COVID-19 ongoing thread part 2

[mr friendly guy]

Sure, where the virus originated doesn't matter much, except when it comes to naming the virus. Covid19 and SARS-CoV-2 are names that don't care about the origins of the virus. But the people who want to use names that blame China are going to have to work harder to justify their racist naming now that there is doubt over where it originated.

The blame China narrative is strong because it came out first. Literally in these covid threads I have posted evidence that the virus was around in Western countries earlier than even when China first detected their cases, so by extension China responded faster to this new virus than western countries did, and in this thread people will find something else to blame China on.

[ray245]

Sure, where the virus originated doesn't matter much, except when it comes to naming the virus. Covid19 and SARS-CoV-2 are names that don't care about the origins of the virus. But the people who want to use names that blame China are going to have to work harder to justify their racist naming now that there is doubt over where it originated.

The blame China narrative is strong because it came out first. Literally in these covid threads I have posted evidence that the virus was around in Western countries earlier than even when China first detected their cases, so by extension China responded faster to this new virus than western countries did, and in this thread people will find something else to blame China on.

The problem that will arise in the future is to make countries more eager to hide the fact there's an outbreak.

[mr friendly guy]

Remember the US security guard that was shot after asking someone to put on a mask in compliance with that store's policy? Well some wankers in France just topped that, killing a bus driver for asking them to put on masks in compliance with policy governing passengers.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-12/ ... s/12446606

I am going to say, and its going to be unpopular, but whatever. Remember how people mentioned that people in the West could not believe an Asian country did better with fighting COVID than a western country? Why are we surprised when we see egregious acts like this? Or what about when people in Florida testifying about masks interfering with "God's breathing system." Or when France held the largest cosplay for people dressing up as smurfs while the virus was breaking.

You only need a small amount of people to ruin it for the majority who follow the rules, and there are enough people in some countries who just don't have a strong sense of civic duty to their fellow citizens.

[ray245]

Remember the US security guard that was shot after asking someone to put on a mask in compliance with that store's policy? Well some wankers in France just topped that, killing a bus driver for asking them to put on masks in compliance with policy governing passengers.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-12/ ... s/12446606

I am going to say, and its going to be unpopular, but whatever. Remember how people mentioned that people in the West could not believe an Asian country did better with fighting COVID than a western country? Why are we surprised when we see egregious acts like this? Or what about when people in Florida testifying about masks interfering with "God's breathing system." Or when France held the largest cosplay for people dressing up as smurfs while the virus was breaking.

You only need a small amount of people to ruin it for the majority who follow the rules, and there are enough people in some countries who just don't have a strong sense of civic duty to their fellow citizens.

There's similar cases of people in Singapore refusing to put on masks, so this isn't a problem unique to the West. The only difference is things are more tightly enforced in Singapore, so those people will just end up with massive fines.

The memory of SARS and MERS ( with much higher fatality rates) made the population in Hong Kong and in Korea more afraid of the potential risks.

[SolarpunkFan]

Of Course Disney World's Reopening Video Works as Horror

In celebration of Disney World’s reopening after shutting down earlier this year in response to the still ongoing coronavirus pandemic that’s killed over 130,000 people in the US alone, the Disney Parks and Jobs dropped a video over the weekend enthusiastically welcoming park guests “home.” Here, “home” refers to a theme park owned by a megacorporation.

The sentiment behind Disney’s video was simple and straightforward enough: “come back, please. It’s safe now.” Beyond simply opening Disney World back up to the general public, the company’s taken certain measures to ensure the safety of its employees and guests such as requiring everyone within the park to wear masks and creating new, free hand sanitizing stations. Fewer guests overall are being let into Disney World in order to make it easier for people to socially distance within the park, and various rides and attractions have been altered in order to encourage people not to cluster.

Were we at a point in our response to the coronavirus pandemic where the spread of the virus was under control and the country as a whole was more or less on the same page about what sort of measures we need to take in order to keep new outbreaks and spikes from occurring, video’s like Disney’s might be reassuring. But that’s not at all the case here in the US where Florida just broke the national record for a single-day jump of newly-reported positive coronavirus cases.

As states like Florida forward to reopen businesses and potentially send children back to school despite the fact that we have no means of preventing people from contracting the virus or reliably curing those who have it, it’s difficult to say what the larger plan of action is, exactly. For Disney, though, the goal now seems to be simply pulling people back in, which makes sense given that it’s a company in the business of making money.

Surprising absolutely no one, people quickly responded to the video by mocking it and pointing out that with a slight tweak to the music playing in the background, it could be easily reimagined as an ad for a horror film. In these trying times, dunking on brands’ social media presences is one of the few simple joys that some people are able to hold onto, but the sentiment at the heart of all the jokes is something worth taking into consideration.

Disney reopening video as an A24 trailer pic.twitter.com/lOawwk2nJa
— Christopher Hudspeth (@CEHudspeth) July 11, 2020

I put the Us trailer audio to the Disney ad pic.twitter.com/ZY6tELcS66
— Snore-antine (@TimSatre) July 11, 2020

The idea of purposefully getting together with a large crowd of strangers to stand around for a few hours in order to get on rides and eat overpriced food shaped like cartoon characters is, for many people, alarming because those are the kinds of conditions in which the coronavirus can spread. For all the measures that Disney’s taken to encourage people to behave responsibly by wearing their masks, washing their hands, and keeping those hands to themselves, it’s difficult to imagine a day at Disney World where all of those good habits would be uniformly practiced.

Much as Disney may want to project the aura of safety, simply by opening Disney World’s doors, the company’s inviting people from all across the country to flock to Orlando in the middle of a pandemic that the country is handling poorly beyond belief. So long as social distancing remains our best bet at merely slowing the virus’ spread, going on destination vacations to locations where people congregate simply won’t make sense, and videos like Disney’s are going to keep feeling like disconcerting attempts at trying to downplay the gravity of the situation.

As an aside: why should I get to miss out on all the fun?

[mr friendly guy]

Disneyland in California hasn't reopened yet. California was hit early, but I have been told its still getting high number of cases comparable to the red states that eased the lockdown early.

Now Disneyworld in Florida is reopening, and Florida is getting high number of new cases. I am going to make a guess based on reading Disney's own announcements about Disneyland's delayed reopening, the reason why Disneyworld is opening before Disneyland is because Florida has different guidelines to California. When I say different, I mean slacker guidelines.

I can understand why Disney theme parks in Asia are reopening, I just have a bad feeling about the one in Florida. And this is from a guy who loves Disneyworld.

[J]

Disney has to reopen, parks & resorts are around a third of their revenue. Also, their media revenues are in the toilet since their recent movies haven't met expectations and ESPN is dead since there's no sports to cover since all play has been suspended during the lockdowns. They need all the revenue they can get and it's approaching desperation time for them.

[ray245]

Disney has to reopen, parks & resorts are around a third of their revenue. Also, their media revenues are in the toilet since their recent movies haven't met expectations and ESPN is dead since there's no sports to cover since all play has been suspended during the lockdowns. They need all the revenue they can get and it's approaching desperation time for them.

Which is why there needs to be some form of government support to ensure those businesses will stay closed. Re-opening the parks early isn't helping anyone in the long run, because all it takes is another spike that rise as a result of Disneyworld re-opening for people to start turning away from those theme parks.

You will end up with some idiots that are willing to go there, but those people will not be enough to maintain the operating cost of opening the parks. I am usually not a backer of government giving corporation aid, but in this case this is necessary because of public health safety. Financial losses are going to happen even if you did not bail out Disney. So better to eat the cost upfront, ensure you can bring the peak down as quickly as possible, and once you've managed to do so, you can safely re-open the parks.

[Solauren]

I think it's ironic that one of the biggest, most capitalistic, corporate empires in the world, Disney, is in trouble because of how piss poor a very capitalist 'businessman-president' (re; Trump) and his administration has mishandled a disease.

Trump, you'll be known as the COVID-Depression president unless you smart up

[mr friendly guy]

Well in economics there is a term known as "Dutch disease" to describe how exporters lose manufacturing competitiveness, so we should now have Trump Johnson disease to describe how to screw up an economy during a pandemic by refusing to shut down when you needed to.

[mr friendly guy]

California shuts businesses again as coronavirus cases start to overwhelm hospitals

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-14/ ... n=business

Well I guess that answers the question about Disneyland reopening. Expect further delays.

[ray245]

I think it's ironic that one of the biggest, most capitalistic, corporate empires in the world, Disney, is in trouble because of how piss poor a very capitalist 'businessman-president' (re; Trump) and his administration has mishandled a disease.

Trump, you'll be known as the COVID-Depression president unless you smart up

Because companies are inherently short-sighted. There is a constant demand for profit, which is antithetical to what the role of the government is supposed to be. The notion of eating cost upfront for long-term benefit is not what most businesses are capable of doing. Some business certainly do make long-term investment (i.e. start-ups), but that's not common thinking amongst investors and shareholders.

[Solauren]

I think it's ironic that one of the biggest, most capitalistic, corporate empires in the world, Disney, is in trouble because of how piss poor a very capitalist 'businessman-president' (re; Trump) and his administration has mishandled a disease.

Trump, you'll be known as the COVID-Depression president unless you smart up

Because companies are inherently short-sighted. There is a constant demand for profit, which is antithetical to what the role of the government is supposed to be. The notion of eating cost upfront for long-term benefit is not what most businesses are capable of doing. Some business certainly do make long-term investment (i.e. start-ups), but that's not common thinking amongst investors and shareholders.

That's not entirely true.

Companies run and owned by a single, or small group of people (the original people) generally will eat long term costs. They have an emotional investment in the company and people, and remember the struggle to start-up, expand, grow. I've seen it numerous times at my job. Those are usually the companies that turn it around. Focused vision and all that.

It's companies with numerous investors and shareholders that lose that, because now they have to keep people with no real investment or vision in the company beyond 'make me as much money as I can before I dump your ass'.

[mr friendly guy]

First Trump blamed China, then he blamed Obama, now he is blaming Dr Fauci. We got to take bets on who he will blame next.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white- ... e-n1233612

I am going to predict he blames crooked Hilary next time.

[ray245]

That's not entirely true.

Companies run and owned by a single, or small group of people (the original people) generally will eat long term costs. They have an emotional investment in the company and people, and remember the struggle to start-up, expand, grow. I've seen it numerous times at my job. Those are usually the companies that turn it around. Focused vision and all that.

It's companies with numerous investors and shareholders that lose that, because now they have to keep people with no real investment or vision in the company beyond 'make me as much money as I can before I dump your ass'.

That's why I exclude start-ups. Disney on the other hand is not a start-up. They also used a massive amount of their reserve funds to acquire 20th century Fox. Now at nearly all of their businesses are affected ( save for Disney+), they are desperate to find new sources of revenue.

It's only a matter of time before a severe outbreak take place in Flordia's Disneyworld.

[Solauren]

I was also thinking of companies still owned by the original owners, decades later, or by kids that grew up in the business.

WWE comes to mind. They kept their percentage ownership by investors small, so if they need to, they can ignore them/buy them back off.

[mr friendly guy]

In 24 hours there have been 63 infringements in Victoria for breaking the lockdown rules. Including someone wanting to play Pokemon Go. I decided to look further and while I didn't get much info on a cursory search, I found that an Italian man did the same thing in March. It gives the phrase "got to catch them all," a new meaning.

[The Romulan Republic]

First Trump blamed China, then he blamed Obama, now he is blaming Dr Fauci. We got to take bets on who he will blame next.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white- ... e-n1233612

I am going to predict he blames crooked Hilary next time.

Biden, probably.

[mr friendly guy]

First Trump blamed China, then he blamed Obama, now he is blaming Dr Fauci. We got to take bets on who he will blame next.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white- ... e-n1233612

I am going to predict he blames crooked Hilary next time.

Biden, probably.

It turns out you guessed correct.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuWNGKafh8A

He now blames Biden for stopping testing.

[The Romulan Republic]

Trump is actually pretty easy to predict. Just imagine the most dishonest and ludicrous thing possible, the most self-serving thing possible, and in the space where those two circles overlap, you'll probably find your answer, or at least be in the right ballpark.

[madd0ct0r]

Speaking of dishonest and self serving - UK chums are making out like bandits on no competition contracts for mask provision.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... y-pandemic

Lots more in the link.

There are plenty of other cases: such as the employment agency with net assets of £623 that was awarded an £18m government contract to supply face masks; the confectionery wholesaler that according to the GLP was given a £100m contract to supply PPE; and the £250m channelled through a “family office” registered in Mauritius, specialising in currency trading, offshore property and private equity, also to supply protective medical equipment. Altogether, billions of pounds’ worth of contracts appear to have been granted, often to surprising companies, without competition. I think we may reasonably ask what the hell is going on.

This is not just about value for money, important as that is. Transparent, competitive tendering is a crucial defence against cronyism and corruption. It is essential to integrity in public life and public trust in politics. But the government doesn’t seem to care. As the scandal over Cummings’ trip to Durham shows, its strategy is to brazen out disgrace until public outrage subsides. We know it cheats and lies. It knows that we know, and it doesn’t care.

But these things matter. People die when the government gets them wrong. Our challenge is to discover how to make them count.

[The Romulan Republic]

US/Canada/Mexico border closures extended another 30 days:

https://cnn.com/2020/07/14/politics/us- ... index.html

[mr friendly guy]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2 ... d-19-data/

Trump administration recommends the National Guard as an option to help hospitals report coronavirus data
Move eliminates the CDC as a data recipient, raising concerns among public health experts

By
Lena H. Sun and
Amy Goldstein
July 15, 2020 at 11:00 a.m. GMT+8
The Trump administration is asking governors to consider sending the National Guard to hospitals to help improve data collection about novel coronavirus patients, supplies and capacity, according to a letter, internal emails and officials familiar with the plans.

The move is part of a new data reporting protocol for hospitals that eliminates the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention as a recipient of that information — a decision that is sparking controversy about whether or not the data is reliable.

In a letter to the nation’s governors that says the National Guard could help improve hospitals’ data flow, HHS Secretary Alex Azar and Deborah Birx, the White House’s Coronavirus Task Force response coordinator, say they ordered the changes because some hospitals have failed to report the information daily or completely. That portrayal, and the involvement of the National Guard, have infuriated hospital industry leaders, who say any data collection problems lie primarily with HHS and repeatedly shifting federal instructions.

The new protocol, to begin Wednesday, leaves health-care institutions to report information daily about covid-19, the disease caused by the novel virus, to a federal contractor or to their state, which would coordinate the federal reporting.

Public health experts say bypassing the CDC could harm the quality of data and the federal response to the coronavirus pandemic.

Under the reporting system that is ending, about 3,000 hospitals — or the health systems that own them — send detailed information about covid-19 patients and other metrics to the CDC’s long-standing hospital network, the National Healthcare Safety Network, or NHSN. CDC staff analyze the data and provide tailored reports to every state twice a week and multiple federal agencies every day, according to a federal health official who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss policy deliberations. These data are used by local health officials and policymakers to identify coronavirus trends in hospitals in their communities, the official said.

Some experts said the move could further marginalize the CDC, the government’s premier public health agency, at a time when the pandemic is worsening in most of the country, with records falling day by day of new infections.

“I worry greatly about cutting CDC out of these reporting efforts,” said Jennifer Nuzzo, an epidemiologist with the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health’s Center for Health Security. “I see little benefit from separating reporting of hospitalizations from reporting of cases, which CDC currently coordinates.”

The letter from Azar and Birx to the governors, which was sent out late Monday night or early Tuesday, backs away from earlier drafts that had as recently as late last week directed state leaders to deploy the National Guard to help hospitals with daily data submissions. It now includes the National Guard among states’ options for improving the data flow, according to copies of the letter obtained by The Washington Post from two individuals.

The idea of bringing in the Guard was first broached at a late June meeting with hospital industry leaders by Birx, according to two industry officials who attended and spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe private discussions.

“Given our track record of being cooperative to evolving data requests, it’s perplexing that the possibility of using the National Guard has been suggested,” said Rick Pollack, president of the American Hospital Association. “It makes no sense. Certainly the expertise of the National Guard can be used in a more productive way.”

At meetings Monday and Tuesday between HHS officials and hospital representatives and state health officers to discuss the new protocol, posted as an FAQ on the department’s website, there was no mention of the National Guard, according to a senior hospital industry official and other individuals present.

According to one senior administration official, speaking on the condition of anonymity about private conversations, the draft of the letter that had directed governors to deploy the National Guard was revised over the weekend.

The final version tells governors that the data submitted by hospitals and health officials “is not always complete or timely enough to be effective … We ask that you demand this of all of your hospitals, especially those that have failed to report daily or complete. Please insist that every hospital leader assign this reporting responsibility as a mission-critical assignment. If need be, you could consider prioritizing National Guard duties, in coordination with state health officers and emergency managers, to serve reporting needs for hospitals in the red zones."

The letter also says, “t is critical that we receive complete, accurate, daily hospital-level date in order to ensure that critical items such as therapeutics, testing supplies, and PPE are distributed efficiently and effectively across the country.” It says that, starting later this week, the daily data will be used to guide the following week’s federal distribution of remdesivir, an antiviral medication that is the only approved treatment for covid-19 patients.

The Washington Post also obtained two earlier drafts. One said the data being reported to federal health officials overseeing the response is “not always complete or timely, and we understand that staff are stretched and hospital systems are also stretched.” It was sent Sunday to dozens of federal health officials from a senior HHS official, Coast Guard Vice Adm. Daniel B. Abel, part of the HHS team overseeing the federal response to the pandemic, according to a federal health official who shared the document with The Post.

The senior administration official said the letter “changed significantly,” so governors will now be given a choice of ways they can bolster hospitals’ data reporting if that is necessary.

The earlier draft said: “We have been in dialogue with your health officials, hospital associations and hospitals over the past few months and working incrementally to improve the availability of key data but given the urgency in your state and hospitals, we are asking you to deploy the National Guard to these hospitals for these limited daily data collection.”

In an email exchange last Wednesday between Abel and HHS general counsel Robert P. Charrow, Abel said about 3,000 hospitals “do not report sufficient data at the frequency required to work COVID preventative measures,” according to copies of the emails shared by the federal health official. “One idea being discussed is to employ National Guard troops to be stationed in the hospitals with laptops/ipads to gather this data,” Abel added.

Charrow was asked whether this course of action was legally viable, and he replied that the Cares Act, a coronavirus relief package adopted by Congress early in the spring, may be “broad enough to permit us to request this information from each hospital on a daily basis,” he wrote. But he questioned whether this was a good idea.

“As a practical matter, I cannot imagine how the National Guard would be able to collect data at the hospital itself nor the number of Guards who would be exposed to COVID-19 in the process,” he wrote in one email. In another email earlier that day, he said, “I believe that using National Guard troops to gather these data would be counter-productive.”

According to one of the senior hospital industry officials, the possibility of bringing in the National Guard was broached at meetings June 26 and July 8 between Trump administration officials and hospital industry leaders — initially by Birx. “We just ignored it and said it’s silly,” said the hospital industry official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe private conversations.

“It was an offhand threat,” the industry official said. The official said Birx and representatives of HHS were expressing “undue frustration” at hospitals, mistakenly asserting that hospitals were not properly reporting data when, in reality, all but a few hospitals have been doing so. It was the HHS system on the receiving end that was flawed, the industry official said.

A coalition of hospital groups protested in a letter to Birx, saying that the industry has been complying with the data requests and that almost all hospitals have been submitting the required information.

Tuesday evening, Rep. Rosa L. DeLauro (D-Conn.), chairwoman of the House Budget Committee’s subcommittee that funds HHS, issued a statement accusing the department of acting “in direct violation with the law” by ordering hospitals to bypass the CDC in reporting coronavirus data. “HHS has been operating as a dangerous, political apparatus and cannot be trusted to share accurate hospital information with Congress and the American public,” DeLauro said.

Josh Dawsey and Ovetta Wiggins contributed to this report.

[PainRack]

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... =588618818

So...... Someone when told to be quarantined, decided to go elsewhere(Tahoe), walk around outside and go eat outdoors, because of course, you won't spread germs around because outdoors.

This is why a little knowledge is the most dangerous thing.

[mr friendly guy]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2020 ... t/12460724

Here is a section on antibodies and the coronavirus and want it means for vaccines. The cliff note version.

1. Antibodies don't last long. When I say long, we are talking about peaking at 3 weeks and may decline to nothing in 3 months. By 8 weeks a large proportion of patients had declining antibodies.

2. This doesn't necessarily mean a vaccine won't render someone immune. The specialist interview also mention what I have been saying in COVID threads, the body may still "remember" the virus, and have the ability to crank out antibodies when required. While the article doesn't mention this, it also leads to a conundrum. How do you know how long a vaccine protects you for? You can't tell by measuring antibodies, which is a common thing we do in clinical practice to prove someone is immune to a certain disease.

3. Antibodies are produced by B cells, but that's not the only arm of the immune system. We also have T cells and they also appear to attack SARS-CoV2, so maybe we can work on that line of research. Also T cells also remember the virus like B cells.