Bush wants $25 Billion more for Iraq

[Durandal]

Fuck. I could've told you that. The college I've attended has done nothing but increase its costs, and the classes I've been parrt of have been pressured more than once by professors to write to congressmen asking for more.

Sometimes I wonder if Colleges ever understand the concept of thrift.

Neither colleges nor governments understand the concept of "cutting costs."

[Illuminatus Primus]

Shit and....shit?

Wow I'm inarticulate. If a mod comes by, could they remove that last "shit"?

[Crown]

Shit and....shit?

Wow I'm inarticulate. If a mod comes by, could they remove that last "shit"?

The post just above this one?

[Illuminatus Primus]

Aye, capt'n.

Done my good sir! ~ Crown

[Sea Skimmer]

The dawn of Sea Skimmer economics: Being indescribably in debt just means that you can spend more!

What, you think congress will ever do under any president what's necessary to get rid of that debt until there is no other choice but the economic collapse of the nation? Me neither. So we might as well bring the date forward.

[Stuart Mackey]

Fuck. I could've told you that. The college I've attended has done nothing but increase its costs, and the classes I've been parrt of have been pressured more than once by professors to write to congressmen asking for more.

Sometimes I wonder if Colleges ever understand the concept of thrift.

Neither colleges nor governments understand the concept of "cutting costs."

Come to New Zealand.... cutting costs is our middle name.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Will that deficit do anything or is being that much in debt okay for nations?

[Thinkmarble]

Will that deficit do anything or is being that much in debt okay for nations?

Accrodingly to my limited understanding of economics it will lead to two things.
1. raised interests rates
- government wants money
-> demand for money raises
-> supply stays the same/does not raise much
-> price for money raise

2. redistribution of wealth
In general high debt will lead to a redistribution of wealth from the lower/middle class to the upper class, especially if the cause of debt is cutting taxes for the rich.
The interests of paid for by every tax payer (either by increased taxes or worse services), but in general only the well off will lend money to the state.

[Joe]

2. redistribution of wealth
In general high debt will lead to a redistribution of wealth from the lower/middle class to the upper class, especially if the cause of debt is cutting taxes for the rich.
The interests of paid for by every tax payer (either by increased taxes or worse services), but in general only the well off will lend money to the state.

That's absolutely laughable. Tax cuts for the rich are not responsible for the accrual deficit, social programs are.

Will that deficit do anything or is being that much in debt okay for nations?

Good question. No hegemon in the history of the world has carried quite as much debt as the US; the truth is, we really don't know how it will go down in the end. But we can guess, and my guess is that it won't be good.

[TheDarkling]

That's absolutely laughable. Tax cuts for the rich are not responsible for the accrual deficit, social programs are.

No spending more than you earn is responsible, not a particular expense (be it for butter or guns) or a particular cut in income.

[Joe]

No spending more than you earn is responsible,

Huh?

not a particular expense (be it for butter or guns) or a particular cut in income.

It isn't an expense, it's an unfunded liability. Unfunded liabilites the size of the Social Security and Medicare deficits are irresponsible, period.

[Durandal]

The dawn of Sea Skimmer economics: Being indescribably in debt just means that you can spend more!

What, you think congress will ever do under any president what's necessary to get rid of that debt until there is no other choice but the economic collapse of the nation? Me neither. So we might as well bring the date forward.

So just run around building nation after nation until our economy collapses? Sounds like a wonderful idea, since my generation is going to have to end up dealing with it.

[Thinkmarble]

No spending more than you earn is responsible,

Huh?

You have a tax revenue of x, when you spend more then x you have to borrow money, if you spend less then x you don't.

And you utterly missed my point.

[TheDarkling]

Huh?

Is responsible for the deficit.

It isn't an expense, it's an unfunded liability. Unfunded liabilities the size of the Social Security and Medicare deficits are irresponsible, period.

Which is why you should put money aside for them and then keep that money aside instead of raiding it to pay for things in the short term. Even if we don't take into account what the US is missing from a theoretical trust fund (its long term liabilities) its borrowing (short term liabilities) is still too high.

[TheDarkling]

I should note that when I call the governments actual deficit (public borrowing) a short term deficit I mean that it is actually one that exists in the now not because it is actually funded through short term financial instruments (which of course it isn't) i.e. it is a current liability not a future one (to put it in a household context, one is a loan and the other money I will need when I retire). The US could just freeze current social program spending (i.e. each recipient gets less money but the overall program budget remains the same) and the budget deficit would still be increasing and still be at problematic levels (as it is the $ relies far too much on its captured oil market, if that were to go the $ would be devalued with worrying results for the US economy).

[Admiral Valdemar]

The dawn of Sea Skimmer economics: Being indescribably in debt just means that you can spend more!

What, you think congress will ever do under any president what's necessary to get rid of that debt until there is no other choice but the economic collapse of the nation? Me neither. So we might as well bring the date forward.

So just run around building nation after nation until our economy collapses? Sounds like a wonderful idea, since my generation is going to have to end up dealing with it.

All those trillions, doesn't sound they're doing anything anyway.

Which leads on to my next theoretical economics question; what is the limit, if any, before the US has to do something or die a death?

[TheDarkling]

All those trillions, doesn't sound they're doing anything anyway.

Which leads on to my next theoretical economics question; what is the limit, if any, before the US has to do something or die a death?

The US can continue to do it until the first person decides they aren't an attractive investment, at which point things will begin to snowball (perception having a large effect on economics). The US will in turn have to take measures to make themselves attractive but they all come with problems of their own.

[HemlockGrey]

During that time we have reduced our national debt...from ten million ducats to six million?.. and now our foreign trade runs at another ten millions...In addition we have 45 galleys at sea...If you continue in this wise, your prosperity will increase further and all the gold of Christendom will be yours. But refrain, as you would from a fire, from taking what belongs to others or making unjust wars, for in such errors God will not support princes. Your battles with the Turk have made your valour and seamanship renowned; you have six admirals, with able commanders and trained crews enough for a hundred galleys; you have ambassadors and administrators in quantity, doctors in divers sciences, especially that of the law, to whom foreigners flock for consultations and judgements...

Beware, then, lest the city decline. Take care over the choice of my successor, for much good or much evil can result from your decision...many, however, incline towards Messer Francesco Foscari, not knowing him for a vainglorious braggart, vapid and light-headed, snatching at everything but achieving little. If he becomes Doge you will find yourselves constantly at war; he who now has ten thousand ducats will be reduced to one thousand; he who possesses two houses will no longer have one; you will waste, with your gold and silver, your honour and your reputation. Where now you are the masters, you will become the slaves of your men-at-arms and captains.

You Venetians, it is certain, are very wrong to disturb the peace of other states rather than to rest content with the most splendid state of Italy...If you knew how you are universally hated, your hair would stand on end?..Do you believe that the powers of Italy, now in league together, are truly friends among themselves? Of course they are not; it is only necessity, and the fear which they feel for you and your power, that has bound them in this way?.You are alone, with all the world against you, not only in Italy but beyond the Alps also. Know then that your enemies do not sleep. Take good counsel, for, by God, you need it?.

Prophetic words then as now.

[MKSheppard]

So just run around building nation after nation until our economy collapses?

No, nation building aid is the foreign aid budget. This is to cover costs
for our massive troop deployment in Iraq. Building all new bases, driving
Abrams tanks around, Apaches, shooting people isn't cheap. At least he's willing to fund it, rather than force the Military to bite the bullet and kill
training programs and maintenance to pay for the deployments in Iraq.

Sounds like a wonderful idea, since my generation is going to have to end up dealing with it.

Short of a massive thermonuclear war killing 60% of the US population,
anything is possible to be dealt with. Besides, $25 billion is nothing compared to the god damn baby boomers demanding their social
security.

[Sea Skimmer]

So just run around building nation after nation until our economy collapses? Sounds like a wonderful idea, since my generation is going to have to end up dealing with it.

Your generation is the same as mine.

[MKSheppard]

Your generation is the same as mine.

Mine too.

[Stuart Mackey]

Your generation is the same as mine.

Mine too.

And the three of you are fucked together

[MKSheppard]

And the three of you are fucked together

No, we'll just launch WW3 to cement american dominance of the world
by simply knocking everyone back so far so that american GNP is once
again over 50% of the world's total GNP

[Stuart Mackey]

And the three of you are fucked together

No, we'll just launch WW3 to cement american dominance of the world
by simply knocking everyone back so far so that american GNP is once
again over 50% of the world's total GNP

Well, 50 percent of jack is still 50 percent of shite.

[MKSheppard]

Well, 50 percent of jack is still 50 percent of shite.

Release the B-70Ds.....