Professor says Bush revealed National Guard favoritism

[Elfdart]

Not true.

The official records backed the Swifties contentions that Kerry had never been in Cambodia in 1968 and that he was not in Vietnam when MLK was shot. The rest of their claims weren't backed up by Kerry's released records, but he still refuses to relase almost 100 pages of his official records. WTF is he hiding?

Official records show no such thing. http://swiftvets.eriposte.com/kerrycambodia.htm

Kerry was serving in Vietnam (the war) when King was killed.

Kerry's papers are in the hands of historian Douglas Brinkley, who has exclusive rights to them in exchange for writing Kerry's biography. Nothing is in "hiding"?


Why didn't Gore make more of this? He might have received special treatment himself and in case you didn't notice, Gore ran the most inept campaign in history. He didn't even use the fact that members of the Bush family are a menace when they get behind the wheel of a car.

[Imperial Overlord]

Gore went to Viet Nam as an enlisted man. He was a photographer, but whether this was because he was lucky, strings were pulled, or an officer decided that it was career suicide to assign the son of a powerful senator to the infantry is beyond my knowledge.

[Glocksman]

Even the Kerry campaign no longer claims he was in Cambodia on Christmas. Also at the time he claimed to have been in Cambodia, the Navy had the waterway blocked off.

The only way his boat would have made it into Cambodia in December 1968 is if he carried it on his back.

Also, Kerry claimed he was in Vietnam when MLK as shot.
He wasn't in Vietnam, he was on a ship in the South China Sea.

Kerry's papers are in the hands of historian Douglas Brinkley, who has exclusive rights to them in exchange for writing Kerry's biography. Nothing is in "hiding"?

Really? Then why haven't the missing 98 or so pages been released to the public?

Gore ran the most inept campaign in history. He didn't even use the fact that members of the Bush family are a menace when they get behind the wheel of a car.

Oh he tried, but they waited until the last second to release the information. I remember it quite well.

Like I said earlier, Gore's cozying up to Sarah Brady and his support for gun control cost him his home state, and thus the election.

[Darth Wong]

Who cares about Cambodia? It seems fairly simple to me: Kerry saw combat, Bush didn't. Kerry showed up when called up. Bush didn't. Kerry went to Vietnam. Bush didn't.

Only an idiot could possibly compare Bush's Vietnam-era record to Kerry's Vietnam-era record and come up with anything less than a massively one-sided advantage for Kerry. If you genuinely think that the Vietnam-era doesn't matter today, that's fine and it's a fair point. But to harp on ANY imperfection in Kerry's record in comparison to the big bag of shit that represents Bush's record is just laughable.

[Beowulf]

Kerry's papers are in the hands of historian Douglas Brinkley, who has exclusive rights to them in exchange for writing Kerry's biography. Nothing is in "hiding"?

Really? Then why haven't the missing 98 or so pages been released to the public?

It's interesting to note that the Navy says Kerry hasn't released all his records: PDF with letter from Navy

[Glocksman]

Who cares about Cambodia? It seems fairly simple to me: Kerry saw combat, Bush didn't. Kerry showed up when called up. Bush didn't. Kerry went to Vietnam. Bush didn't.

Only an idiot could possibly compare Bush's Vietnam-era record to Kerry's Vietnam-era record and come up with anything less than a massively one-sided advantage for Kerry. If you genuinely think that the Vietnam-era doesn't matter today, that's fine and it's a fair point. But to harp on ANY imperfection in Kerry's record in comparison to the big bag of shit that represents Bush's record is just laughable.

I could care less about Bush's or Kerry's Vietnam records. Both of them are lying through their teeth about certain aspects of their records.

Bush is lying about not getting special treatment and won't discuss his missing period of service. Kerry lies about being in Cambodia and in Vietnam when MLK was shot in order to make political points.

What all of the lies tell me is that neither candidate is a man that I want in the Oval Office.

[Elfdart]

Even the Kerry campaign no longer claims he was in Cambodia on Christmas. Also at the time he claimed to have been in Cambodia, the Navy had the waterway blocked off.

The Mekong Delta couldn't be blocked off, which is why the Navy used the swift boats in the first place.

The only way his boat would have made it into Cambodia in December 1968 is if he carried it on his back.

Maria L. La Ganga and Stephen Braun, Los Angeles Times

But two of Kerry's crewmates — Wasser and Zaladonis — both told The Times the boat was in the vicinity of the Cambodian border and even fought an engagement with a Viet Cong sampan on Christmas Eve day.

"We patrolled a river on the border," Zaladonis said last week. "Unless I'm out of my mind or mistaken, that river was part of the border."

Also, Kerry claimed he was in Vietnam when MLK as shot.
He wasn't in Vietnam, he was on a ship in the South China Sea.

Being "in Vietnam" means two things: (1) actually being in the country or (2) being in the Vietnam War, usually referred to as just "Vietnam" for short.

Kerry's papers are in the hands of historian Douglas Brinkley, who has exclusive rights to them in exchange for writing Kerry's biography. Nothing is in "hiding"?

Really? Then why haven't the missing 98 or so pages been released to the public?

Reread the previous statement. Do you know what the word "exclusive" means?

[Elfdart]

Kerry's papers are in the hands of historian Douglas Brinkley, who has exclusive rights to them in exchange for writing Kerry's biography. Nothing is in "hiding"?

Really? Then why haven't the missing 98 or so pages been released to the public?

It's interesting to note that the Navy says Kerry hasn't released all his records: PDF with letter from Navy

From Judicial Watch, the same group that has a necrophile obsession with Vince Foster's corpse. What's wrong, couldn't get a copy of the Paper Moon or Spotlight?

[Glocksman]

Really? Then why haven't the missing 98 or so pages been released to the public?

It's interesting to note that the Navy says Kerry hasn't released all his records: PDF with letter from Navy

From Judicial Watch, the same group that has a necrophile obsession with Vince Foster's corpse. What's wrong, couldn't get a copy of the Paper Moon or Spotlight?

So the Navy letter is a forgery?
Right now, I'd say Judicial Watch is more trustworthy than CBS.

As far as Kerry's biographer's 'exclusive' agreement with him over the records goes, that's a nice convienent way to hide documents.

Some transparency, giving your biographer exclusive access while having the Navy deny the Washington Post's FoIA. And all of this while being a candidate for President

What if GWB did the same thing with his NG records? "Sorry fellas. I can't release all of my records because of my book deal with Kitty Kelley".

We've hashed out the Cambodia and MLK bits in the 'Swift Boat Shyster' thread and I don't feel like reposting everything here, but suffice it to say that Kerry claimed to be 'in Vietnam-a place of violence' when MLK was shot, not in in theater or on a ship off of the coast.

Too bad that by his own words nothing out of the ordinary happened while he was on board. Kerry did indeed serve in Vietnam, just not in April 1968.

[Beowulf]

Really? Then why haven't the missing 98 or so pages been released to the public?

It's interesting to note that the Navy says Kerry hasn't released all his records: PDF with letter from Navy

From Judicial Watch, the same group that has a necrophile obsession with Vince Foster's corpse. What's wrong, couldn't get a copy of the Paper Moon or Spotlight?

Ad Hominem. There's a reason why I linked directly to the PDF, instead of the article.

[Elfdart]

The moral to the story is: Snooze you lose. Kerry and Brinkley agreed to the biography and Brinkley got the papers -before Kerry decided to run for President. If others wanted to look, they should have offered to write a book about Kerry. There's nothing unusual about this kind of arrangement.

If someone needs to look at the private files, they can file an FOIA request or subpoena them. The problem with shysters like Larry Klayman and the others at Judicial Watch is that (a) they haven't presented any compelling reason to look at the papers and (b) they are not part of law enforcement, nor do they have any other legal standing to look at them.

For example, we had a case in Dallas of a guy convicted of child abuse claiming that he deserved mercy because he was suffering some sort of trauma from fighting in Vietnam. The prosecutor got his Social Security and got hold of the scumbag's records. He was never in Vietnam (the war or the country). The judge made the motherfucker pay.

Nobody has offered any legitimate reason to look at Kerry's records. Besides, seeing how shamelessly right-wingers lie about the records released so far, why should anyone give them more material to bullshit about?

[Glocksman]

If someone needs to look at the private files, they can file an FOIA request or subpoena them

Like the Washington Post did?

They're certainly a legitimate news organization (though I think Shep would disagree ), yet they were denied access because Kerry won't permit it.

The Democrats are rightfully demanding that Bush allow the release of every document that relates to his ANG service, yet Kerry refuses to do the same.

I hate to say it, but in the 'document wars', the Bushies are actually playing fair and releasing things as they come up while Kerry's hiding behind his biographer.

[Elfdart]

If someone needs to look at the private files, they can file an FOIA request or subpoena them

Like the Washington Post did?

They're certainly a legitimate news organization (though I think Shep would disagree ), yet they were denied access because Kerry won't permit it.

It doesn't matter which news organization asks, they have to have a compelling reason to be allowed to look at them. Curiosity doesn't cut it.

The Democrats are rightfully demanding that Bush allow the release of every document that relates to his ANG service, yet Kerry refuses to do the same.

Apples and coconuts. Dems are demanding that Bush prove he showed up for duty as federal law requires. They specifically want to know why Bush deserted in 1972. Bush and his camp followers insist he served "honorably". Let them prove it.

On the other hand, the corpse-fuckers at Judicial Watch want a taxpayer-funded fishing expedition for... what are they hoping to find? Love letters to Jane Fonda? A promise by Fonda that in exchange for becoming an agent for Hanoi, she would dress up in her Barbarella costume and fuck him? The orders to kill Vince Foster?

I'll give you a hint: Nixon ordered his two biggest thugs (H.R. Haldeman and Charles "Bomber" Colson) to try to dig up anything on Kerry. They came up empty and resorted to scouring the sewer for a pre-toupee John O'Neil. There is nothing there.

I hate to say it,

In point of fact, you love to say it.

but in the 'document wars', the Bushies are actually playing fair and releasing things as they come up while Kerry's hiding behind his biographer.

Bush promised back in February that he would release ALL of his documents about his service in the Guard. He hasn't. AP had to sue, and even then new documents keep popping up.

If Kerry were to reneg on his deal with Brinkley, Brinkley could -and should sue his ass into the dirt. Suddenly, the info in a hardback book retailing for @$20.00 would be available in the NYT for a buck. To say nothing about the amount of work Brinkley put into the book in the first place.

There are LEGITIMATE reasons to look at Dubya's records. As the Shit Boaters have proved with their storm surge of lies, there is no LEGITIMATE reason to open Kerry's records. The Navy's Inspector General agreed:

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u ... y_awards_6

[Glocksman]

Nice spin there, bud. The Navy only said that proper procedures were followed by those who issued the citations.

He didn't say a word about Kerry's records.

And as far as a legitimate reason goes, the SOB is running for President. That's reason enough for a news organization to have access, especially when Kerry made a point out of his service during the primaries.

It's pretty bad when GWB looks like a model of transparency and openness in comparison.