Intifada 3? Kidnapped Israeli citizens might be a flashpoint

[Simon_Jester]

The Palestinians in Gaza know perfectly well they're living among a group of violent militants who scatter among them and let them get slaughtered by the stray shots from Israeli attacks the militants provoked. If I were in their shoes I'd have been trying to flee after Cast Lead if not sooner.

How long is long enough for the Gazans to either flee the territory or assert their own right to a sane government? Is Israel supposed to simply ignore the actions of the crazy and violent government that attacks them, because there has 'not been time' for the innocent citizens ruled by that government to flee?

If nothing else, the Palestinians have the closest they can ever come to self-governance within the Gaza Strip. No one is coming in from outside and imposing government on them. How they choose to use self-governance, and whether they are able to stop foreign-backed militants from becoming the de facto government, is significant.

And that has to tell us something about the intentions and long range plans of whoever has power among the Palestinians at the moment. And at the moment what it's telling us isn't promising.

[wautd]

Homes of murder suspects destroyed

Israeli troops have demolished the homes of two militants suspected over the abduction and killing of three Israeli teenagers whose deaths sparked the war in Gaza, and sealed up the home of a third.

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The military said the West Bank homes were destroyed early today, according to procedure in dealing with militants suspected of major crimes.

The three teenagers - Eyal Yifrah, Gilad Shaar and Naftali Frenkel - were murdered in the West Bank in June.

Their deaths led to wide-ranging Israeli raids in the West Bank and precipitated a month of bitter fighting between Israel and Hamas in the Gaza Strip.

The suspected mastermind, Hussam Kawasma, has been in Israeli custody since July. Two other suspects, identified by Israel as Marwan Kawasma and Amer Abu Aysha, remain at large.

I guess being a murder suspect is the same as being guilty. I can only assume that the homes of the Israeli's who burned the Palestinian teen alive will be destroyed as well

[Dr. Trainwreck]

Look wautd, being the world's most moral army doesn't mean the IDF cannot practice collective punishment every now and then.

Besides, they were human shields, rite gais?

[Omeganian]

Look wautd, being the world's most moral army doesn't mean the IDF cannot practice collective punishment every now and then.

Besides, they were human shields, rite gais?

Well, the moral thing would be to wreck the house of every Hamas operative (for the organization's sources of income if nothing else), but Israel is too lenient.

[Dr. Trainwreck]

In that case, the moral thing would be for Hamas to target the house of every IDF reservist for rocket fire, right?

[Omeganian]

In that case, the moral thing would be for Hamas to target the house of every IDF reservist for rocket fire, right?

I heard of IDF stopping cargoes, but stealing international aid money to put in its own pocket... mind reminding me when it happened?

[eyl]

Senior Hamas Official Says Members Of Qassam Brigade Were Responsible For Abducting Israeli Teens

RAMALLAH, West Bank, Aug 21 (Reuters) - A top Hamas official said members of his militant group kidnapped three Israeli teenagers whose deaths in June provoked a spiral of violence that led to the war in Gaza, the first acknowledgement of the movement's involvement.

Hamas, which controls Gaza, has up to now refused to confirm or deny Israeli accusations that it masterminded the abduction and killing of the three young men, one of them a joint U.S.-Israeli citizen, in Hebron.

"There was much speculation about this operation, some said it was a conspiracy," Saleh al-Arouri told delegates at the International Union of Islamic Scholars in Istanbul on Wednesday, according to a recording of the meeting posted online by organizers.

"The popular will was exercised throughout our occupied land, and culminated in the heroic operation by the Qassam Brigades in imprisoning the three settlers in Hebron," he said, referring to Hamas's armed wing.

"This was an operation from your brothers in Qassam undertaken to aid their brothers on hunger strike in (Israeli) prisons," he added.

Jewish seminary students Eyal Yifrach, 19, and Gilad Shaer and Naftali Fraenkel, both 16, were abducted while hitchiking in the Israeli occupied West Bank on June 12 and killed.

Israel promptly accused Hamas, which is based in Gaza but has a presence in the West Bank, of masterminding the attack and began a crackdown on the group in which over a thousand Palestinians were arrested.

Tensions already ran deep in the West Bank after weeks of a mass hunger strike by Palestinian prisoners in Israeli jails.

Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal, who is in exile in Qatar, denied knowledge of the abduction but praised its perpetrators.

Nearly three weeks after the kidnappings, 16-year-old Mohammed Abu Khudair, a Palestinian living in East Jerusalem, was abducted, beaten and burned to death by, prosecutors said, a group of Jewish extremists.

Protests broke out in Abu Khudair's neighborhood and Hamas responded by firing rockets at Israel from Gaza.

That escalated into a full-scale war with Israel in which more than 2,000 Palestinians, most of them civilians, have been killed, as well as 64 Israeli soldiers and three civilians in Israel.

Two Palestinian suspects Israel has named as the kidnappers of the three seminary students remain at large.
Israel said a third suspect arrested by its security forces admitted under interrogation to organizing the kidnapping with funds from Hamas in Gaza.

[Dr. Trainwreck]

In that case, the moral thing would be for Hamas to target the house of every IDF reservist for rocket fire, right?

I heard of IDF stopping cargoes, but stealing international aid money to put in its own pocket... mind reminding me when it happened?

Destroying their homes, where their families are living, is in no way a proper response to corruption, dude.

[Omeganian]

In that case, the moral thing would be for Hamas to target the house of every IDF reservist for rocket fire, right?

I heard of IDF stopping cargoes, but stealing international aid money to put in its own pocket... mind reminding me when it happened?

Destroying their homes, where their families are living, is in no way a proper response to corruption, dude.

Whatever the proper response is, the comfort of the criminal's family is seldom considered of primary importance when administering it.

[His Divine Shadow]

That's good for Hamas to know when they distribute some justice against the criminal land thieving ethnic cleansing state of Israel, then.

[Omeganian]

That's good for Hamas to know when they distribute some justice against the criminal land thieving ethnic cleansing state of Israel, then.

Ehhh... is that sentence supposed to actually mean anything?

[Metahive]

It means that the next time some Israeli settlers get knifed by the people they're stealing the land from we just put your quote up there and the matter is settled.

[Omeganian]

It means that the next time some Israeli settlers get knifed by the people they're stealing the land from we just put your quote up there and the matter is settled.

So, according to you, it is immoral to put a murderer in jail just because he needs to feed his family?

[Dr. Trainwreck]

Whatever the proper response is, the comfort of the criminal's family is seldom considered of primary importance when administering it.

Do you even justice and collective punishment, bro?

[Omeganian]

Whatever the proper response is, the comfort of the criminal's family is seldom considered of primary importance when administering it.

Do you even justice and collective punishment, bro?

Is impounding a thief's bank account a collective punishment just because his wife has access to i?

[Dr. Trainwreck]

Is impounding a thief's bank account a collective punishment just because his wife has access to i?

I dunno, my turn: is rendering the whole family homeless justice because one of them did something wrong?

[His Divine Shadow]

So an israeli, a palestinian and a nazi walks into a bar. The IDF bombs the place, was it moral?

[Dr. Trainwreck]

Not just moral, but MOST MORAL.

[Omeganian]

Is impounding a thief's bank account a collective punishment just because his wife has access to i?

I dunno, my turn: is rendering the whole family homeless justice because one of them did something wrong?

Impounding a bank account can easily lead to that. But if you yourself, despite all the eagerness to criticize, cannot determine the morality of such an action, what do you want of others?

[Dr. Trainwreck]

Is impounding a thief's bank account a collective punishment just because his wife has access to i?

I dunno, my turn: is rendering the whole family homeless justice because one of them did something wrong?

Impounding a bank account can easily lead to that. But if you yourself, despite all the eagerness to criticize, cannot determine the morality of such an action, what do you want of others?

Let's go through both scenarios, you fucking shithead.

a) Locking down a bank account is an action taken to punish one individual. It might have knock-on effects on other people, but they are not intended and not guaranteed to happen.

b) Demolishing a suspect's (or even convicted person's) home, where his family is living, is an action taken to punish an entire family. I literally cannot think of a culture that used this measure to punish individuals, it is by definition used to take revenge against the entire clan.

But please, by all means, keep telling me how collective punishment is awesome.

[His Divine Shadow]

b) Demolishing a suspect's (or even convicted person's) home, where his family is living, is an action taken to punish an entire family. I literally cannot think of a culture that used this measure to punish individuals, it is by definition used to take revenge against the entire clan.

Israel?

[Dr. Trainwreck]

Israel?

You know what I mean.

[Omeganian]

b) Demolishing a suspect's (or even convicted person's) home, where his family is living, is an action taken to punish an entire family. I literally cannot think of a culture that used this measure to punish individuals, it is by definition used to take revenge against the entire clan.

A person in 2014 cannot google?

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2004/01/hrww-j17.html

[Dr. Trainwreck]

b) Demolishing a suspect's (or even convicted person's) home, where his family is living, is an action taken to punish an entire family. I literally cannot think of a culture that used this measure to punish individuals, it is by definition used to take revenge against the entire clan.

A person in 2014 cannot google?

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2004/01/hrww-j17.html

Which is supposed to prove what, that America does it too? Yeah, perhaps (I wouldn't exactly trust a site "Published by the International Committee of the Fourth International" unless I could find other sources). Is this supposed to mean that Israel's actions are fine and justified?

PS: Holy shit, did you even read your own article? Specifically the part where collective punishment is called a war crime? Or the part where it's against the Geneva Conventions to destroy civilian property for reprisals or deterrence?

[Patroklos]

In that case, the moral thing would be for Hamas to target the house of every IDF reservist for rocket fire, right?

Is that not what they are doing?