Parents of Murdered Child Call for Ban on "Manhunt"

Cao Cao · Post by **Cao Cao** » 2004-07-29 05:01pm

I think even in a moment of greif people would do better than to blame the first thing they see as that's always lead to tragic mistakes.
But it's human nature after all.
But then those idiot stores go an remove that game from their shelves. That is just a foolish kneejerk reaction.

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2004-07-29 05:46pm

Zac Naloen wrote:How many people have played this game?

How many have claimed it made them want to kill...?

I rest my case.

I've played it. Found it boring and repetative.

And according to todays Daily Express the guy was found with cannabis and gave this in his statement:

"Everything went black. I didn't intend to kill him at first, but when i saw the blood i just let go and hit more times."

I'm sure a computer game gave him that problem

And then there's the question of why a 17 year old has an 18 rated video game.

And on a related note several high street chains in the UK have taken Manhunt off the shelves.

Dorsk 81 · Post by **Dorsk 81** » 2004-07-29 06:07pm

2000AD wrote:And on a related note several high street chains in the UK have taken Manhunt off the shelves.

Yep, that's what the second link went to, I think Dixions and Game took it off, not sure who else, and apparently Play.com have sold out of it according to a friend of mine.

Jade Falcon · Post by **Jade Falcon** » 2004-07-30 09:38am

2000AD wrote: I've played it. Found it boring and repetative.

And according to todays Daily Express the guy was found with cannabis and gave this in his statement:

"Everything went black. I didn't intend to kill him at first, but when i saw the blood i just let go and hit more times."

I'm sure a computer game gave him that problem

And then there's the question of why a 17 year old has an 18 rated video game.

And on a related note several high street chains in the UK have taken Manhunt off the shelves.

I too played it and found that the violence was a gimmick strapped onto a rather poor, boring and repitive game. Don't get me wrong, I've played and enjoyed violent and often controversial games like the Soldier of Fortune and GTA series as well as Carmaggedon and so on. Manhunt however seemed to have it's reputation solely from the violent way of killing people.

I noticed this article in the Daily Record, a Scots newpaper.

DEADLY VIDEO GAME BANNED Jul 30 2004

Shops pull Manhunt from shelves after outcry over schoolboy's copycat murder

By Donna Watson

A SCOTS video game blamed for a 14-year-old boy's murder was banned from hundreds of stores yesterday.

Bosses at Dixons, Currys, PC World and Game ordered Manhunt to be taken off the shelves.

Other chains, including WH Smith, were debating whether to stop selling the grisly game.

The moves came after the parents of murdered Stefan Pakeerah claimed his 17-year old killer was obsessed with Manhunt.

Warren Leblanc battered Stefan with a claw hammer and stabbed him several times in a park near their homes in Leicester.

He pleaded guilty to murder on Wednesday and will be sentenced in September.

Stefan's mum Giselle was 'elated' when the Dixons Group, which includes Currys and PC World,banned Manhunt.

She said: 'I want to thank them for responding so quickly. I hope others will follow suit.

'Leblanc's friends have all told me he was obsessed by Manhunt and other violent games.

'The similarities between Manhunt and what happened to my son show there is definitely a link of some sort.

'I absolutely believe it will prevent more tragedies if we get rid of this game and start to look at the others on the market.'

Leicester Crown Court heard Leblanc wanted to rob his pal to pay a drug debt.

But Stefan's dad Patrick said: 'There is some connection between Manhunt and what Warren has done. The character in the game kills using weapons like hammers and knives.'

The 'hero' of Manhunt, made by Edinburgh company Rockstar North, is a crazed serial killer who earns points for committing the most gruesome murders possible.

Experts have described it as one of the most violent games ever and warned that it should never be played by children.

The family's local MP, trade secretary Patricia Hewitt, said more needed to be done to stop youngsters 'immersing themselves in ultra-violent games.

But the British Board of Film Classification pointed out that Leblanc should not have been playing Manhunt. It has an 18 Certificate and was designed for the growing numbers of adults who enjoy computer games.

A BBFC spokeswoman said banning violent games was 'using a very large sledge-hammer to crack a very small nut'.

She added: 'There is no evidence that playing video games results in violent behaviour. There is evidence that violent people are attracted to violent material.'

Mark Eyles, a lecturer in computer games, said games were 'an easy target' for blame when kids turned violent.

And he asked: 'Do we want to ban everything violent in case children get hold of it? Ordo we want a society where people are responsible for themselves and their children?

'I don't think Manhunt is going to drive anyone out to go and start murdering people - not unless they are already thinking along those lines.'

Rockstar Games sent their sympathy to Stefan's family but rejected any link between Manhunt and the murder.

They added that they were 'very surprised and disappointed' by the Dixons ban.

# MANHUNT has been nominasted for a creativity award at the Edinburgh International Games Festival next month.

Note the bolded part. I guess that B&Q and Homebase and all DIY stores should have a good part of their stock banned. It's a very tenuous connection.

A similiar comparison on other games was also run.

CHILDREN SHOULDN'T BE EXPOSED TO THIS VIOLENCE Jul 30 2004

Do violent video games really affect kids and teach them to be violent? Psychologist Professor Mark Griffiths, the UK's leading expert on the games and their effects, takes a look at some of the most gruesome

Manhunt (18) The player must kill as many people as he can, using the most vicious and devious methods - starting with smothering one victim with a plastic bag.

Mark: This is one of the most violent games on the market. It's aimed at adults but even most of those would find it repellent. Kids - especially under-eights - might mimic what they see and should not be exposed to this game.

The Getaway (18) A gangster's son has been kidnapped. He goes on the rampage - necks are broken, people are shot and innocent bystanders are killed.

Mark: One redeeming feature of this game is that most people believe in 'an eye for an eye'. But the 18 certificate is well deserved.Grand Theft Auto Vice City (18) A criminal goes on car- jacking spree, killing taxi drivers, prostitutes and driving over innocent pedestrians.

Mark: This is clearly an adult game. For most adults this is a bit like watching a Tarantino movie. But you wouldn't, or shouldn't, let your kids watch one of those.

Hitman 2: Silent Assassin(16) This game originally included a simulation of the 1984 attack on the Golden Temple at Amritsar when 912 Sikhs died. In an edited version, the mobster 'hero' must kill his victims making a s little noise as possible. Mark: The original game was in poor taste. The fact that those killed in the new version are criminals lowers the feeling of guilt for the player. Regular users will soon become numbed to the realistic death scenes.

Max Payne 2: Fall of Max Payne (18) Like the Charles Bronson film Death Wish on computer. An ex-cop whose wife was killed by drug dealers seeks revenge.

Mark: It plays the emotional revenge card. The bullet-time sequences at least remind the player they are acting a fantasy

I've played all of them except Hitman 2 and didn't see anything too bad. If we're going to take the moral high ground what about banning some films, look at the content of a typical Tarantino film. There was more graphic violence in Kill Bill than most computer games. Also, the constant harping of 'think of the children' gets extremely tiresome when the vast majority of these games are designed for and certificated for adults.

I guess it's Video games lot to be classed as the cause of all the ills of society right now though. In the 50's and early 60's it was certain types of music, something that continued onto the 70's with some of the more controversial bans. And who can forget the controversy over Dungeons and Dragons, and latterly the Vampire series of RPG's.

Cao Cao · Post by **Cao Cao** » 2004-07-30 09:48am

'The similarities between Manhunt and what happened to my son show there is definitely a link of some sort.

'I absolutely believe it will prevent more tragedies if we get rid of this game and start to look at the others on the market.'

I don't give a damn about Manhunt, but if people like her turn this into a witchhunt for all sorts of other games that'll just piss me off, greif or no greif.

Leicester Crown Court heard Leblanc wanted to rob his pal to pay a drug debt.

But I guess drugs aren't popular enough to use as a reason for violent behaviour anymore, even when their involvment is crystal clear.

Jade Falcon · Post by **Jade Falcon** » 2004-07-30 09:53am

Of course the fact that he had a drug debt had nothing to do with it. I also don't give a damn about Manhunt, it's a pretty poor game, but I think a decision to ban it is wrong as it's a slippery slope. Already she's saying about looking at other games on the market.

I remember an article in an old PC Zone about the furor about Grand Theft Auto, the original version when it was released, and the Rockstar team said that half the people that were putting in 'Cop killer game should be banned' and so on hadn't even seen the game, and when they did, they wondered what all the fuss was about.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2004-07-30 02:14pm

Oh, I just picked up LOTR risk
I shall put the tiny prop ring on call it my precious and proceed to conquer the world

Dartzap · Post by **Dartzap** » 2004-07-30 02:28pm

So are they going to ban the Driver series then? Because i really wnat to on missions where i get to damaage all the cars in my area... Although i would be killed by the imsurance companys after a couple of dozen...

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2004-07-31 07:40am

I think we can certainly blame media for stimulating a great deal of stupid behavior. Impressionable children who listen to artists extol the virtues of marijuana and under-age drinking certainly aren't recieving a positive message.

On the other hand, it's the parents that have the largest impact over what their children do. The people who take their cues from external sources are the ones who don't have the responsible parents to tell them to make their own choices - and to delineate which choices to make - in the first place.

We need to take the parents to task before we focus on getting the media to spin its image and influence more responsibility.

Vendetta · Post by **Vendetta** » 2004-07-31 09:07am

Dartzap wrote:So are they going to ban the Driver series then? Because i really wnat to on missions where i get to damaage all the cars in my area... Although i would be killed by the imsurance companys after a couple of dozen...

They should certainly ban Driver 3.

No, really, it's a serious threat to society.

Imagine the scenaro, a perfectly normal deranged teenager goes out, perfectly innocently, and buys the disgusting filth known as Driver 3. He gets it home and, after having played it for only a few moments is driven into a homicidal rage by how utterly fucking terrible it is, slaughtering a street full of people in his atttempt to revenge himself on the games store staff who sniggered as he haded over his money.

Anyway, Manhunt is inappropriate for children to play. That's why it has a fucking 18 certificate, meaning that it cannot legally be sold to anyone under that age.

Jade Falcon · Post by **Jade Falcon** » 2004-07-31 09:22am

Vendetta wrote:Anyway, Manhunt is inappropriate for children to play. That's why it has a fucking 18 certificate, meaning that it cannot legally be sold to anyone under that age.

That constantly seems lost on the people who complain about this. One newspaper said that Manhunt shouldn't be played by eight year olds. Well, d'uh, of course it shouldn't if it has an 18 certificate.

Companion Cube · Post by **Companion Cube** » 2004-07-31 11:44am

And the witch hunt begins...

As has become the norm in cases like this, many media outlets are now jumping on the bandwagon in a misguided moral crusade, including UK newspaper the Daily Mail, which today ran with the headline “Ban These Evil Games”, a follow-up to the “Murder by PlayStation” story on the front-page of the paper yesterday. The paper even included a hit list of violent games that it wants banned in the UK, including Epic’s Unreal Tournament 2004 and Id’s upcoming Doom III.

Vendetta · Post by **Vendetta** » 2004-07-31 11:51am

Videogames are dangerous.

CDs can be filed down to sharp edges and used to kill!

Ban this filth!

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2004-07-31 12:08pm

Todsays Express said that Counterstrike was veyr realistic, especially the blood and gore effects.
To me that said

but then i haven't played CS in ages, so has CS had a big upgrade?

Vohu Manah · Post by **Vohu Manah** » 2004-07-31 12:19pm

So are all music CDs and movie DVDs, those are a lot of sharp edges. Ban the lot of them!

I keep an article in my closet from the Baltimore Sun from last year (around the release of GTA: Vice City). The article's conclusion was correct: it is a parent's responsibility to know what games their child is playing, and to censor materials they feel is inappropriate. Relationships are key is another theme.

A quote from George Scarlett, then deputy department chair of the department of child development at Tufts University in Bedford, Mass. It is noted in the article that he is a father of two, and both play violent video games.

Baltimore Sun, Page 10D: Thursday, March 6, 2003 wrote:...

"If your relationships are good, no video game is going to have any ill effects," Scarlett said. "If the relationships are bad, then maybe the video games have some augmenting effects. But what I worry about is that the video game becomes a scapegoat and a diversion from the real sources of violence - poor parenting and toxic relationships."

...

The only fault given to the games themselves was (quoting Ed Christophersen, then a psychologist at Children's Mercy Hospital in Kansas City, Mo.):

Baltimore Sun, Page 10D: Thursday, March 6, 2003 wrote:...

"If they're exposed to them, they don't need immediate therapy," he said. "It isn't going to make a good boy go bad."

On the other hand, he said, kids could find many more productive things to do with their time.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2004-07-31 12:52pm

Right, not to mention the real suckers start with things much more mondane, mutilating barbies, hurting neighbor's pets, starting small fires....

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2004-07-31 01:25pm

2000AD wrote:Todsays Express said that Counterstrike was veyr realistic, especially the blood and gore effects.
To me that said but then i haven't played CS in ages, so has CS had a big upgrade?

Well, you can get shields now.... but no, the graphics are still 5+ years old, and the 'blood' still sprays out in squares.

Faqa · Post by **Faqa** » 2004-07-31 04:31pm

So, what have we learned:

A) Patrica Hewitt is a vote-whored moronic cunt.

B ) Mark Griffiths is an idiot incapable of research and logical conclusions and should therefore have his degree ripped up.

C) The majority of society has no grasp of basic logic('correlation' =\ 'cause and effect', idiots, even if I grant a 'correlation'), nor mathematics(Oooh, 0.000000001% are violent. If I was trying to prove even the most precise scientific theory, I would be delighted to have such a small margin of failure. I would still consider my experiment a success). Smack them on the behinds and send em' back to pre-school. I hate idiots.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2004-07-31 04:32pm

Condition Zero? Pretty much the same graphics wise as the original I thought.

And what gore? Sure you get blood and stuff, but it's not like hitting a guy in the head with a shotgun is going to make his head blow up.

Jade Falcon · Post by **Jade Falcon** » 2004-07-31 04:51pm

Odds are that most of these so called 'evil violent games' won't even have been looked at by any of these bloody reporters. They'll just jump on the bandwagon. They talk about the low morals and so on in this country and demonize video games but these same papers will probably have a large part of their content dedicated to that pox on society known as Big Brother.

Vendetta · Post by **Vendetta** » 2004-07-31 04:52pm

Faqa wrote:So, what have we learned:

B ) Mark Griffiths is an idiot incapable of research and logical conclusions and should therefore have his degree ripped up.

Hopefull next time we'll learn to read what people say rather than attacking them.

Griffiths' point is that violent videogames are often not suitable for children, in exactly the same way that violent movies aren't, and that the same degree of classification should be applied to them

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2004-07-31 05:29pm

3rd Impact wrote:And the witch hunt begins...

As has become the norm in cases like this, many media outlets are now jumping on the bandwagon in a misguided moral crusade, including UK newspaper the Daily Mail, which today ran with the headline “Ban These Evil Games”, a follow-up to the “Murder by PlayStation” story on the front-page of the paper yesterday. The paper even included a hit list of violent games that it wants banned in the UK, including Epic’s Unreal Tournament 2004 and Id’s upcoming Doom III.

Ah, the good old Daily Mail. The one tabloid the others openly mock and which is not of high enough status to be used as toilet paper.

I believe the head office is run by a steaming pile of animal faeces, though that gives them far too much credit.

Sharp-kun · Post by **Sharp-kun** » 2004-07-31 07:18pm

Jade Falcon wrote:Odds are that most of these so called 'evil violent games' won't even have been looked at by any of these bloody reporters. They'll just jump on the bandwagon.

Very much so. I remember one article a few years back in which they said Doom involved going round a concentration camp scoring points by killing children.

.......

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2004-07-31 07:31pm

Incidentally, we now have confirmation on the "videogames cause real-life actions" thesis. I believe my violent hatred of the Nazis is directly related to my recent acqusition of Call of Duty.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2004-07-31 07:51pm

Additional .02 a kid was at the game store and tried to buy the same game as me. They wouldn't let him, and then he complained bitterly that he would bring his parents to deal with the descrimination...

ten year olds should not be trying to buy T+ games....