Iran demands entry to nuclear club

Cornelius · Post by **Cornelius** » 2004-03-10 01:42am

Just imagine what would happen if religious fanatics who only cared about achieveing paradise got a hold, legally, of nukes. They would dispatch you with the clearest of ease. Suiciders, especially if legalized, would care less about getting killed.

Not every nation would do it, no, but you just cannot tell. The more fanatic the nation, the less reliable it's leaders are and the more reliable a threat they would become.

Nuke deterence only works when both nations actually A. Care about coninuing and aren't fanatic fundamentalists. B. Care about their own people, which many don't do. Even if you return nuke the nation who nuked you, you most likely won't get the leader, since he would damn sure be in some hidden bunker somewhere.

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-03-10 01:51am

Admiral Valdemar wrote:[

As Skimmer pointed out, it's the in-duh-viduals that we worry about. Look at how Pakistan could lose nukes to rogue cells and then imagine it with Iran.

You're speaking as if it happened with Pakistan. It couldn't. Not outside of Tom Clancy plots.

BlkbrryTheGreat · Post by **BlkbrryTheGreat** » 2004-03-10 02:28am

I say yes for three reasons.

1. It will make it less likely that the US (or any other nation) will ever invade Iran.

2. Despite popular claims to the contrary, I think the people in Iran have enough sense to realize that giving a nuke to terrorists will not help spread/further the cause Islam.

3. It'll piss off Isreal...... alot.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2004-03-10 08:47am

As mush as i am for pissing off Israel, the the thought of a fundamentalist Islamic theocracy armed with nuclear weapons makes me nervous. If in a couple of years the clerics are run out of power, then it would be different.

Comosicus · Post by **Comosicus** » 2004-03-10 08:54am

Col. Crackpot wrote:As mush as i am for pissing off Israel, the the thought of a fundamentalist Islamic theocracy armed with nuclear weapons makes me nervous. If in a couple of years the clerics are run out of power, then it would be different.

Maybe they could be offered the change: nuclear admission in exchange of nonreligious governement.

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2004-03-10 09:45am

To quote Phil Anselmo: "Fuck no!"

I'd rather wait for their social structure to change itself first, as they're just too bigoted, unpleasant and unstable at the moment to allow them WMDs without being willfully negligent of the outcomes that would likely arise. The general region would probably start thinking "oh shit, both israel and iran have them now, we need them too." Then it'd be something akin to the cold war only with a load of hot-headed middle eastern countries full of fundamentalists with israel right next door.

So no, not until they secularise themselves into a peaceful democracy.

Setzer · Post by **Setzer** » 2004-03-10 10:23am

Iran as it is just can't be trusted. Even if some Mullahs think that reform is inevitable, if they had nukes, they'd try to go out in a "blaze of glory".
If Iran could become a secular democratic nation, I'd think that conventional weapons are enough to defend itself. After all, the only two powers in the area with nukes are Israel and Pakistan, both allies of the US. War between one of them and a secular, rational Iran is unlikely in my opinion.

BoredShirtless · Post by **BoredShirtless** » 2004-03-10 10:53am

Setzer wrote:Iran as it is just can't be trusted. Even if some Mullahs think that reform is inevitable, if they had nukes, they'd try to go out in a "blaze of glory".

Hmmmm I don't know about that one. Don't you think they'd use them instead to try blackmailing the U.S. just like that terrorist from "True Lies"?

theski · Post by **theski** » 2004-03-10 11:50am

BS wrote

Hmmmm I don't know about that one. Don't you think they'd use them instead to try blackmailing the U.S. just like that terrorist from "True Lies"?

I have a feeling that having 1or2 nukes and trying to use them to blackmail, Would only turn that Country into a SHEET OF GLASS!!!

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-03-10 12:19pm

Comosicus wrote:
Col. Crackpot wrote:As mush as i am for pissing off Israel, the the thought of a fundamentalist Islamic theocracy armed with nuclear weapons makes me nervous. If in a couple of years the clerics are run out of power, then it would be different.
Maybe they could be offered the change: nuclear admission in exchange of nonreligious governement.

An offer like this, coming from the Bush Administration, would be rather ironic.

Seriously, what's the chance that they would actually use these weapons? A nation, unlike a shadowy terrorist group, is a big target that would suffer horribly from the inevitable counterstrike, and even an Islamic nutcase would undoubtedly know this.

The real reason that nobody wants Iran to enter the nuclear club is that they would become much more difficult to bully.

BoredShirtless · Post by **BoredShirtless** » 2004-03-10 02:14pm

theski wrote:BS wrote
Hmmmm I don't know about that one. Don't you think they'd use them instead to try blackmailing the U.S. just like that terrorist from "True Lies"?
I have a feeling that having 1or2 nukes and trying to use them to blackmail, Would only turn that Country into a SHEET OF GLASS!!!

Fuck yeah!!!!

theski · Post by **theski** » 2004-03-10 03:29pm

Idiot wrote

Eye Roll

Gosh you're biting sarcasm has wounded me deeply.... Please.. stop.....

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2004-03-10 04:01pm

The real reason that nobody wants Iran to enter the nuclear club is that they would become much more difficult to bully.

Its essentially rewarding an oppressive totalitarian theocracy for aggressive behavior.

BoredShirtless · Post by **BoredShirtless** » 2004-03-10 04:04pm

HemlockGrey wrote:
The real reason that nobody wants Iran to enter the nuclear club is that they would become much more difficult to bully.
Its essentially rewarding an oppressive totalitarian theocracy for aggressive behavior.

What aggressive behavior?

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-03-10 04:11pm

Nuclear weapons don't serve anything but aggressive purposes; designed to escalate aggression and competition between enemies.

We and the USSR proved this a long time ago.

BoredShirtless · Post by **BoredShirtless** » 2004-03-10 04:32pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Nuclear weapons don't serve anything but aggressive purposes; designed to escalate aggression and competition between enemies.

We and the USSR proved this a long time ago.

Oh come on dude. Every country which has an armed force and is spending money on improving it is behaving "aggressively" according to that logic. Do you have real examples of Iranian aggression?

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-03-10 04:40pm

How about nearly every foriegn policy move since the 70's revolution and the siezure of the Tehran Embassy?

BoredShirtless · Post by **BoredShirtless** » 2004-03-10 04:45pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:How about nearly every foriegn policy move since the 70's revolution and the siezure of the Tehran Embassy?

Such as?

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2004-03-10 06:30pm

My immediate, sarcastic response to the first post:

"Iran wants a nuclear club? Sure thing, let me warm up this Peacekeeper missile here..."

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-03-10 06:38pm

BoredShirtless wrote:What aggressive behavior?

DEATH TO AMERICA!
DEATH TO AMERICA!
DEATH TO AMERICA!

Perfectly peaceful and nonaggressive, don't you think?

Ma Deuce · Post by **Ma Deuce** » 2004-03-10 09:35pm

Darth Wong wrote: A nation, unlike a shadowy terrorist group, is a big target that would suffer horribly from the inevitable counterstrike, and even an Islamic nutcase would undoubtedly know this.

Sure, they would know... But this leads to another question: would they care?. Religeous fanatic scan be very unpredictable, especially Muslim ones, who have a nasty tendancy of being suicidal.

So my answer would be: No nukes for Iran until they have a more secular and trustworthy government. After that, I don't see why not...

tharkûn · Post by **tharkûn** » 2004-03-10 10:14pm

No, no, and hell no.

Let's make the not unreasonable assumption that within the command structure lurk fanatical elements. Let's suppose that by some means the government is going down the tubes and a 'secular' government is arising, again not unreasonable. Exactly what motive would such a fanatic have not to give the nukes to an extremist Islamicist group?

The government of Iran will never use nukes, nor likely give them away. However fanatical individuals in a position of failing power might give them away.

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-03-11 03:26am

Illuminatus Primus wrote:How about nearly every foriegn policy move since the 70's revolution and the siezure of the Tehran Embassy?

Revolution and the embassy? US' own fault. They were the ones who kicked out the democratically elected leader for being a GASP! filthy dirty socialist who wanted to remove the stranglehold of foreigners on Iran's oil, and replaced him with a worthless tyrant, the Shah. They reaped the whirlwind on that one.

Ma Deuce · Post by **Ma Deuce** » 2004-03-11 03:48am

Vympel wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote:How about nearly every foriegn policy move since the 70's revolution and the siezure of the Tehran Embassy?
Revolution and the embassy? US' own fault. They were the ones who kicked out the democratically elected leader for being a GASP! filthy dirty socialist who wanted to remove the stranglehold of foreigners on Iran's oil, and replaced him with a worthless tyrant, the Shah. They reaped the whirlwind on that one.

That does not excuse the behaviour and policies of the government that replaced the Shah...

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2004-03-11 05:22am

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Nuclear weapons don't serve anything but aggressive purposes; designed to escalate aggression and competition between enemies.

We and the USSR proved this a long time ago.

On the other hand, it forces two nuclear nations to exhaust all other options before resorting to a military solution, because they both know a misstep in using military force against each other could leave their populations decimated by nuclear fire.

You don't think the USA and USSR would have gone at it had it not been for the deterrant force of each other's nuclear arsenals?

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Iran demands entry to nuclear club

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