European refugee crisis thread

[Thanas]

Clearly the solution is to recreate the HRE. Just make sure not to give the catholics the reigns again...

[salm]

Indeed. FIFA should run the show from now on.

[Thanas]

Bribe everyone and everybody will like you. Genius.

Wait.

How is that different from the EU?

[salm]

I feel there´s a TTIP parallel in there somewhere but I can´t put my finger on it.

[Broomstick]

Another thing that should be obvious. It´s more difficult and more expensive and Obama made it clear that they won´t let them in.

Actually, around 200 Syrians were let in as refugees last year. The current US rule is that any involvement with any side of the Syrian civil war currently going on disqualifies a person from coming to the US. A rule that effectively prevents 99% from coming here. While you may or may not agree with the reasoning behind such a rule there was some thought behind it.

As I have said repeatedly this week that is currently under review and may well change. It will certainly be easier to change than the Dublin agreement rules affecting this migration because only one nation is involved. I certainly do hope there is a change there. The American public doesn't like to see dead kids on TV and the politicians are feeling some pressure.

In case anyone is unclear - people do not have to be in the US to apply for refugee status (or asylum, in the US there is a legal distinction between the two). Once they are approved to come to the US the US government will loan them the money to make the trip so they don't have to pay up front. Of course, they are also free to pay for their own ticket, the point being that they can obtain safe, reliable transportation to the US even if they have nothing but the clothes on their back. Once they are here they are issued a work authorization that makes it legal for them to be employed and they are expected and encouraged to look for work.

Syrians have been coming to the US since the 1880's, if not earlier. There's about 140,000 people of Syrian background already in the US, and they include such "scary" people as Steve Jobs (I'm sure you've all heard of him), Jerry Seinfeld (comedian/actor), Teri Hatcher (actor), Paula Abdul (musician), and Mitch Daniels (former governor of Indiana). As far as I'm concerned more are welcome.

Honest to god, I'm sick to death of hearing people say these folks are a threat. Yes, I'm sure in a crowd of a hundred thousand or a million you're going to have some bad apples in the mix but holy fuck, they're just people. Do you own and use an Apple product? If yes, you have Syrian cooties.

[Eleas]

In other news, Denmark, a country that 75 years ago sent its refugees over the sound safe in the knowledge that their cousins in Sweden would know what to do, is now flatly refusing refugees entry or even passage. History repeats itself, though, because the Danish government refused passage for the Jews back then, too.

Not sure if this will display, but this is a video of a danish policeman explaining that offering food or water to an immigrant may lead to two years of prison.

Of course, you can also puke on them or pretend to help them but ferry them straight to the police.

So this is were we are, right now, in 2015.

[His Divine Shadow]

My response to that:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlTukY9fV9Y

[Eleas]

Update: An article in Swedish. There's a video of people, beaten but still determined: they are chanting. They're calling the name of my home town. They may never reach it, because they are in Denmark, and the PM of Denmark has made a choice.

I find myself close to crying.

[mr friendly guy]

Once again Australia shows its leadership qualities in helping out the refugee crisis and showing why we really should have a seat with the UN big boys.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-08/c ... ke/6757110

Syrian migrant crisis: Christians to get priority as Abbott faces pressure to take in more refugees

Some choice quotes

Beyond the debate over numbers there is an argument over what kind of refugees should be accepted.

Government ministers, like Malcolm Turnbull, have argued for accepting more Syrian Christians, and Foreign Minister Julie Bishop has nominated minorities like the Yazidis.


AUDIO: Julie Bishop flags more talk on Syrian refugee intake; discusses political and military solutions (AM)
One backbencher told the ABC the message being sent to the Prime Minister by some in the Coalition was clear: "No more Muslim men".

Mr Turnbull said yesterday he was very concerned about the plight of Christian communities in Syria.

"They are a minority, they survived in Syria, they've been there for thousands of years, literally since the time of Christ," he said.

"But in an increasingly sectarian Middle East, you have to ask whether the, the gaps, the spaces that they were able to live and survive in will any longer be available."

Senate Leader Eric Abetz has also highlighted the case for Christians to be prioritised.

"It should be on the basis of need and given the Christians are the most persecuted group in the world, and especially in the Middle East, I think it stands to reason that they would be pretty high up on the priority list for resettlement."

How the fuck did we end up with these dipshits in power? Then I remembered the Liberal party did also suggest we take White Zimbabweans and ignore the Blacks being persecuted by the Mugabe regime, so I guess this is par for the course.



We are supposed to take the people most in need, not based on religion and then try some post hoc justification for it. I can understand poor to middle income countries not coping, but generally richer countries can, especially when we support one side in a war in that region which is causing the refugee crisis in the first place.

[K. A. Pital]

Christians are the most persecuted group? Really?

[salm]

Christians are the most persecuted group? Really?

Not all christians. Only white, male christians.

[Iroscato]

Christians are the most persecuted group? Really?

Not all christians. Only white, male christians.

And straight, don't forget straight. Absolutely straight as a ruler, yessir, why would you even think they're not?

[salm]

Christians are the most persecuted group? Really?

Not all christians. Only white, male christians.

And straight, don't forget straight. Absolutely straight as a ruler, yessir, why would you even think they're not?

The gays are comming to steal our women.

[Broomstick]

OK, Denmark isn't allowing new entrants. BUT, they aren't allowing the ones already there to proceed out of the country? And they can't get food or water?

WTF are they intending? Deny people food, water, free movement, or assistance and how long do you think they're going to behave? Or is this a tactic to provoke protests, thereby giving a pretext to label them criminals or terrorists or whatever and then lock them up in prisons?

Or am I missing something here?

[Eleas]

OK, Denmark isn't allowing new entrants. BUT, they aren't allowing the ones already there to proceed out of the country? And they can't get food or water?

WTF are they intending? Deny people food, water, free movement, or assistance and how long do you think they're going to behave? Or is this a tactic to provoke protests, thereby giving a pretext to label them criminals or terrorists or whatever and then lock them up in prisons?

Or am I missing something here?

They're playing for time. They want to round up the refugees now there, process them... and then presumably deport them "back to where they came."

No, it's not supposed to make sense, it's supposed to appease the overt racists who now dictate the terms of the debate.

[Broomstick]

It's also completely stupid if those people already want to go elsewhere and will do so if you just get the hell out of their way. Talk about a problem that solves itself!

That isn't just indifference, it's downright malicious.

[Eleas]

We have people on Facebook who gleefully describe how they made these refugees' lives more miserable. I don't think it unfair to attribute malice to them.

[Iroscato]

I'm seeing a fair few links to petitions to stop ALL immigration into the UK, though it's honestly getting hard to tell if they're mainly poes or not. They're also mostly on my dad's news feed - generation gap probably has something to do with it.

[Eleas]

This just in: people who have used their sailing boats to ferry refugees over have been arrested by the Swedish police... on charges of human smuggling.

[Thanas]

Meanwhile, our vice-chancellor has just stated that Germany could handle 500k refugees each year.

[Channel72]

Christians are the most persecuted group? Really?

Actually, as silly as it seems from a European perspective, Christians probably are one of the most persecuted groups, in the sense that very large numbers of Christians (I should actually say mostly Catholics and Coptic Catholics/Orthodox) are regularly persecuted in the Middle East and Africa. I mean, the Christian population in Iraq has been decimated - Coptics in Egypt are under constant threats - pretty much only Lebanon and Jordan are the safest places for a Christian living in the Levant right now. There's also quite a bit of persecution in Sudan, Ethiopia, Nigeria and other places in Sub-Saharan Africa, as well as Indonesia. (I won't count blanket persecution of all religions, like in North Korea, as specifically Christian persecution.)

Anyway, I'm not sure of another group that, numerically speaking, is as often or as consistently persecuted as Christians in modern times (like the last decade or so). Other commonly persecuted groups, like Tibetans in China, Jews in the Middle East (outside of Israel), or Muslims in Eastern Europe, aren't persecuted as harshly in terms of numbers or consistency as Christians. There's certainly been bouts of persecution against Muslims in many places, like India, and obviously the ethnic cleansing in Yugoslavia in the 90s, but this persecution has been way more limited in time and space - it hasn't been as ongoing, as consistent or as widespread as the persecution of Christians in the Middle East and Africa.

It's simply that, since like a billion Christians in North/South America, Europe and Asia are not being persecuted (and in fact, are pretty much running the show and often doing lots of persecuting of their own) the idea of Christianity as a persecuted minority seems almost comical - but objectively, it's really not. It also seems particularly comical from an American perspective, where American Christians regularly complain about persecution over the most trivial things, like a fucking "Holiday Tree" at Macys, meanwhile Christians in Syria are being slaughtered by the hundreds every day.

Edit: I'm also not counting intra-Muslim Sunni/Shia persecution, which is ongoing, and probably worse than Christian persecution numerically speaking.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Beyond all this feel-good decisions, are there any concrete plans to integrate these people properly, or will there be another problem with integration as it is with the Turkish minority in Germany?

[Thanas]

Beyond all this feel-good decisions, are there any concrete plans to integrate these people properly, or will there be another problem with integration as it is with the Turkish minority in Germany?

Nobody knows how it will work out, but the fact that a lot of the refugees seem to come from the middle class is a much better starting point than unskilled labor from Anatolia who have never been exposed to academics or culture.

[LaCroix]

Beyond all this feel-good decisions, are there any concrete plans to integrate these people properly, or will there be another problem with integration as it is with the Turkish minority in Germany?

Nobody knows how it will work out, but the fact that a lot of the refugees seem to come from the middle class is a much better starting point than unskilled labor from Anatolia who have never been exposed to academics or culture.

Also, this time, experience shows that they will not be guests for some time, but rather be here to stay, thus integration programs are already in place. With the Turkish "Gastarbeiter" immigrants, people simply didn't care about them until they became a huge subculture that they had to notice (~10 years later, when their families had moved over, wholesale, and their kids showed up in schools)

For example, there are special classes already in place in Austria so that the refugee children could also start school along with all other kids this week, with emphasis on language class to get them proficient in German as quickly as possible, in order to move them over into normal classes.

[salm]

For example, there are special classes already in place in Austria so that the refugee children could also start school along with all other kids this week, with emphasis on language class to get them proficient in German as quickly as possible, in order to move them over into normal classes.

Yeah, a friend of mine teaches such classes. The kids go to regular school but some of the refugees kids hours are specially dedicated to learning German and general German stuff. They also cooperate with businesses and try to get internships and stuff like that at a relatively early age. Or they just take them to cultural things like churches, museums or simply swimming in a lake or the beer garden.