Zambia bans condom distribution to prevent 'immorality'

KrauserKrauser · Post by **KrauserKrauser** » 2004-03-16 05:55pm

So stay away from African chicks?

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2004-03-16 06:02pm

Oni Koneko Damien wrote:
In everything but transmitibility(sp?), I'd say HIV is kind of like influenza with a chainsaw, rapidly evolving, rapidly spreading, and almost always fatal.

I'd agree wholeheartedly. But then you have to admire how it uses one of the most primal urges of the human to transmit flawlessly.

KrauserKrauser wrote:So stay away from African chicks?

Or rather stay on the ball and don't have rampant free sex like they did 40 years ago. AIDS is one of the most painful and generally horrible ways to die and the only way to alleviate that suffering somewhat is to fork out £10k a year in drugs with daily treatments that can have some really nasty side-effects. Miss even one treament and it's all for nothing. They make sure you know that when you sign the dotted line.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-03-16 08:18pm

One of the big reasons we need to fight abstience-only and other regressive sexual attitudes which hurt education, prevention, and other methods in the fight against AIDS.

The Albino Raven · Post by **The Albino Raven** » 2004-03-16 08:44pm

Tribun wrote:They will all die, bur who cares?

You should care because Africa has a bunch of resources that this and other countries want. To let the entire population die isn't in our best interests.

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2004-03-16 09:29pm

All things considered, I really don't see a solution to this problem. Maybe they've been doomed for quite some time now...

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2004-03-16 09:39pm

Lazy Raptor wrote:All things considered, I really don't see a solution to this problem. Maybe they've been doomed for quite some time now...

Pretty much. You're not getting rid of HIV anytime soon (if ever).

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2004-03-16 11:01pm

darthdavid wrote:My reasons were stated. These people are morons. Half of them hate us when we try and help, the problem is too big to contain and our resources could be better used elsewhere. So let the ignorami die, let the terrorists die and fix the problem in places like russia, china etc while it still can be fixed there.

Stick to spamming in OT and A&P and stay the Hell out of my forum, you little shit. Actually, you know what? Just leave the board entirely. Yeah, that's definitely preferable.

The Albino Raven · Post by **The Albino Raven** » 2004-03-16 11:06pm

darthdavid wrote:My reasons were stated. These people are morons. Half of them hate us when we try and help, the problem is too big to contain and our resources could be better used elsewhere. So let the ignorami die, let the terrorists die and fix the problem in places like russia, china etc while it still can be fixed there.

Keeping in mind the above comment...Are you cracked? Not only do you exrapolate the titles of ignorami and terrorists to all Africans (fallacy) but you then suggest that we should fix the problem in russia and china even though in the same post you said the problem was too big. I hope your knee doesn't break your nose on a regular basis.

The Albino Raven · Post by **The Albino Raven** » 2004-03-16 11:08pm

Just curious, but does anyone have figures on growing AIDS rates in China, Africa, or Russia, and if so, is there any info on preventative measures in those countries?

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2004-03-16 11:10pm

A question: What will eventually happen here? Will the entire population of Sub-Saharan Africa just cease to exist, or will the current problem fester out of control forever? I mean will the population just continue to live short, disease ridden lives or will they eventually die off completely?

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2004-03-16 11:14pm

Fremen_Muhadib wrote:Just curious, but does anyone have figures on growing AIDS rates in China, Africa, or Russia, and if so, is there any info on preventative measures in those countries?

I don't have any figures on hand, but there was a BBC report on Russia, and the problem there is spreading like wildfire from the impression that I got. However it would be easier to stem in Russia with a good public education campaign from the government.

I wasn't sure if the transmition was purely on unprotected sex though. I think it might have also been due to drug use, sharing the needle.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2004-03-16 11:16pm

Lazy Raptor wrote:A question: What will eventually happen here? Will the entire population of Sub-Saharan Africa just cease to exist, or will the current problem fester out of control forever? I mean will the population just continue to live short, disease ridden lives or will they eventually die off completely?

I am not sure. Can AIDS decimate an entire region like this? Sure I think it can. Is somebody going to try and do something about it? I hope so.

This is just sad on so many levels. Just a short public education campaign about using a condom is all that is needed really. Fuckers.

Mayabird · Post by **Mayabird** » 2004-03-16 11:40pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:I would truly love to see the sick bastards that pull this off though since "immorality" is obviously a bigger threat than the largest biological danger to humanity in history.

Apparently 'tis better to die at a young age from a horrible disease leaving your young children orphaned and go to heaven than to live a long healthy life and be "immoral" and not go to their heaven.

Makes me think of James Watt on the environment, except this is the Zambian government on its own people. It's scary how fundies have absolutely no empathy for their fellow man or anything else, and only care about how good they want to look with their god after they die.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-03-16 11:41pm

Durandal wrote:Stick to spamming in OT and A&P and stay the Hell out of my forum, you little shit. Actually, you know what? Just leave the board entirely. Yeah, that's definitely preferable.

There's something to be said about the Durandal mod-strategy.

Keep up the good work.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2004-03-16 11:44pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:
Durandal wrote:Stick to spamming in OT and A&P and stay the Hell out of my forum, you little shit. Actually, you know what? Just leave the board entirely. Yeah, that's definitely preferable.
There's something to be said about the Durandal mod-strategy. Keep up the good work.

Stop kissing ass, maggot!

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-03-17 12:19am

Yessir!

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-03-17 04:57am

Crown wrote:This is just sad on so many levels. Just a short public education campaign about using a condom is all that is needed really. Fuckers.

The infrastructure simply isn't there for an effective public education campaign. We're talking about a part of the world where in many cases, entire villages have one telephone. AIDS is a disease which is perfectly primed to devastate a primitive region. A more advanced society can get the word out about how it is transmitted, how you can slow it down, and how you can get tests to see if you or a prospective partner have it. None of that exists in Africa.

I'm reminded of an article I read in National Geographic about an American doctor who diagnosed a man with kidney problems and recommended dialysis. The local attending doctor told the man to go home and say goodbye to his wife and children, because he was going to die. When our idealistic American doctor asked the African doctor what the hell he was doing, the local doctor laughed bitterly and said that there were perhaps a half-dozen men in the entire country who could afford kidney dialysis, and the man he just saw wasn't one of them.

Even if you tried, you couldn't design a place which was more ready for a plague than present-day Africa. No medical infrastructure, no public education infrastructure, and the most influential educators in large parts of the continent are Catholic missionaries who would rather have dead Christians than living Pagans.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2004-03-17 05:10am

There was just a bit in the news now during breakfast saying the number of AIDS sufferers in London is increasing dramatically. I also read an article the other day saying the rate of infection in Africa is going up again this year.

If you look at global figures for diagnosed infection around the world, they have been going up every year for over 20 years!

I can't say what will happen in Africa, they may just die out due to their own civil wars (the lucky ones) rather than succumb to AIDS. But the thing isn't slowing down when it comes to spreading (even in the West) and we've only time to see how it will affect us. The economic implications of sufferers off work and/or using expensive drugs is bad enough without the added death.

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2004-03-17 08:07am

As usual, Mike "hit's the nail right on the head" with this problem

Darth Wong wrote:
Crown wrote:This is just sad on so many levels. Just a short public education campaign about using a condom is all that is needed really. Fuckers.
The infrastructure simply isn't there for an effective public education campaign. We're talking about a part of the world where in many cases, entire villages have one telephone. AIDS is a disease which is perfectly primed to devastate a primitive region. A more advanced society can get the word out about how it is transmitted, how you can slow it down, and how you can get tests to see if you or a prospective partner have it. None of that exists in Africa.

I'm reminded of an article I read in National Geographic about an American doctor who diagnosed a man with kidney problems and recommended dialysis. The local attending doctor told the man to go home and say goodbye to his wife and children, because he was going to die. When our idealistic American doctor asked the African doctor what the hell he was doing, the local doctor laughed bitterly and said that there were perhaps a half-dozen men in the entire country who could afford kidney dialysis, and the man he just saw wasn't one of them.

Even if you tried, you couldn't design a place which was more ready for a plague than present-day Africa. No medical infrastructure, no public education infrastructure, and the most influential educators in large parts of the continent are Catholic missionaries who would rather have dead Christians than living Pagans.

This is just the latest symptom of a much larger problem.

Some members of the board are saying 'lots of resources, we have to save them' others are going 'they don't want the help and hate us' etc.

When the situation is clearly
"They lack both the will and the way"

There is probably no way to effectively educate them, with the speed needed, to prevent alot of needless death. Any serious disease rips through environments like that like a proverbal lightsaber through paper.

Now, I'll agree, the people that should be putting up a fight anyway are not doing an effective job, if at all (i.e missionary's and public officals in the countries in question), but in the end, that's there choice.

We have offered assistance, we have offered the know how, we have offered the solution.

They are not choosing to accept it. There's choice.

So, short of a massive, and incredibly expensive campaign to conquer Africa and force a massive industrial and standard of living revolution down there throats, there's not much we can do then keep up the preasure.

While I agree, from a humane standpoint, AIDS and STDS in africa and other areas of the world like that will be incredibly devestating, there's nothing we can reasonably do.

Hopefully, there at least would be positive long term effects come out of this. i.e eventually someone should develop immunity to the various diseases, political and social reform, etc.

It will be one hell of a high price, and it's one I do not pay gladly, but it's a price we have no choice but to pay.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2004-03-17 08:18am

You know that I actually met a girl who spent the last year in Tanzania working with relief agencies. From what I was able to tell this was a non religious agency as well.

I asked her what she was doing over there, and she basically said she was trying to help educate the population about the AIDS virus. When I asked her how, she responded the ABC's;

Abstainance
Be Faithfull
Condoms

That should have been my clue right there.

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2004-03-17 06:20pm

I hate to say it, but Africa really has fucked itself into oblivion, pun intended. I forsee the only way to deal with this now would be wait till enough die to viably seperate out the infected and not, alternatively, it's possible some humans will crop up that are naturally immune to HIV and we could exploit that.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2004-03-17 06:34pm

Rye wrote:I hate to say it, but Africa really has fucked itself into oblivion, pun intended. I forsee the only way to deal with this now would be wait till enough die to viably seperate out the infected and not, alternatively, it's possible some humans will crop up that are naturally immune to HIV and we could exploit that.

There already have been, check the Nairobi Prostitute Paradox for info.

Thing is, they developed AIDS two years after the report and made any research into their (related) immune systems pointless. It was likely a mutation that made an overactive immune system work doubly hard when semen entered the woman.

Julhelm · Post by **Julhelm** » 2004-03-17 06:48pm

That does blow

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2004-03-17 07:40pm

A recent study showed that those who pledge abstinence before marriage are just as likely to get STDs as those who have recreational sex, because they are so uninformed about condoms and the like.

Post by **Colonel Olrik** » 2004-03-17 07:44pm

DPDarkPrimus wrote:A recent study showed that those who pledge abstinence before marriage are just as likely to get STDs as those who have recreational sex, because they are so uninformed about condoms and the like.

? I find that very hard to believe. Linky?

Really, no sex, no need for condoms. The probability the person you marry has AIDS is pratically null.