Can a gay person morally be a Republican?

Pick · Post by **Pick** » 2006-06-05 07:21pm

I would say no. Not really. Not currently. Signing away your own rights to people who largely loathe and admonish you? Stupid. I don't think you necessarily need to be a Democrat, however, as a default position for non-Republican. We have more than two parties; people just don't consider them. Maybe if people did they might not be so fucking pointless.

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2006-06-05 07:34pm

Being a Republican doesn't mean you have to vote for every one of their candidates. I think the important thing here is to sway over the middle of the road Rs, but you're not going to do that if you have no voice within the party. You can't turn homosexuals straight, but you can turn the GOP gay given enough time and effort. It wouldn't be the first party to do a 180.

Fire Fly · Post by **Fire Fly** » 2006-06-05 08:04pm

Gay republicans that I have encountered have displayed a dismal level of intelligence and ciritical analysis capabilities. Moreover, they are naive beyond belief and incapable of putting two and two together: Bush uses the gay issue as a fisher uses worms to lure a fish, Bush and Company are so far up the religious right's ass that I don't know whose who, and a significant portion of the Republican party in power currently don't give a shit about any gay rights (nor many for that matter). How much more must they act until you see for yourselves that they don't give a shit? Gay republicans remind me of Star Wars minimalists and creationists: they'll use every single excuse to block the cold reality because they don't want to believe it. They dig holes for themselves to live in and when you try to bury those holes, they get pissy about it. Get out of your holes people. Admit it, a significant portion of the Republican party doesn't like you.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2006-06-05 08:06pm

The Republican Party excels at making people vote against their own interests. Who makes up a huge chunk of their voting public these days? Rural, low income folks. They happily vote for people who will screw them over with healthcare, rewarding the oil companies as they gouge them for their long drives, rewarding the top 10% and never the rural folks, and so forth.

Metatwaddle · Post by **Metatwaddle** » 2006-06-05 08:27pm

Could it be that a lot of these "log cabin Republicans" don't care that much about the marriage issue because they themselves don't want to get married (or at least wouldn't plan on it right now), and it doesn't matter as long as they can have relationships and have sex and such? A lot of us (including me) might consider it a basic right, but it's possible that these people don't consider it such because they aren't going to avail themselves of the opportunity.

I'm not sure if there's any evidence behind this; it's just a hypothesis.

Fire Fly · Post by **Fire Fly** » 2006-06-05 08:36pm

Discombobulated wrote:Could it be that a lot of these "log cabin Republicans" don't care that much about the marriage issue because they themselves don't want to get married (or at least wouldn't plan on it right now), and it doesn't matter as long as they can have relationships and have sex and such? A lot of us (including me) might consider it a basic right, but it's possible that these people don't consider it such because they aren't going to avail themselves of the opportunity.

I'm not sure if there's any evidence behind this; it's just a hypothesis.

I can only speak of the ones that I have encountered, but those who I have met have expressed little desire since they already have what they want: a partner and partner benefits. And, they think a marriage is for straight people only. I'm sure there are others who would think otherwise, gay Republicans that is, but since I hardly ever hear of those, I can't say otherwise.

Molyneux · Post by **Molyneux** » 2006-06-05 09:55pm

Speaking as a conservative, bisexual male...the Republican Party is nothing but a disgrace. With the sole notable exception of Mayor Bloomberg, I am forced to support Democrats exclusively.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2006-06-05 10:03pm

Discombobulated wrote:Could it be that a lot of these "log cabin Republicans" don't care that much about the marriage issue because they themselves don't want to get married (or at least wouldn't plan on it right now), and it doesn't matter as long as they can have relationships and have sex and such? A lot of us (including me) might consider it a basic right, but it's possible that these people don't consider it such because they aren't going to avail themselves of the opportunity.

I'm not sure if there's any evidence behind this; it's just a hypothesis.

However using that logic because I don't drink I shouldn't give a shit about other people's rights to drink and should support prohibition.

A better example is this one. If I was a black man, uninterested at all in white women does that mean I should support taking the right of black men to marry outside their race?

Another way of looking at it is this: you are allowing an inherent right that you and everyone else like you have to be curtailed just because you feel you're not interested in that right. You can choose not to exercise that right but why should you support taking away that choice from everyone in your class?

It just boggles my mind that a gay person would be a Republican in this day and age. Its obvious what the Republican base wants. To take away one of your inherent rights. So why the hell would you choose to associate with the party?

If you say because I associate with their fiscal/foreign policy/ etc agenda then you must then concede that your own civil rights are simply not as important to you. There is no if and ors in that position. The party has made this one of their centerpieces. This is not democratic spinlessness trying not to offend, this is active and insistent drive to legally discriminate againts gays.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2006-06-05 10:08pm

I find nothing wront with either Democrats or Republicans. But at the moment, I find the Republican party to be worthy of contempt for their arrogance and desire to fuck over civil liberties. So yes, I can easily see a gay Republican. I can also see a gay Republican who is going to be voting primarily Democrat out of necessity given the hyjacking the Fundamentalists have done to the Republican Party.

I consider myself an independent centrist with conservative leanings (not to say I don't have liberal social views), but I tend to vote Democrat because the Republican choices are absolute shit for the most part. My state has idiot Republicans or moderate Democrats. Tough choice.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2007-09-04 02:59pm

In light of Larry "Wide Stance" Craig's misadventures in the men's room that led to his ouster by a very unified Republican party leadership and Craig's vehement defenses of "I'm not gay." and his support of anti-gay rights measures I feel it is time to necro my own thread of last year.

The question is raised once again. What is at work in a homosexual's psyche that allows them to support a party that actively despises and villifies them. A party that will let other congressional people get away with seeing hookers, stealing money, stealing elections but if you've sucked a cock...watch out!!! We're gonna boot you faster than you can tap a foot under a bathroom stall. How can you morally support a party that wants to make you into a second class citizen and drive you deeeeep into the closet like certain wide stancers?

I am forever amazed by this apparent dichotemy in character and reason. I can understand being in the closet, I can understand trying to cover up what you are from both yourself and others but what I cannot grasp or fathom is actively supporting a party that wants to take your rights away.

Is self hatred that bad? Can there be that many self hating homosexuals that they can stand and take this while at the same time seeking anonymous sex in men's rooms?

I welcome feedback on this issue as it has become relevant yet again.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2007-09-04 03:32pm

This GOP "morality" is about as phony as what they've been saying about global warming. They seem to think that morality means pretending to be a saint while banging the male intern in the closet when nobody is looking.

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2007-09-04 03:39pm

Superman wrote:This GOP "morality" is about as phony as what they've been saying about global warming. They seem to think that morality means pretending to be a saint while banging the male intern in the closet when nobody is looking.

Among most of the leadership? Sure, I don't doubt that a bit.
However I imagine a lot of the base truly believes that discrimination against gays is justified in the Name of the Lord™
The party leaders are just a bunch of modern day Elmer Gantrys riding the wave.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2007-09-04 03:51pm

Stravo wrote:The question is raised once again. What is at work in a homosexual's psyche that allows them to support a party that actively despises and villifies them.

Money. If you're part of the monied class and you don't give a shit about anything but your own narrow self-interest, then you will want to support a party that will continue ensuring that you and your ilk continue to get an ever-growing piece of the American economic pie. All other concerns fall by the wayside, and you'll happily support whatever side-agenda they have, as long as you get to continue amassing wealth.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2007-09-04 03:54pm

Glocksman wrote:Among most of the leadership? Sure, I don't doubt that a bit. However I imagine a lot of the base truly believes that discrimination against gays is justified in the Name of the Lord™
The party leaders are just a bunch of modern day Elmer Gantrys riding the wave.

I'd call Senators leaders. The latest was Craig, right? The guy who says he's not gay... he just wanted gay sex (allegedly).

I'd call that a good example of just how utterly ridiculous some of this GOP Christian morality really is.

It seems beyond absurd to me that some people think appearances are what life is all about. It's kind of sad, really. Of course it's not just right wingers who do this, but they have this pseudo-morality they want to wave in the faces of other people. I guess when they get caught doing these things it tends to be a bigger deal.

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2007-09-04 03:54pm

Whilst I can perhaps understand jingoistic homosexuals voting Republican I just don't get homosexuals voting against their own civil rights on the grounds of 'fiscal conservatism' when the Republicans have been spending like drunken sailors ever since they got in, turning the surplus they inherited into a colossal deficit. Surely someone concerned with 'fiscal conservatism' would have noticed that by now.

Siege · Post by **Siege** » 2007-09-04 03:55pm

I wonder whether it's really self-hatred or just another case of selling ones soul for power. Didn't this Craig person say something along the lines of "what do you think of that?" when he showed the arresting officer his 'I'm a US senator' pass? Maybe these people are merely of the firm opinion that they can outlaw it for the proles and yet get away with it themselves via the proper application of UNLIMITED POWER™.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2007-09-04 03:59pm

Plekhanov wrote:Whilst I can perhaps understand jingoistic homosexuals voting Republican I just don't get homosexuals voting against their own civil rights on the grounds of 'fiscal conservatism'

Maybe this analogy isn't entirely accurate, but I used to think the same of right wing coworkers who hated unions, but were making a nice fat living because of the correctional officers union they were in. They would bitch about union contributions, but without that union they would probably make about half of what they were making. They never could understand that.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2007-09-04 03:59pm

There is also the influence of "family tradition".

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2007-09-04 04:02pm

Plekhanov wrote:Whilst I can perhaps understand jingoistic homosexuals voting Republican I just don't get homosexuals voting against their own civil rights on the grounds of 'fiscal conservatism' when the Republicans have been spending like drunken sailors ever since they got in, turning the surplus they inherited into a colossal deficit. Surely someone concerned with 'fiscal conservatism' would have noticed that by now.

That's because "fiscal conservatism" is just a Republican code-phrase for "making sure the rich keep getting richer, while the poor keep getting fucked." And of course, the poor Republicans just don't know what they're actually voting for, because they're fucking stupid.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2007-09-04 04:04pm

Plekhanov wrote:Whilst I can perhaps understand jingoistic homosexuals voting Republican I just don't get homosexuals voting against their own civil rights on the grounds of 'fiscal conservatism' when the Republicans have been spending like drunken sailors ever since they got in, turning the surplus they inherited into a colossal deficit. Surely someone concerned with 'fiscal conservatism' would have noticed that by now.

Ever heard of the "No True Scotsman" Fallacy? The current "fiscal conservatives" love to use it.

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2007-09-04 04:05pm

Gays should not vote Republican, just as emigrants in England would not vote for BNP. If some do it, I feel sorry for those people, since it means they have no moral compass, just a thrust of greed or jingoism which overwhelms every concern about your fellow compatriot who might just be in the same minority as you are.

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2007-09-04 04:14pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Stravo wrote:Can it be said then that gay Republicans who are so because they are fiscally conservative or for strong foreign policy considers these issues more important than their own civil rights and liberties?
If they completely bought into all the fearmongering bullshit about how Democrats would destroy the country through fiscal irresponsibility (as if the Republicans wouldn't) and take away the military's guns and force them to fight with nun-chuks, I suppose it's possible for someone to think the damage caused by voting Democrat would be so great as to sacrifice his own personal freedom for the Great Cause. It would require quite a spectacular level of ignorance to actually buy into that, though. So it still boils down to gay Republicans being idiots.

Besides which, the Republikan Party has proven to be both fiscally and militarily irresponsible; in fact more so than any other ruling party in American history, so there really is no valid reason for any gays to continue supporting these assclowns. Unless they are, in fact, idiots.

Pint0 Xtreme · Post by **Pint0 Xtreme** » 2007-09-04 07:07pm

One other possible explanation for gays voting Republican is the presence internalized homophobia. Remember that LGBT individuals grow up in a society that teaches them to hate themselves and they inevitably buy into homophobic ideology on a subconscious level. Some suffer from internalized homophobia to a greater extent than others and I don't doubt it has something to do with gay Republicans rationalizing why voting for a party that hates you is a good idea.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2007-09-04 07:10pm

Pint0 Xtreme wrote:One other possible explanation for gays voting Republican is the presence internalized homophobia. Remember that LGBT individuals grow up in a society that teaches them to hate themselves and they inevitably buy into homophobic ideology on a subconscious level. Some suffer from internalized homophobia to a greater extent than others and I don't doubt it has something to do with gay Republicans rationalizing why voting for a party that hates you is a good idea.

That's what I was going to post as well. Issues with names like "homosexual panic," "reaction formation," or what used to be called "Ego-dystonic Homosexuality" are very real and have been studied extensively in psychiatric literature.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2007-09-04 07:19pm

The question is raised once again. What is at work in a homosexual's psyche that allows them to support a party that actively despises and villifies them.

I would be tempted to call it self-loathing if I had not been there. In many cases that is probably the case, but in many cases (such as mine) they view the other issues on the platform as more important. Many can deal without gay marriage, and think that the free market and people's good sense will protect them from discrimination and hate crimes. They have ideological concerns which they view as more important than actively fighting for their human rights.

Additionally, they think they can change the organization from within (like the Uncle Tom's Cabin Republicans). They are deluding themselves and undermining their own posititions.

The reason they do all of this and hold these positions, as asinine as they are is that their identity is wraped around Republicanism

Basically it is a big case of cognitive dissonance.

A party that will let other congressional people get away with seeing hookers, stealing money, stealing elections but if you've sucked a cock...watch out!!!

I am not even sure it is a matter of sucking cock. It is the shady way they do it. In public bathrooms, seducing teenagers over AIM etc. Hehehe. This is where the self-loathing kicks in

How can you morally support a party that wants to make you into a second class citizen and drive you deeeeep into the closet like certain wide stancers?

You cant if you can rationally consider the situation. Some dont/cant. Too much of their personal identity is bound up in "being a Republican" for them to break away.

I am forever amazed by this apparent dichotemy in character and reason. I can understand being in the closet, I can understand trying to cover up what you are from both yourself and others

I cant. It is cold, dark and lonely in there. Then again, my experience in that damn closet was pretty bad.

Is self hatred that bad? Can there be that many self hating homosexuals that they can stand and take this while at the same time seeking anonymous sex in men's rooms?

Dude, the self-loathing is so bad that many young teenagers commit suicide when they realize they are gay, or are outed becausae they hate what they are, or fear the repurcussions which will come at that hands of homophobes and bigots. Imagine for a moment that you were raised steeped in religion and conservatism. That your very identity and sense of self to some degree revolves around these two things. All your friends are homophobes, your parents are homophobes. Now, imagine you realize you are gay. Not only will you probably be self-loathing and hate yourself, but you will probably have a paralyzing fear of telling ANYONE because you are so emotionally invested.