Brexit and General UK politics thread

[His Divine Shadow]

Because I think HDS is merely blowing off steam instead of really trying to have a go at me and thus I rate this as a childish tantrum and nothing more.

No it's what I think of your idiot opinion that corbyn "should've done better" when he exceeded all expectations, smashed the odds, toppled 2 years work of personal attacks from his own party, everything that the murdoch press could throw against him, the whole fucking deck has never been so stacked against a single man for having the audacity not to be a triangulating hollow centrist piece of shit politician.

So yeah it's a piece of shit opinion to have and I think less of you (and anyone else) for expressing it and if people don't like it they can just eat their own shit.

[Thanas]

Because I think HDS is merely blowing off steam instead of really trying to have a go at me and thus I rate this as a childish tantrum and nothing more.

No it's what I think of your idiot opinion that corbyn "should've done better" when he exceeded all expectations, smashed the odds, toppled 2 years work of personal attacks from his own party, everything that the murdoch press could throw against him, the whole fucking deck has never been so stacked against a single man for having the audacity not to be a triangulating hollow centrist piece of shit politician.

So yeah it's a piece of shit opinion to have and I think less of you (and anyone else) for expressing it and if people don't like it they can just eat their own shit.

I would think that a capable opposition leader should be able to deliver a victory against:

- the government party cocking up the biggest issue of their time
- the government party seemingly poised to throw the economy into chaos
- the government party passing a manifesto that pretty much can be summed up with "We are going to screw everybody over except for our rich buddies"
- the government party getting lambasted by trade, industry and workers organizations for having no plan
- the government party telling one third of the country to just fuck off because they dont matter
- the government party running one of the worst campaigns in history

Even a semi-capable opposition leader should be able to deliver victory against that. He is not a capable opposition leader. He had the deck stacked in his favour in this election and he still was not able to deliver victory.

Look at the facts for a second, maybe that will help you with your personal lionizing of somebody who is not able to deliver victory under the most favourable circumstances possible.

[His Divine Shadow]

Go fuck yourself you piece of shit.

[ray245]

The question is, would New Labour been able to do better?

[Bernkastel]

I doubt it. At a minimum, I know I would not have voted if another blairite had been leading Labour.

[K. A. Pital]

Go fuck yourself you piece of shit.

That's just insults without any substance. Consider it a warning, HDS. You're better than this.

That aside, you've made your point already (Corbyn and Labour under him did do much better than everyone expected), and it is strong enough to stand on its own.

[Vendetta]

The question is, would New Labour been able to do better?

No.

They'd have done what Milliband did in 2015, run a vaguely centrist platform with little to no meat on it in the name of being "electable" and everyone would have ignored them.

- the government party seemingly poised to throw the economy into chaos
- the government party passing a manifesto that pretty much can be summed up with "We are going to screw everybody over except for our rich buddies"
- the government party getting lambasted by trade, industry and workers organizations for having no plan

The press (that people read, the Mail and the Sun) report barely any of that. The Tories can be as big a set of fuckups as they like and they'll get absolutely no criticism from the British press. In large part because Theresa May was going to drop the Leveson report into press misbehaviour and the Section 40 rule that would put the press on the hook for more of their own legal costs.

No matter how repeatedly and obviously terrible Theresa May was, the press would ignore or downplay it and attack Corbyn because they've got their own reasons to want him to lose (even above and beyond the fact they're owned by billionaire tax dodgers like Paul Dacre). This was done with many of the most transparent tactics imaginable, quote mining, misrepresentation of fact, and so on.

That plus the fact that Corbyn has spent as much time having to fight his own party (who despite being in the nominally left party in British politics hated the idea of trying to run a leftist platform) meant that the deck was far more heavily stacked against him in the minds of the electorate.

(I suspect part of the reason the support of Corbyn by age breaks down the way it does is because young people don't read the papers and old people do).

[Gandalf]

- the government party running one of the worst campaigns in history

I trimmed it to this one because I find it the most interesting detail.

I can't for the life of me work out why they called the election years before it was necessary if the candidate was going to be nigh-invisible anyway. It's not like there hadn't been a high profile example of a populist beating a safe incumbent within the previous year.

[jwl]

So after the worst campaign in recent history run by the conservatives, Corbyn still could not deliver a parliamentary majority.

Thanas, even Peter Mandelson was willing to admit Corbyn did well here, give the guy a break.

[Zaune]

I also find it extremely unlikely that we'd have got even this much progress if Owen Smith or one of the Miliblands were leader instead of Corbyn. We certainly wouldn't have got this kind of turnout from the under-thirties.

[folti78]

- the government party running one of the worst campaigns in history

I trimmed it to this one because I find it the most interesting detail.

I can't for the life of me work out why they called the election years before it was necessary if the candidate was going to be nigh-invisible anyway. It's not like there hadn't been a high profile example of a populist beating a safe incumbent within the previous year.

Theresa May's leadership competency at work:

Her (unspoken, though very transparent) reason was that just 2 months ago, they had a 20 points lead on Labour on the approval ratings, and expected that approval rating to be transferred into some new seats taken from Labour in an election. Seats she thought she'd need to buffer against parts of her parties hardliners (the ones wanting a hard Brexit, but a lot more loyal minions are always better).

Thus she called a snap election. Then neither she, nor her party did any actual campaigning at all, barring some events to pre-screened crowds, and not attending public debates. Both can be chalked up to her lack of personality, and inability to talk to people without falling back to soundbites, which sound more and more empty at every repeat. And released a manifesto that can be summed up with the words "Fuck you plebians", and made some promises, that infuriated the old people camp.

Labour, on the other hand, released a rather reasonable manifesto, and did quite a lot of active campaigning, including a mass mobilization of the youth vote.

It's the perfect example of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, due to complacency and/or incompetency.

[Dartzap]

The precipitous fall from predicted 'landslide' to minority Govt was wholly avoidable; the result of hubris & a failure to listen. That inevitably has consequences for our negotiating position given the need for Parliamentary agreement to the final deal on Brexit. There will now need to be greater debate & involvement of the Commons during the course of negotiations. How far will all Parties be prepared to work constructively in the national interest? A key test for our elected representatives. Public needs to see more evidence of Parties working constructively in national interest rather than divisive point scoring.


As I'm getting hundreds of emails on this..
1. I will always oppose the death penalty & would resign if others imposed it. They won't. 2. I will always support the right for women to choose & access safe termination of pregnancy & will oppose any change to the legislation. 3. I will never agree to any dilution of LGBT rights. 4. Creationism in schools? Hell no. 5. If any of that is a condition of confidence and supply it simply won't work.

I'm getting the feeling my MP (Sarah Wollaston) isn't particular keen on the DUP pact.

[ray245]

And now even Donald Trump is abandoning May.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... ut-on-hold

[EnterpriseSovereign]

And now even Donald Trump is abandoning May.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... ut-on-hold

Well it's not like he's going to ask himself why people might protest Though I'd have thought it would be more like him to attend in spite of this, as a form of "Fuck you!".

[ray245]

It would be hilarious if Theresa May is stupid enough to stop all anti-Trump protest to encourage him to come over.

[Dartzap]

Michael Gove has returned from his woodland retreat to run Defra. A sure sign that everyone expects Bojo to try and take control!

[Thanas]

[Eternal_Freedom]

Ironically enough that video isn't available to watch if you're in the UK.

[mr friendly guy]

Ironically enough that video isn't available to watch if you're in the UK.

Not available in Australia as well. Fortunately that's what a VPN is for.

[Dartzap]

Apparently the DUP demands arnt passing the 'smell' test convincingly enough for Treasury to green light the deal.

[The Romulan Republic]

Does that mean the coalition is going to go belly-up already, and we might have PM Corbyn by the fall?

Fingers crossed.

[Crazedwraith]

I actually hope they hang on long enough to get the rap for Brexit negotiations being shit.

Also it's still not going to be a coalition. It's a Tory Minority Government with propping up on certain votes from the DUP.

[Bedlam]

I think Corbin being willing to go with a minority Labour government is a bad idea, its a none of the power all the blame situation which could torpedo any potential majority labour government if we end up going to the polls again in a few months.

[Zaune]

Does that mean the coalition is going to go belly-up already, and we might have PM Corbyn by the fall?

Fingers crossed.

We should be so lucky.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Because I think HDS is merely blowing off steam instead of really trying to have a go at me and thus I rate this as a childish tantrum and nothing more.

No it's what I think of your idiot opinion that corbyn "should've done better" when he exceeded all expectations, smashed the odds, toppled 2 years work of personal attacks from his own party, everything that the murdoch press could throw against him, the whole fucking deck has never been so stacked against a single man for having the audacity not to be a triangulating hollow centrist piece of shit politician.

So yeah it's a piece of shit opinion to have and I think less of you (and anyone else) for expressing it and if people don't like it they can just eat their own shit.

I would think that a capable opposition leader should be able to deliver a victory against:

- the government party cocking up the biggest issue of their time
- the government party seemingly poised to throw the economy into chaos
- the government party passing a manifesto that pretty much can be summed up with "We are going to screw everybody over except for our rich buddies"
- the government party getting lambasted by trade, industry and workers organizations for having no plan
- the government party telling one third of the country to just fuck off because they dont matter
- the government party running one of the worst campaigns in history

Even a semi-capable opposition leader should be able to deliver victory against that. He is not a capable opposition leader. He had the deck stacked in his favour in this election and he still was not able to deliver victory.

Look at the facts for a second, maybe that will help you with your personal lionizing of somebody who is not able to deliver victory under the most favourable circumstances possible.

Every single press in the UK was making Corbyn look like the second coming of Satan. Even the Guardian, a so-called Left wing paper dissed him. Honestly, the deck was so stacked against Corbyn that the fact that he still pulled off a good increase in Labour representation is remarkable.

And quite frankly, a good reason why the Tories still did reasonably well was they went rightward enough that they picked up the UKIP vote. Hilarious isn't it?