It's 12:00. Do you know where John Kerry is?

[HemlockGrey]

From one of his ads it seems like he supports healthcare reform and some sort of nationalized healthcare system. That sounds good.

[desertjedi]

uh... partying it up in the Hamptons?

[Alyrium Denryle]

whta exactly are the libertarians?

The libertarians are a political party that beleives in limited government. By limited, I mean keeping government restricted to its powers that are specifically spelled out in the constitution.

http://www.lp.org/

[LadyTevar]

Do you mean "candidates with a realistic chance of winning?"

Are there smaller candidates with no chance winning who also contest but we the people in other countries dont hear of them ?

Yes. Yes there are. Hundreds, in fact. I shit you not. Most of them are running as true independents (and are mostly nutjobs) and will only get a handful of votes. However, there are organized third parties (Libertarian, Green, Constitution Party) that actually pull a sizeable number of votes, just not enough to win. George Washington was not a member of any political party, and there is no provision in law that says that the President must come from one of two major parties. That's just the way public opinion falls all the time.

Since the early 1900's, there's been a two-party system. That's four generations, folks, more than enough to count as Tradition. And you know what the average person thinks about Tradition. (don't fuck with Tradition)

[Chardok]

See sig. Click sig. Have a nice day.

[Stravo]

At this point I would rather vote for a man that stands for nothing than a man that stands for what Bush is peddling. I have never been this disgusted with an administration in all my life. (And I was around during the Carter administration)

[Durandal]

As Mark in Fast Times wrote, "An empty suit is better than a pile of shit with a neck-tie."

[Natorgator]

I'm starting this thread because I honestly don't know why the hell I should vote for John Kerry. "He's not Bush," to me, is not sufficient reason to select him as the candidate to whom I entrust my vote, and while I disagree with him on the little nitty-gritty campaign ideals that all candidates put forth (ie. his plan on community service and such), but I don't know where he stands on the BIG issues--the ones that count. So, if anyone has any John Kerry sightings they wish to discuss, where he reveals his plans for the future of America, please post them here.

In all seriousness, have you checked his website?

John Kerry's website
On the Issues

He doesn't seem that bad to me. I kinda like him, actually.

[SirNitram]

whta exactly are the libertarians?

The libertarians are a political party that beleives in limited government. By limited, I mean keeping government restricted to its powers that are specifically spelled out in the constitution.

http://www.lp.org/

I really don't get this. Does the Libertarian party just ignore that the world has changed in the past two hundred years, or is it the silly mantra of 'Privatization makes everything better' that was so beautifully shown to prevent any power outages that would shut down the entire northeast for several days?

[Durandal]

In response to the question of the thread title, I'll echo Homer Simpson upon being asked by the TV, "It's 11:00; do you know where your children are?"

I told you yesterday, no!

[Alyrium Denryle]

whta exactly are the libertarians?

The libertarians are a political party that beleives in limited government. By limited, I mean keeping government restricted to its powers that are specifically spelled out in the constitution.

http://www.lp.org/

I really don't get this. Does the Libertarian party just ignore that the world has changed in the past two hundred years, or is it the silly mantra of 'Privatization makes everything better' that was so beautifully shown to prevent any power outages that would shut down the entire northeast for several days?

WHich is why a few regulations do need to be in place. The roblem is when they become excessive as to prevent the growth of business.

[SirNitram]

The libertarians are a political party that beleives in limited government. By limited, I mean keeping government restricted to its powers that are specifically spelled out in the constitution.

http://www.lp.org/

I really don't get this. Does the Libertarian party just ignore that the world has changed in the past two hundred years, or is it the silly mantra of 'Privatization makes everything better' that was so beautifully shown to prevent any power outages that would shut down the entire northeast for several days?

WHich is why a few regulations do need to be in place. The roblem is when they become excessive as to prevent the growth of business.

Therein lies the problem: You consider the point to stop putting regulations in place when they inhibit growth, instead of using them to improve quality of life. This is off-topic, but at least stop and think about the abuses there.

[m112880]

the reason why I like Bush is becasue he say what he means and he sticks by them. Oh Yea Vote for McCain.

[Master of Ossus]

Therein lies the problem: You consider the point to stop putting regulations in place when they inhibit growth, instead of using them to improve quality of life. This is off-topic, but at least stop and think about the abuses there.

But that's a strawman, since the Libertarians believe that the regulations should ALWAYS be used or disused to promote quality of life for citizens. The difference is that they recognize that over-regulations can actually DAMAGE quality of life by inhibiting proper economic activity.

[Master of Ossus]

In all seriousness, have you checked his website?

[snip urls]

He doesn't seem that bad to me. I kinda like him, actually.

I've perused his website, but try as I might I didn't find any plans in the hour-and-a-half I spent looking. I saw LOTS of campaign promises (ie. stopping the unethical outsourcing to foreign countries, creating millions of jobs, etc.), but I couldn't actually find how he's going to do all that. The best he managed were vague "take on special interest groups using courage" type things that really aren't remotely informative.

[CrimsonRaine]

*Points to sig*

There is no reason to vote for Kerry, because he doesnt even pick an actual stance on issues. He is trying to be everything to everyone, and it isnt going to work. I have friends who are normally liberal who are voting bush, simply because they at least know where that douchbag stands.

Very true. This is the reasons why I'm voting Independant. I don't want to add to the mass of stupidity that we have running for this country. They are both unqualified for the Presidency.

'Raince

[Hamel]

Therein lies the problem: You consider the point to stop putting regulations in place when they inhibit growth, instead of using them to improve quality of life. This is off-topic, but at least stop and think about the abuses there.

But that's a strawman, since the Libertarians believe that the regulations should ALWAYS be used or disused to promote quality of life for citizens. The difference is that they recognize that over-regulations can actually DAMAGE quality of life by inhibiting proper economic activity.

Bullshit it's a strawman. At one point in time, the LP's website had this to say at the now-dead url:

Consequently, we oppose any government attempts to regulate private discrimination, including choices and preferences, in employment, housing, and privately owned businesses. The right to trade includes the right not to trade -- for any reasons whatsoever; the right of association includes the right not to associate, for exercise of the right depends upon mutual consent.

You will find this passage at a number of Libertarian party websites, including the New Jersy site. That shows how fucking ridiculous their stance on regulations is.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Why? WHy should I be forced to allow someone I do not like to work for me? It is my damn property and if I want to discriminate that is my business. It is a double edged sword however. Consumers are also allowed to boycott establishments that discriminate.

And the Jim Crow Laws were legally mandated, the owners of restaraunts themselves didnt even have a choice.

[Master of Ossus]

Consequently, we oppose any government attempts to regulate private discrimination, including choices and preferences, in employment, housing, and privately owned businesses. The right to trade includes the right not to trade -- for any reasons whatsoever; the right of association includes the right not to associate, for exercise of the right depends upon mutual consent.

And that disproves my point exactly how? Economists realize that discrimination from a business' managers is the LEAST IMPORTANT form of discrimination, and almost all of them agree that the government shouldn't bother with it because the costs of government regulation in that field inevitably exceed the virtually insignificant benefits of doing so.

Moreover, what's wrong with their beliefs in association and trade?

[SirNitram]

Perhaps the Libertarian supporters should look to where it says 'Any government attempt'. Not just those that, according to MoO, would be overregulating. There is no division made between those regulations that would help or hurt; all are flatly opposed that that statement.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Look at it this way, where, exactly, and what kind of, regulations could be in place that would not harm someone?

Hell, even the requirement for people to have a cosmetolgy liscence threatens little children braiding hair for a dollar(and yes, the government has stepped in to stop just that activity)

[SirNitram]

Look at it this way, where, exactly, and what kind of, regulations could be in place that would not harm someone?

Hell, even the requirement for people to have a cosmetolgy liscence threatens little children braiding hair for a dollar(and yes, the government has stepped in to stop just that activity)

Wow, this is painfully stupid. So we shouldn't even require businesses to maintain powerlines, despite the fact we've seen what happens when they aren't maintained?

[Alyrium Denryle]

Look at it this way, where, exactly, and what kind of, regulations could be in place that would not harm someone?

Hell, even the requirement for people to have a cosmetolgy liscence threatens little children braiding hair for a dollar(and yes, the government has stepped in to stop just that activity)

Wow, this is painfully stupid. So we shouldn't even require businesses to maintain powerlines, despite the fact we've seen what happens when they aren't maintained?

Um.. they maintain powerlines because f they dont people dont recieve and dont pay for, electricity. I have no looked into the new york blackout per'se but but that is an efficiency issue. But if you are willing to pay the extra cost for utilities for the redundant systems, be my guest.

However, the market demands low prices and in order to rach thse prices and maintain financial solvency, they would ahve to minimize a few things. Like redundant systems

Basically, shit happens. If we regulate the fuck out of them, the cost of electricity rises. WHich is something at least I as a consumer, do not want.

[Alyrium Denryle]

*damn typos, could a mod please fix those, and then delete this post?*

[SirNitram]

Look at it this way, where, exactly, and what kind of, regulations could be in place that would not harm someone?

Hell, even the requirement for people to have a cosmetolgy liscence threatens little children braiding hair for a dollar(and yes, the government has stepped in to stop just that activity)

Wow, this is painfully stupid. So we shouldn't even require businesses to maintain powerlines, despite the fact we've seen what happens when they aren't maintained?

Um.. they maintain powerlines because f they dont people dont recieve and dont pay for, electricity. I have no looked into the new york blackout per'se but but that is an efficiency issue. But if you are willing to pay the extra cost for utilities for the redundant systems, be my guest.

So the complete disruption of several states and everything in them is an 'efficiency issue' to you. Do you realize how ridiculously stupid you sound currently? Doesn't matter if anyone is injured or dies as a result(A very real possibility, given many of today's cities), it's just efficiency! It'll be corrected by the Magic Hand Of The Free Market! Except it isn't.

Basically, shit happens. If we regulate the fuck out of them, the cost of electricity rises. WHich is something at least I as a consumer, do not want.

I, as a consumer with a fully functional cranium, do not want the power to go out over several states because of 'efficiency issues', when one power company feels like cutting costs.