Construction begins tomorrow on replacement for Twin Towers.

[darthdavid]

Fuck that shit. It looks like ass. Next time it won't be terrorist's flying the planes, it will be architects.

[kojikun]

Its a bad attempt at hightech structuralism without actually succeeding. If it didnt have the stupid spire, and the scaffolding was solid building. it would be a nice building.

[JME2]

Stupid, design stupid waste of money, stupid patriotic fervor...

Might as well put up a big fucking sign that says "Terrorists - Strike Here!"

[salm]

Holy shit, you should go on Jeopardy or something, what with that incredible intellect of yours.

what the hell is wrong with you, you fucking asshole? are you off your meds?

Why the fuck should we do that?

guess what, moron. one thing can be used as two things at the same time. isen´t that teh c00lness?

the building itself is suitet perfectly to serve as a memorial itself while also serving as regular office building. no need for a small memorial inside the building, dumbass.

Jesus Christ you're an idiot. Just because you don't fixate on something every minute of every day doesn't mean you don't remember it.

you won´t fixate on it every day if you walk past it if it´s different from the old one either, dumbfuck. you will take notice when seeing pictures or movies wtih the old one. try reading what i´m actually saying, not what you think i´m saying.

Did they turn Pearl Harbor into a giant memorial after the attack? No, they went back and continued to use it as a naval base. Do people not remember Pearl Harbor? Were those who died there considered "not important" enough to be remembered?

wow, you´re ignorant. the memorial for deads of the U.S.S. Arizona alone is a building over 180 feet long you dumbfuck.
just because runways and harbor facilites are unsuitable to serve as memorials doesn´t mean that a building in the heart of new york is.

[Darth Wong]

So they're going to build a twisted funhouse-mirror building, combining the irregular angles of nature with the sharp edges and flat surfaces of traditional skyscrapers in order to get the worst of both worlds and create a new exemplar of ugliness? Wonderful. That thing is absolutely hideous, and the more closely you look at it, the more hideous it is. The stupid-looking "we didn't quite finish the rendering on our 3DStudioMax model" scaffolding on top is bad enough, but the whole building just looks like shit from the ground up, thanks to that horrible twisting effect.

And what about the name? Freedom Tower? Fucking FREEDOM TOWER?

WHY DOES EVERY GODDAMNED THING IN THE US SINCE 9/11 NEED TO HAVE THE FUCKING WORD "FREEDOM" IN IT?

[Wicked Pilot]

You're not opposed to freedom are you?

Excuse me while I call the authorities.

[Ravenwing]

WHY DOES EVERY GODDAMNED THING IN THE US SINCE 9/11 NEED TO HAVE THE FUCKING WORD "FREEDOM" IN IT?

maybe if everyone repeats it enough times they may start to believe it exists

[JME2]

WHY DOES EVERY GODDAMNED THING IN THE US SINCE 9/11 NEED TO HAVE THE FUCKING WORD "FREEDOM" IN IT?

Because the 1950's are back from a certain POV, where there is always a foe out there ready to strike America and the country must reinforce its moral, democratic, and corporate superiority to combat it and have faith in, this case, an idiot who stole the election.

Come on Kerry; get us back on the right track.

[Durandal]

I want the new towers exactly like the old ones, just twice as big. I also like this design too.

http://www.uweb.ucsb.edu/~jkeenley/cdem ... small).jpg

Am I the only one who thinks that this joke is old, stale and needs to be retired?

[Companion Cube]

The whole 'Broken glass' appearance is pretty unfortunate. Unless it's deliberate, in which case it seems tacky.

[JME2]

I want the new towers exactly like the old ones, just twice as big. I also like this design too.

http://www.uweb.ucsb.edu/~jkeenley/cdem ... small).jpg

Am I the only one who thinks that this joke is old, stale and needs to be retired?

Never!

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

I want the new towers exactly like the old ones, just twice as big. I also like this design too.

http://www.uweb.ucsb.edu/~jkeenley/cdem ... small).jpg

Am I the only one who thinks that this joke is old, stale and needs to be retired?

Yup.

And think of all the extra office space!

[Howedar]

what the hell is wrong with you, you fucking asshole? are you off your meds?

Stupid people piss me off.

guess what, moron. one thing can be used as two things at the same time. isen´t that teh c00lness?

I reiterate: Why the fuck do we need the entire building to be a memorial?

Move the fuck on, for crying out loud. Nobody is going to forget, you don't need to fixate on tragedy to keep it in people's minds.

the building itself is suitet perfectly to serve as a memorial itself while also serving as regular office building. no need for a small memorial inside the building, dumbass.

Why can't you let the building just be a building?

you won´t fixate on it every day if you walk past it if it´s different from the old one either, dumbfuck. you will take notice when seeing pictures or movies wtih the old one. try reading what i´m actually saying, not what you think i´m saying.

Actually, you say that rebuilding the old buildings "you basicly take a piss on the dead folks because you apparantly don´t consider them important enough to be remembered".

wow, you´re ignorant. the memorial for deads of the U.S.S. Arizona alone is a building over 180 feet long you dumbfuck.

Wow you're ignorant, that's a 180 foot memorial on a base that is several square miles.

And you want to use the entire area as a memorial in NYC.

just because runways and harbor facilites are unsuitable to serve as memorials doesn´t mean that a building in the heart of new york is.

You still haven't answered the question: why can't you let a building be a building? Why do you have to make it a memorial? You'd be dooming the entire area to a lifetime of living in the past.

[Perinquus]

So they're going to build a twisted funhouse-mirror building, combining the irregular angles of nature with the sharp edges and flat surfaces of traditional skyscrapers in order to get the worst of both worlds and create a new exemplar of ugliness? Wonderful. That thing is absolutely hideous, and the more closely you look at it, the more hideous it is. The stupid-looking "we didn't quite finish the rendering on our 3DStudioMax model" scaffolding on top is bad enough, but the whole building just looks like shit from the ground up, thanks to that horrible twisting effect.

That's what happens when you let somethign be designed by committee. Too many witches spoil the brew, as the saying goes. You try to please everyone, and end up with something that no one likes. It's far better to let a few talented individuals submit designs, pick the best of them, and then don't let people fuck with it. But then, if anything was ever destined to be politicized to the nth degree, you know it was the building of the replacements for the World Trade Center.

[Perinquus]

WHY DOES EVERY GODDAMNED THING IN THE US SINCE 9/11 NEED TO HAVE THE FUCKING WORD "FREEDOM" IN IT?

Because the 1950's are back from a certain POV, where there is always a foe out there ready to strike America and the country must reinforce its moral, democratic, and corporate superiority to combat it and have faith in, this case, an idiot who stole the election.

Waaaaaaaaah!!!

Come on Kerry; get us back on the right track.

You know, I am certainly not blind to Bush's faults. He's blundered so badly that I think he will probably lose the election. His lack of restraint on spending is execrable, and I am furious at his pandering on the illegal immigration issue. He's the least satisfactory Republican president since Herbert Hoover. But this is ridiculous. You are one of those people who seem so consumed by a bitter and all encompassing hatred of Bush that it passes far beyond reason. You want to blame him for everything, whether it makes any sense or not. It looks almost as though there is not a single ill current in America for which someone is not willing to blame George W. Bush. As if any president had that much influence. Bush, so far as we know, had not the slightest thing to do with naming this building. Nor can anyone attribute directly to him many of the other vast array of things which have had the word freedom used in their names since 9/11/01. But it's Bush's fault dammit! And the best you can offer as proof of this is to squawk about some vague climate of jingoism and self justification, and assert, again without proof, that Bush is responsible for it.

There's a gang problem in America. It's Bush's fault. Teenage pregnancy is still a problem. It's Bush's fault. Interest rates are going up. It's Bush's fault. We're paying too much for gasoline. It's Bush's fault. People are abusing the welfare system. It's Bush's fault. My boss hates me and doesn't pay me what I'm worth. It's Bush's fault. Stalin didn't live up to the promises he made at Yalta. It's Bush's fault. And they're building an ugly building in New York, and giving it a rather tiresome name. And yep, it's Bush's fault.

[Admiral Valdemar]

I want the new towers exactly like the old ones, just twice as big. I also like this design too.

http://www.uweb.ucsb.edu/~jkeenley/cdem ... small).jpg

Am I the only one who thinks that this joke is old, stale and needs to be retired?

Nope. Sorry, Einy, but the horse has been flogged into soup.

Oh and someone restrain Mike, we wouldn't want Ashcroft and his cronies to haul him off to the camp where 100% purebreed, pro-American people will never end up. Because if you're not having freedom rays shine out of your arse, you're anti-America and anti-democracy blah, blah, blah...

I still wish they'd either gone with the original towers or something not so obviously industrial, some of the nice curvy skyscrapers being started on in London look nice and a good contrast against the older, more industrial buildings.

I need to ask an uncle about this, he's got an architecture degree and I want at least one person from the field to say it's craptacular.

[kojikun]

Valdy: I actually like the industrial look. But this aint it, this is the fucked up look. Take the Lloyds Building, or anything else by Richard Rogers, or the Hong Kong and Shanghai Bank by Norman Foster. There's also a certain allure from Asian, and particularly Chinese, skyscrapers. Two International Finance Center is elegant, as is CITIC Plaza and to a lesser extent. Jin Mao Tower, and Central Plaza (bonus points to Central Plaza for the neon that lines the building).

[kojikun]

Oh, Singapore's Republic Plaza is also quite cool.

[Morilore]

You know, I am certainly not blind to Bush's faults. He's blundered so badly that I think he will probably lose the election. His lack of restraint on spending is execrable, and I am furious at his pandering on the illegal immigration issue. He's the least satisfactory Republican president since Herbert Hoover. But this is ridiculous. You are one of those people who seem so consumed by a bitter and all encompassing hatred of Bush that it passes far beyond reason. You want to blame him for everything, whether it makes any sense or not. It looks almost as though there is not a single ill current in America for which someone is not willing to blame George W. Bush. As if any president had that much influence. Bush, so far as we know, had not the slightest thing to do with naming this building. Nor can anyone attribute directly to him many of the other vast array of things which have had the word freedom used in their names since 9/11/01. But it's Bush's fault dammit! And the best you can offer as proof of this is to squawk about some vague climate of jingoism and self justification, and assert, again without proof, that Bush is responsible for it.

There's a gang problem in America. It's Bush's fault. Teenage pregnancy is still a problem. It's Bush's fault. Interest rates are going up. It's Bush's fault. We're paying too much for gasoline. It's Bush's fault. People are abusing the welfare system. It's Bush's fault. My boss hates me and doesn't pay me what I'm worth. It's Bush's fault. Stalin didn't live up to the promises he made at Yalta. It's Bush's fault. And they're building an ugly building in New York, and giving it a rather tiresome name. And yep, it's Bush's fault.

I like how the only mention of Bush in the post you are replying to is that he is "an idiot who stole the election" and you immediately embark on this rant accusing JME2 of being "one of those people who seem so consumed by a bitter and all encompassing hatred of Bush that it passes far beyond reason."

Did it occur to you reading that post that JME2 was not, in fact, trying to Bush for the alleged insanities? Did it occur to you that he only mentioned that he hoped Kerry would "get us back on the right track," and this sentence, does not, in fact, reference Bush at all?

Honestly, I have yet to personally meet anyone who thinks that way about Bush.

[Perinquus]

You know, I am certainly not blind to Bush's faults. He's blundered so badly that I think he will probably lose the election. His lack of restraint on spending is execrable, and I am furious at his pandering on the illegal immigration issue. He's the least satisfactory Republican president since Herbert Hoover. But this is ridiculous. You are one of those people who seem so consumed by a bitter and all encompassing hatred of Bush that it passes far beyond reason. You want to blame him for everything, whether it makes any sense or not. It looks almost as though there is not a single ill current in America for which someone is not willing to blame George W. Bush. As if any president had that much influence. Bush, so far as we know, had not the slightest thing to do with naming this building. Nor can anyone attribute directly to him many of the other vast array of things which have had the word freedom used in their names since 9/11/01. But it's Bush's fault dammit! And the best you can offer as proof of this is to squawk about some vague climate of jingoism and self justification, and assert, again without proof, that Bush is responsible for it.

There's a gang problem in America. It's Bush's fault. Teenage pregnancy is still a problem. It's Bush's fault. Interest rates are going up. It's Bush's fault. We're paying too much for gasoline. It's Bush's fault. People are abusing the welfare system. It's Bush's fault. My boss hates me and doesn't pay me what I'm worth. It's Bush's fault. Stalin didn't live up to the promises he made at Yalta. It's Bush's fault. And they're building an ugly building in New York, and giving it a rather tiresome name. And yep, it's Bush's fault.

I like how the only mention of Bush in the post you are replying to is that he is "an idiot who stole the election" and you immediately embark on this rant accusing JME2 of being "one of those people who seem so consumed by a bitter and all encompassing hatred of Bush that it passes far beyond reason."

Did it occur to you reading that post that JME2 was not, in fact, trying to Bush for the alleged insanities? Did it occur to you that he only mentioned that he hoped Kerry would "get us back on the right track," and this sentence, does not, in fact, reference Bush at all?

Honestly, I have yet to personally meet anyone who thinks that way about Bush.

Yes, I noticed it. But how do imagine that Kerry can put us "back on the right track", unless you think Bush put us on the wrong one? You can only think that if you imagine the president to have such a sweeping influence on broad cultural trends - like this trend of tacking the word "freedom" onto all sorts of things. Bollocks. It's like everyone wanting to blame the president for the state of the economy, when any economist will tell you that any policies a president may put into effect will have, at best, a limited effect. People have a great tendencey to overestimate the influence a president has over all sorts of things, and this is a prime example. And it's also a prime example of someone whose antipathy for Bush is so great that he can take virtually any subject, and use it as an excuse to speak ill of George W. Bush, even when Bush hasn't the remotest connection to the subject. Now what sort of person does that, unless he's fixated on a target in such wise? That's what makes me think JME2 is one of those people who will blame Bush for anything. That and his referring to Bush as "an idiot who stole the election". Yes, I'm clearly on an unjustified rant. It's not obvious in any way, at all, that JME2 does, in fact, hate Bush.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Valdy: I actually like the industrial look. But this aint it, this is the fucked up look. Take the Lloyds Building, or anything else by Richard Rogers, or the Hong Kong and Shanghai Bank by Norman Foster. There's also a certain allure from Asian, and particularly Chinese, skyscrapers. Two International Finance Center is elegant, as is CITIC Plaza and to a lesser extent. Jin Mao Tower, and Central Plaza (bonus points to Central Plaza for the neon that lines the building).

Oh I was just saying it was nice to see, say, the "Gherkin" or Swiss Re skyscraper as a nice change. But that by no means says I dislike the obviously mechanical looks of Canary Wharf or the HSBC and BT towers over more organic looking buildings. Though I have to agree with earlier statements that NYC seems a more rustic city that looks more like a Victorian city than try and become a more flashy looking one with this new... abomination. To say it contrasts is a gross understatement. It simply wouldn't benefit from some of the ideas that are being proposed for London, Beijing and Tokyo etc.

[Wicked Pilot]

Another view for those of you interested:

[Aeolus]

I guess I am the only one here who likes that "glass shard" look. I think it looks a lot better than the old twin towers

[Morilore]

Yes, I noticed it. But how do imagine that Kerry can put us "back on the right track", unless you think Bush put us on the wrong one? You can only think that if you imagine the president to have such a sweeping influence on broad cultural trends - like this trend of tacking the word "freedom" onto all sorts of things. Bollocks. It's like everyone wanting to blame the president for the state of the economy, when any economist will tell you that any policies a president may put into effect will have, at best, a limited effect.

Agreed, or at least, not disputed.

People have a great tendencey to overestimate the influence a president has over all sorts of things, and this is a prime example. And it's also a prime example of someone whose antipathy for Bush is so great that he can take virtually any subject, and use it as an excuse to speak ill of George W. Bush, even when Bush hasn't the remotest connection to the subject. Now what sort of person does that, unless he's fixated on a target in such wise? That's what makes me think JME2 is one of those people who will blame Bush for anything. That and his referring to Bush as "an idiot who stole the election". Yes, I'm clearly on an unjustified rant. It's not obvious in any way, at all, that JME2 does, in fact, hate Bush.

Let's examine the post from which you derive indignation.

Because the 1950's are back from a certain POV, where there is always a foe out there ready to strike America and the country must reinforce its moral, democratic, and corporate superiority to combat it and have faith in, this case, an idiot who stole the election.

Come on Kerry; get us back on the right track.

Okay, I understand that he's making a mistake assuming Kerry has the ability to get America "back on the right track." What I don't understand is how anything here gives the implication that JME2 is one of those hypothetical rabid foaming-at-the-mouth Bush haters I keep hearing about, but never see. Yes, he speaks rather disparagingly of him, calling him an "idiot" and an election-thief. Others have said the same things without having Bush-rabies. To help you understand this, here is a hypothetical post by someone who would, in my mind, be justly diagnosed with Bush-rabies:

The reason everything has the word "freedom" in it is because Bush is trying to bring back the 1950's in order control the American people. So he started this trend of naming everything after a patriotic concept, so that everywhere everyone looks, they will be reminded that America is Number One, and if you disagree with anything that fucking autocrat election-thief says, you are a traitor. Only Kerry can save us now. Of course, given Bush's track record, it's entirely possible the "votes" have already been counted.

Bush

[Perinquus]

Okay, I understand that he's making a mistake assuming Kerry has the ability to get America "back on the right track." What I don't understand is how anything here gives the implication that JME2 is one of those hypothetical rabid foaming-at-the-mouth Bush haters I keep hearing about, but never see.

You've never read many of the posts over at the democratic underground, have you?

Yes, he speaks rather disparagingly of him, calling him an "idiot" and an election-thief. Others have said the same things without having Bush-rabies.

But why take the opportunity to raise that issue in a thread that hasn't the remotest connection to Bush in the world? That's an excellent sign of fixation on a topic or issue, when you feel compelled to steer the conversation in a completely unnecessary and irrelevant direction. It's kind of like my maternal grandmother. You can't have a conversation with her that lasts beyond about 15-20 minutes without her steering it into a discussion about The Lord. That's because she's religious as hell, and she's pretty much fixated on that issue.