumes to me. I cannot conceive of the guilt such an act would invoke. I heard a similar story of an Aussie soldier in Vietnam who shot a child that had a grenade. I still felt horrified, yet I could understand that it was a war-time situation and such events were bound to occur.

But for such events to occur on the streets? Once again, my ignorance is telling. Just how bad is it over there in the States?

I remember playing with Star Wars toys.

Its a shame they didn't make Star Wars lego when I was younger, or I would've made my family poorer than it already was. I've often contemplated buying some of them anyway, and making the excuse of 'they're for my nephews' all to the skeptical look of the check-out chick.

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2003-11-13 02:32am

One of the coolest "war toys" I had was an Iwo Jima playset. It was a moutain with 3 or 4 levels. The bottom was a vehicle garage and the top was an observation post. There was artillery gun in the middle level.

The toy soldiers were not from the standard mold. They were much better than the grocery store bags of soldiers. Although, the Japanese radio guy was a racist caricature. (did I spell that right?) He had round Tojo glasses and buck teeth. Aside from that one, the detail was excellent, right down to authentic side arms.

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2003-11-13 02:59am

BlkbrryTheGreat wrote:What the hell do the kid's with no guns play?

Dress-up.

ArmorPierce · Post by **ArmorPierce** » 2003-11-13 03:01am

Talking about Amado Dialo? He didn't know English and that's an argument for having immigrants learn the language of the country to function. I knew someone that was related to him (cousin or nephew) in high school.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-11-13 03:20am

Mike, not to be a me-too'er, but you are the best dad ever.

Robert Treder · Post by **Robert Treder** » 2003-11-13 05:52am

Darth Utsanomiko wrote:
BlkbrryTheGreat wrote:What the hell do the kid's with no guns play?
Dress-up.

That explains a lot.

Yeah, I spent my childhood constantly playing with toy guns and BB guns. The fence out back is still filled with BBs and Pellets.

When I was a kid and went to play at someone's house who wasn't allowed to play with guns, I always found myself wondering, "why?" It's not like a parent can stop a kid from playing guns...even your hands can be toy guns. So what's the point? Instead of actually teaching a child a lesson about violence or gun safety, these prude parents decide to make the kid learn how to do things without getting caught. For example, I had this one friend whose mom didn't like guns, so whenever I was at his house, we'd build guns out of legos and play with them. If his mom came by, we'd throw the guns onto the ground, and she couldn't tell that they were guns. It seemed to me to be the essence of pointlessness.

Of course, that isn't to say that every kid should be given a pistol and free reign. What a parent should do is teach a child that even though guns and violence are fun to play sometimes, they're serious business, yadda yadda yadda. It's not easy, but nobody ever said that parenting was.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-11-13 05:54am

I don't know about other nations, but I got many a gun replica as a kid from my local stores and even took my replica Colt .45 which fired caps on holiday to Majorca once. I expected the X-ray machine staff to go postal, but they obviously could tell it was a toy, despite being built just like the real thing.

A store in town that sells outdoor hobby goods and swords etc. also sells BB guns and toy guns that look authetic bar one or two details like a red muzzle or something.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-11-13 09:57am

I can't resist the temptation to deliver H.P. Lovecraft's 2 cents on this subject:

Howard Phillips Lovecraft, describing his childhood games of police-and-robbers with his friends, wrote: ...mine was the real thing, but Inspector Munroe (age 12) had a water squirt-pistol, while Inspector Upham (age 10) worried along with a cap-pistol...

Sir Sirius · Post by **Sir Sirius** » 2003-11-13 10:18am

My absolute favourite "toy" as a kid was a J.G.A. 35, man I even once got blisters on my right hand from working the bolt. Ah, those were the days...

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-11-13 11:10am

Uts and I really didn't have many toy guns that I can remember.

So we would build them.

Zac Naloen · Post by **Zac Naloen** » 2003-11-13 11:27am

i was allowed toy guns.... but never the caps that made the loud bang with gunpowder.... i was always jealous of my friends who's guns made more noise than mine

Alan Bolte · Post by **Alan Bolte** » 2003-11-13 11:29am

Ugh, I was one of those other kids, without the guns. Mom insisted on watching any movie or television show beforehand to be sure it didn't include violent or sexual content of any sort. Couldn't leave the house for pretty much anything but school or orgaized sports which she or dad would, in many cases, attend. Couldn't go over to other kids houses until my mom knew the parent really well, and certainly couldn't play with anyone otherwise.

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2003-11-13 11:30am

Darth Wong wrote:This may be the reason why some kids are not encouraged to come play at our place:
*snip*

You sure you didn't raid my old toy box?

But seriously, at my old school, they let us *GASP* bring toy guns to school!

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2003-11-13 01:09pm

I would submit that it could be far more dangerous to snuff out an outlet for youthful violence by 'banning' toy guns and some what violent and physical activity such as cops&robbers or cowboys&indians or what ever the local and current verion is, than to go ahead and let your kid work out some stress and emotions in a some what structured and more or less safe way that those toys and games represent.

Long live the age old childhood game of war.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-11-13 02:07pm

I can understand why police would be paranoid, given the prevalence of gun-culture and how many Americans feel it is their constitutional right to possess a weapon.

The accidental shooting really have less to do with gun culture than with gang culture. The inner cities are fairly close to war zones and the cops know it. It's the prevelance of heavily armed gangs who won't hestitate to kill cops that's the problem.

Most NRA types despise those "gangstas" as much or more than the cops do. There's a huge difference between wanting a gun for legitimate reasons and gun toting criminals.

I suppose that if the situation was such that a policeman was suspicious enough to call out to the person in question and order them to raise their hands, and they DON'T, then it would be reasonable to conclude he was going for a weapon. Even if he wasn't, but then the cop wouldn't know that.

Definitely. The cops know that's it's often him or us and they don't hesitate to react. Look at the death toll of cops in those inner-city areas and you'll see why they don't take chances: they want to live.

[Edit: fixed a little ommision that made my statement harder to understand.]

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-11-13 02:11pm

Stormbringer wrote: Most NRA types despise those "gangstas" as much or more than the cops. There's a huge difference between wanting a gun for legitimate reasons and gun toting criminals.

Yep, I'm one who thinks that frag grenades should be randomly tossed into
gangbanger gatherings

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2003-11-13 02:57pm

Wow, some damn cool toys there Mike.

Personally, i preferred playing with figures, used your imagination alot more and could make generally more violent scenes. We did get supersoakers later though, and they were much fun.

As an aside, i doubt it would've been playing with guns that would make my parents think i was weird, it would be all the gory-as-hell stuff i used to draw.

Post by **LadyTevar** » 2003-11-13 05:02pm

Darth Wong wrote:This may be the reason why some kids are not encouraged to come play at our place:

[/img]http://www.stardestroyer.net/BoardPics/Toys.jpg[/img]

COOL! I love the Gernade Rifle!!

Where can I get my nephews some of these?

pellaeons_scion · Post by **pellaeons_scion** » 2003-11-13 07:00pm

COOL! I love the Gernade Rifle!!

Where can I get my nephews some of these?

How cool

of you Tevar!

You remind me of my aunt, who blatently would buy wartoys and weapons for me for birthdays and the like. A constant bone of contention between my mother and her sister...but I got guns and tanks out of it, so I didnt mind much.

Looking back I kinda see it as undermining her authority, but alls fair in the quest for toys of mock destruction

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2003-11-13 07:59pm

I have to jump on the bandwagon... Mike, that is a severely badass arsenal, I wish I had that level of firepower when I was their age.

Of course, my parents had no problem with getting me Nerf guns and Super Soakers... including the BFG with the backpack tank.