Anonymous vs Scientology!

[Darth Wong]

I love the way Christians who try to bash Scientology pick on the fact that they try to keep certain secrets to themselves. Meanwhile, Mormons have all kind of secret shit, the Catholics will never open up their books despite expecting tax exemptions everywhere, and for that matter, the Catholic Church once tried to keep the Bible an exclusively in-house document.

[Shroom Man 777]

Once upon a time, even their prayers and masses couldn't be understood by the common man who couldn't speak Church Latin.

Maybe the Scientologists encode their Thetan Files with Enigma Machines.

[Illuminatus Primus]

It does, but on the other hand, someone in the area may google Lisa McPherson as a result of the protest and then hopefully that'll be one more mind set against Scientology's progression as an organisation.

You really need to live next to Flag Land Base in Clearwater, FL, in order to see what Scientology is and how loony their minions are. As it happens, my father works at the hospital where McPherson was prevented from getting treatment by her handlers (Morton Plant Hospital).

[montypython]

I love the way Christians who try to bash Scientology pick on the fact that they try to keep certain secrets to themselves. Meanwhile, Mormons have all kind of secret shit, the Catholics will never open up their books despite expecting tax exemptions everywhere, and for that matter, the Catholic Church once tried to keep the Bible an exclusively in-house document.

There had been stories of selective editing in the Christian bible dating back to the Imperial Roman period, yet it is quite unfortunate that people aren't more aware of all the doctrinal BS that popped up.

[General Zod]

There had been stories of selective editing in the Christian bible dating back to the Imperial Roman period, yet it is quite unfortunate that people aren't more aware of all the doctrinal BS that popped up.

"Which" Christian Bible? There's at least half a dozen versions of the same book because some king or other didn't like what it said on one or two minor subjects.

[montypython]

There had been stories of selective editing in the Christian bible dating back to the Imperial Roman period, yet it is quite unfortunate that people aren't more aware of all the doctrinal BS that popped up.

"Which" Christian Bible? There's at least half a dozen versions of the same book because some king or other didn't like what it said on one or two minor subjects.

The one that Saint Jerome translated was supposed to be the 'standard' one, but as a matter of course arguments over dogma made things muddier than what the Christians wished to present.

[Surlethe]

I love the way Christians who try to bash Scientology pick on the fact that they try to keep certain secrets to themselves. Meanwhile, Mormons have all kind of secret shit, the Catholics will never open up their books despite expecting tax exemptions everywhere, and for that matter, the Catholic Church once tried to keep the Bible an exclusively in-house document.

There had been stories of selective editing in the Christian bible dating back to the Imperial Roman period, yet it is quite unfortunate that people aren't more aware of all the doctrinal BS that popped up.

Oh, yeah. The Catholic Bible wasn't set in stone until the Council of Trent after the Reformation; the canon was generally accepted, but there was certainly room for editing. Any shift in the Catholic Bible is minor compared to the upheaval during and after the Reformation -- the Reformers removed multiple books they disagreed with and edited the scriptures to conform with their personal ideologies.

In fact, this is reflected in the wider questions of doctrines: the Catholic doctrines and dogmas have not shifted much since the early days of the church; meanwhile, Protestants schismed early and schismed often over questions of doctrine, and they're still doing it (for a high-profile example of this, look at the row in the Episcopalian church over gay bishops). Of course, the Catholic solidarity is because of the church's power in the Medieval era and its consequent ability and willingness to prosecute heretics. In Protestant churches, that's almost entirely gone (although if Huckabee wins ...), which is why they speciate constantly.

[Warsie]

I wonder if there is any sociological precedent for this level of coordinated networking and group activity while remaining anonymous. It's almost like Anonymous is its own organism.

it's like Fight Club...or for a closser RL thing; the Ron Paul Campaign

[Warsie]

I wonder if there is any sociological precedent for this level of coordinated networking and group activity while remaining anonymous. It's almost like Anonymous is its own organism.

I also forgot: Flash Mobs and the like are similar to this

[Warsie]

Why the fuck do these people think that protesting outside Scientology centres will deter them at all? A feeling of persecution only gives people a bunker mentality and hardens their resistance to outside influence.

Anyone with half a brain should realize that this is why Bill O'Reilly and his ilk continually try to manufacture such a sense of persecution for white Christian men even where no justification whatsoever exists. Far from hurting the unity of a religious group, it strengthens it.

They are not trying to destroy the religion, but they are trying to destroy the church organization

ello, followers of Scientology. We are Anonymous.

We direct this message to you in good faith, with hopes that you better understand our motivations. Anonymous differentiates the actions of the leaders of your church from yourselves, and therefore wishes to assist you in this critical time. We ask that you take a moment to consider our message.

The Church of Scientology promises you the study of truth, and the better understanding of life. The Church promises personal salvation and the betterment of one's self. It strives for evolution to a higher state of being. These are goals most individuals have always endeavored for, but rarely attain.

So we ask you, have you ever considered why monetary assets are required to achieve this cardinal step of evolution? If Scientology is capable of bringing mankind into a new way of being, then why must its followers provide large sums of currency over extended periods in order to progress through the ranks of better understanding? An advanced society would recognize the importance of knowledge, and freely provide it to all those who wish to seek its bounty. Scientology leaders act against this doctrine, and vigorously fight to keep materials from public view. These actions only serve to benefit the leadership of Scientology, and not its followers.

The Church of Scientology has also been known to ask its followers to sever ties with friends and family when they are not also members of the church. We ask you to consider this, and why this segregation must occur in order for its followers to improve ones self. Family and friends provide a strength that others cannot, and would be an important asset in the effort of self improvement. Scientology leaders discourage this, because they do not wish you to discuss the practices of the church with outsiders. These actions only serve to benefit the leadership of Scientology, and not its followers.

Another critical issue is the legal history of the Church of Scientology. The church often refutes these illegal practices, and informs its followers that any such information is a fabrication, created to discredit the church and its members. But we ask you, have you ever investigated these claims for yourself? There are many official documents available which confirm the involvement of the Church of Scientology and its members in the very crimes it denies. One example is Mary Sue Hubbard herself, who pleaded guilty and was convicted of conspiracy against the United States of America, during "Operation Snow White".

The Church of Scientology is also known for its strong oppression of critics. We ask you, why would an organization striving to improve mankind feel the need to silence and discredit those who oppose its views? Such policies are not congruent with the publicly established goals of Scientology, nor are they the actions of an enlightened group.

The leadership of the Church of Scientology does not wish you to know of these kinds of events, but we ask that you examine these actions and the many accusations against the Church of Scientology, and come to your own conclusions of their legitimacy. Not doing so only serves to benefit the leadership of Scientology, and not its followers.

We conclude this message to reinforce our position of guidance and support to the followers of the Church of Scientology. If you are one of the many living in fear of the church, for your free-thinking or your desire to leave, then now is your time to assist in the movement against your oppressors.

Knowledge is free.

We are Anonymous.

We are Legion.

We do not forgive.

We do not forget.

Expect us.

[Warsie]

[
Maybe to fight Scientology, these Anons should go with information saturation instead. Dispersing the truth about Scientology, but in a way that they won't get sued. Like Al Gore's Global Warming thing, or Micheal Moore's stuff, but through P2P networks or through internet sites hosted in places that Scientologists' army of lawyers can't touch.

They have been doing that actually; search on thepiratebay.org

[loomer]

Well, an Anon has been interviewed on Today Tonight, one of our crappier current affairs programs. But the fact is, they're out on TV, on a widely watched show. Things are getting interesting.

[Stark]

BOGAN Tonight, you mean. The most ignorant news show concievable by Australians.

[Surlethe]

They interviewed Anon? How did they manage that? Or was it a few people claiming to be Anonymous' representatives?

[SilverWingedSeraph]

They interviewed Anon? How did they manage that? Or was it a few people claiming to be Anonymous' representatives?

It was one "Anonymous" person being interviewed, with their voice all digitised and their face concealed in shadows. Y'know, that whole deal. Also, for anyone who hasn't already seen the video to Anonymous from "the Voiceless", you can watch it here. It's good to see that Anonymous is helping, even just a little bit.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Generally Anonymous has wanted to avoid sending representatives to the media because, well, they aren't anonymous. Unfortunately, the media needs to put SOMEONE in front of a camera, and the nature of the organization is such that you can't claim someone ISN'T Anonymous. Its like trying to talk to the head of the Athenian Senate, anyone will do.

[Darth Wong]

Why the fuck do these people think that protesting outside Scientology centres will deter them at all? A feeling of persecution only gives people a bunker mentality and hardens their resistance to outside influence.

Anyone with half a brain should realize that this is why Bill O'Reilly and his ilk continually try to manufacture such a sense of persecution for white Christian men even where no justification whatsoever exists. Far from hurting the unity of a religious group, it strengthens it.

They are not trying to destroy the religion, but they are trying to destroy the church organization

<snip>

So? Do you honestly think Scientologists haven't had this kind of thing pushed at them before? They're just like Catholics being grilled about the Inquisition; they expect it and it won't have any effect on them.

Imagine going up to a Christian and trying to bombard him with examples of bad deeds committed by other christians or even high-ranking church leaders and evangelists over the years. This is not really a hypothetical; this approach has been tried for years, and it never seems to work. Hell, look at Catholics; you can even get them to agree that the church leadership is fucked up and has done all kinds of bad things, but they still go! They even continue to donate money.

[Warsie]

So? Do you honestly think Scientologists haven't had this kind of thing pushed at them before?

AFAIK, no. At least not at this scale and size and with the media attention, social pressure, etc. Are the people who run xenu.net and the like aggressive against scientology (as in insulting, etc) or not?

They're just like Catholics being grilled about the Inquisition; they expect it and it won't have any effect on them.

Anonymous is trying to go around those buzz words, they're specifically focusing on trying to not do the expected.

Imagine going up to a Christian and trying to bombard him with examples of bad deeds committed by other christians or even high-ranking church leaders and evangelists over the years. This is not really a hypothetical; this approach has been tried for years, and it never seems to work.

Hasn't it helped to increase the ranks of Unitarians, Epispocals and the like and others who left the church or became disgusted, or those who neve went back to church after their childhood and such?

Hell, look at Catholics; you can even get them to agree that the church leadership is fucked up and has done all kinds of bad things, but they still go! They even continue to donate money.

Well Martin Luther's actions, the secessionism of the Protestants and the like helped at least somewhat to force reforms; that is what Anon is trying to achieve. So it has worked...somewhat

[Warsie]

At the very least, the bleeding of resources and the like could force the church to tax its' members more and result in 'losing the base' due to costs and the like, forcing change from withing.

At least that is (some of )anon's strategy based off partyvan.info

[CaptainChewbacca]

Don't look now, but Anonymous is in Newsweek. A fairly decent article summarizing what's happened so far.

Also interesting is this article, where Jews are suing the IRS to deduct religious instruction costs the same way Scientologists do. I have a feeling that Scientology's special exemption in that regard is soon going to be revoked.

[Superman]

Don't look now, but Anonymous is in Newsweek. A fairly decent article summarizing what's happened so far.

Also interesting is this article, where Jews are suing the IRS to deduct religious instruction costs the same way Scientologists do. I have a feeling that Scientology's special exemption in that regard is soon going to be revoked.

This whole situation is fascinating as hell. I'm amazed that the IRS and the Scientologists have such a nice little agreement there, especially when the justice department has historically had a field day with certain Scientologists. And I bet you're right, they're about to say buh bye to that ridiculous deduction.

[General Zod]

Don't look now, but Anonymous is in Newsweek. A fairly decent article summarizing what's happened so far.

Also interesting is this article, where Jews are suing the IRS to deduct religious instruction costs the same way Scientologists do. I have a feeling that Scientology's special exemption in that regard is soon going to be revoked.

They even got a stealth meme in!

And on Feb. 10, Anonymous--which one member estimates to comprise 9,000 people

[Superman]

To be fair, he estimates the number at 9,000 because each member who is morbidly obese counts as 3.

[Winston Blake]

They even got a stealth meme in!

And another:

One South Carolina-based member in her mid-20s (who asked to remain anonymous for fear of retribution) says the group no longer condones the illegal hacking or spamming it had engaged in previously. "We're trying really hard to prove to the church and the rest of the public that we're very serious about this movement, and we're not just a bunch of hackers on steroids," says the woman, who has never been a Scientologist.

[Warsie]

They even got a stealth meme in!

And on Feb. 10, Anonymous--which one member estimates to comprise 9,000 people

Yeah, when I saw that yesterday I fuckin' LOLed. I was like haha news media and shit...

Winston Blake, true as well....