US Election 2024: Grumpy Old Men

[Tribble]

I guess it could be good if someone would put up a good candidate in opposition to him. It should be an easy thing but both parties always cater to the extreme elements of their base when they'd have an easy win if they went more middle of the road.

...Please, tell me about these extreme non-middle of the road candidates the Democrats always cater to.

Well, Democrats support things like abortions, homosexuals, women, Medicare, education, non-whites, non-Christians, combatting pollution and climate change, taxing corporations and wealthy at higher rates, etc. Not to mention the concept of a “Democratic” form of government.

They’re all a bunch of socialist extremists as far as Republicans are concerned, which is why they want their Orange Hitler to put them in their place!

[Solauren]

Trump's secret service protection is going to complicate sticking him into a prison. So it seems more likely that any prison sentence will be served with him locked up at a military base.

Solitary Confinement, High Security prison. He's the only one in that wing, and the guards are all secret service, seperate entrance, etc.

[Ralin]

Just going off word of mouth here but I've heard that US military prisons don't have anything like the gang and violence issues that regular prisons do because the military has decided to aggressively not tolerate that shit. If they want an alternative to solitary confinement/house arrest/country club they could probably do worse than to put him in a cell there and assign two Secret Service agents to being his minders all day.

Or just, you know. Tell the Secret Service to fuck off because the parts of the government that run state prisons don't actually answer to them. What are they going to do? Raid the place?

[bilateralrope]

Or just, you know. Tell the Secret Service to fuck off because the parts of the government that run state prisons don't actually answer to them. What are they going to do? Raid the place?

So we have a conflict between state prisons (do they have a state law backing them here ?) and federal law. That sounds like a case for SCOTUS. With the current justices, that's probably going to be an injunction that frees Trump until they get round to actually hearing the case.

Meaning more time for him to keep spouting bullshit to everyone. When it comes to Trump, I think the most important part of any incarceration is shutting him up.

Solitary Confinement, High Security prison. He's the only one in that wing, and the guards are all secret service, seperate entrance, etc.

Lets hear how you justify throwing a non-violent offender into permanent solitary in a high security prison.

Also there is the question of what to do with the prisoners who would otherwise be in that ring.

[Solauren]

Solitary Confinement, High Security prison. He's the only one in that wing, and the guards are all secret service, seperate entrance, etc.

Lets hear how you justify throwing a non-violent offender into permanent solitary in a high security prison.

Also there is the question of what to do with the prisoners who would otherwise be in that ring.

Existing prisoners? Shuffle them to other prisons. There have to be a few that could handle that.

And non-violent? I'll admit that.

BUT, he's also be what is probably the most unique prisoner in the history of the United States. In terms of security needed to prevent people trying to kill him for his actions, or trying to free him as a rallying point, I'd put him in the same league as defendants in the Nuremberg trials (Note: I am not calling him a Nazi. He's just as high profile and as big a security concern as they were).

IF he goes to jail, the United States has a legal responsibility to keep him safe. Both as a former POTUS, and as a prisoner. There is absolutely no way to do that, with him being anywhere near Gen-Pop in any prison.

Why?

Being the prisoner that iced Trump, despite prison guards and secret service. What is that worth? In terms of fame/infamy, and the like? What's it worth for your people on the outside? Everyone that can prove they had any long term connection to you could easily get a book deal out of it.

So, you need to keep him completely isolated, for his own safety. That is solitary confinement.

Now, given his age, the negative effects of solitary confinement, and the fact the idiot will probably try to run in 2028 if he's not re-elected this time, I agree traditional solitary confinement is probably not the best choice for his health. Also, he is a former POTUS that was not removed from office by the government.

So, how about this then..
Solitary Confinement in his could would have to be - isolated from all other prisoners. His only interaction with anyone associated with the prison system, is with Secret Service Agents assigned to him.

Maybe in the equal of a reasonably sized one bedroom apartment. Probably one without windows.

He can still have visitors (i.e his family, his lawyer).

But, he has to be in high security to keep people from trying to get him out.


However, after thought, Military Prison would probably be a better choice, unless we can get Alcatraz refurbished to hold him.

[Gandalf]

Well, Democrats support things like abortions, homosexuals, women, Medicare, education, non-whites, non-Christians, combatting pollution and climate change, taxing corporations and wealthy at higher rates, etc. Not to mention the concept of a “Democratic” form of government.

They’re all a bunch of socialist extremists as far as Republicans are concerned, which is why they want their Orange Hitler to put them in their place!

The Dems have drifted so far to the right, that now they're praising Dick Cheney for saying that he will vote for Harris.

I remember when he was a terrifying villain, but apparently now he's a great American hero.

[Ralin]

So we have a conflict between state prisons (do they have a state law backing them here ?) and federal law.

Backing up that they can incarcerate people sentenced to prison after being convicted of crimes or a state law in any way mentioning the Secret Service and how prisons are supposed to interact with requests from it?

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Punchy Harris rattles Trump in election debate

Philadelphia might be called the city of brotherly love, but after an initial handshake there was little warmth in the presidential debate studio last night.

Almost immediately Kamala Harris and Donald Trump clashed on the economy, and the fiery sparring continued right to the end.

There were so many eye-catching moments that drew gasps from the several hundred journalists watching the debate in the spin room, as Harris attempted to throw rhetorical punches.

Trump ducked and dived as he evaded answers.

Harris used all her prosecutorial skills, honed from her time as California's attorney-general, to set the arguments against Trump and the dangers he poses.

But it was when she suggested supporters at his rallies left early because they were exhausted and bored that Trump lost control.

Strategically, this was a failure for the Republicans, who had hoped Trump would deliver a disciplined forward-facing message.

Instead, on immigration and abortion, Trump made lurid claims, which were immediately shot down by the fact-checking moderators.

From illegal migrants eating pet dogs to full-term babies being executed by abortion clinics, the litany of lies and exaggerations was difficult to keep up with.

This wasn't all good news for the Democrats though.

Harris appeared to have few answers on how she would reduce prices and help middle-class families struggling with inflation.

But on the threat posed by Trump, she was articulate and robust. Her goading of Trump on Ukraine provoked him into saying he would sue for peace with Vladimir Putin even before he was inaugurated, which would be illegal.

He doubled down on both his election denial and his role in the January 6 riot, offering Harris the chance to tell viewers how she was in the Capitol that day, as the violent mob attacked policemen outside.

It was perhaps a sign of his realisation the evening hadn't gone well, that Trump made the highly unusual decision to appear in the spin room himself, attempting to suck the oxygen of publicity away from Democrat surrogates who were arguing he'd lost.

But despite his impromptu press conference and an appearance on the right wing channel Fox News, Trump was facing a tide of opinion suggesting he'd been defeated in the debate.

The final blow came from pop superstar Taylor Swift, whose endorsement of Harris may shift more votes than the 90 minutes of argument between the two candidates.

And yet despite Harris' superiority in the first and possibly only debate with Trump, this remains an election of incredibly fine margins.

Many voters are still undecided and it's unclear whether her night in Philadelphia's National Constitution Centre will translate to victory on November 5.

[Batman]

Strategically, this was a failure for the Republicans who had hoped Trump would deliver a disciplined forward-facing message.

Where have those Republicans been living these past few years? The Lesser Magellanic Cloud?

'

[Steve]

The media has to say things like that to maintain the illusion that the political system isn't completely warped due to National Populism and how Trump's manipulated it.

[Gandalf]

Also, the spectacle of a closer race brings more ratings. Donald Trump's wild ride isn't the draw it was in 2016, so they need to rebrand it somewhat.

[Rogue 9]

Well, Democrats support things like abortions, homosexuals, women, Medicare, education, non-whites, non-Christians, combatting pollution and climate change, taxing corporations and wealthy at higher rates, etc. Not to mention the concept of a “Democratic” form of government.

They’re all a bunch of socialist extremists as far as Republicans are concerned, which is why they want their Orange Hitler to put them in their place!

The Dems have drifted so far to the right, that now they're praising Dick Cheney for saying that he will vote for Harris.

I remember when he was a terrifying villain, but apparently now he's a great American hero.

So, Dick Cheney was a terrifying villain, but remember how the Iraq War was sold: Yes, the WMD nonsense, but also toppling the dictator and spreading Freedom™. The neoconservatives actually believed that, and so are not going to back someone, even someone ostensibly of their own party (Trump's policy positions bear next to no resemblance to the Republican Party of 20 years ago) who wants to terminate the Constitution and rule as a dictator. That he's endorsing Harris purely to keep Trump out of office does not mean the Democrats are drifting right, and they'd be fools to reject support on the grounds of their only credible opposition being a threat to American democracy; it doesn't mean they're going to adopt Cheney's policy positions.

[Solauren]

If anything, it shows how far off the rails Trump is, when hardcore, respected ex-elected Republican officials are going 'this guy is bad for the country, even on our ticket'

In comic book terms, this is just Dr. Doom deciding to help the Avengers because he doesn't want Thanos to kill half of all life.
Or Lex Luthor helping the Justice League in a fight with Darkside.

[Rogue 9]

It occurs to me that in a parliamentary system such an endorsement would mean adopting policy positions, giving Cabinet posts, etc, in exchange for coalition support but the U.S. Presidential system doesn't have that quirk; for better or worse, it's winner take all and the President does not depend upon a legislative coalition for his or her tenure, so this doesn't mean the same thing that it would in a Westminster system democracy.

[Tsyroc]

...Please, tell me about these extreme non-middle of the road candidates the Democrats always cater to.

I guess that's a fair point as far as who they put forward for president. They certainly do better than the Republicans at staying towards the middle.